Regular City Council Meeting May 5, 2026

0:00:59That's everything.

0:01:01update.

0:01:07teleconference and public comment instructions. Madam City Clerk. Thank you, Mayor. This hybrid meeting provides an option to participate in person or via Zoom with closed captions available.

0:01:18Meetings of the City Council are subject to the Brown Act and are held for the purpose of conducting city business. The Brown Act ensures the public's right to be heard, and while Council may not respond to your comments directly, your comments will be heard prior to Council taking action.

0:01:32For members of the public who wish to provide oral testimony, the Mayor will announce the time for public comments on each applicable item. A request to speak can be submitted to the City Clerk by completing a speaker card, by selecting the raise hand feature on Zoom, or by dialing star 9 if calling in by phone. In-person speakers will always be called first.

0:01:52The Council's adopted rules of order and procedures specify that public speakers address the City Council in an orderly and respectful manner, proceed their comments with their name and city of residence, and be respectful of time limits.

0:02:03Time may not be yielded from one speaker to another, and disruptive behavior, such as speaking out of turn, approaching the dais or podium without consent, is prohibited.

0:02:13We ask that everyone be respectful in observing these rules so that all speakers feel comfortable providing their comments. Thank you, Mary, that concludes my instructions.

0:02:20Thank you very much. We'll now go to City Manager Karen Pincus. Karen.

0:02:24Thank you, Your Honor. I just wanted to make an announcement that this week is Public Service Recognition Week.

0:02:33And I want to give a real big shout out to all those who work in public service. Those of us who work in public service are career professionals who serve the people every day in every community. And as your city manager, I've worked here almost 25 years here in El Cerrito. I care deeply about my work and my constitutional oath to serve the public good.

0:02:53During Public Service Recognition Week, I am grateful to work alongside our talented and dedicated public service workers in every city department who remain committed to serving our El Cerrito community through every challenge we face.

0:03:06During this Public Service Recognition Week, it is more important than ever to recognize the hard work and resilience of public service at all levels of government who took an oath to serve the American people, regardless of administration.

0:03:19And I encourage everyone to

0:03:21shout out and thank the public service professionals that you see working in our community every day, whether it's here at the city, over at the DMV, the county health department that we just heard from in our prior meeting, or our emergency and first responders. Public service professionals across federal, state, and local governments work behind the scenes to keep our communities running smoothly.

0:03:40So the next time you turn on your tap, drive on a road, walk on a sidewalk, receive timely emergency services, remember, there are dedicated public service professionals making that possible.

0:03:51And I'll just say I firmly believe that working in the public sector is the most important work that one can do, and I'm proud to work with such an amazing public service team here in El Cerrito. They've shown time and again how much they care about our community and want to make people's lives better. So thank you to the El Cerrito staff team, thank you to all of our colleagues and levels of government across

0:04:11the nation.

0:04:12I'm proud to work alongside of you and to serve in our mission to serve our diverse community by providing exceptional services that create a safe and resilient future for all. Thank you.

0:04:23Thank you very much. Do we have any, updates from the City Council? We'll start with Councilmember Motelama.

0:04:31Thank you, Mayor. I just want to thank, Recreation Director Chris Jones for, the event on Saturday. It was a small one, but fun, to open the Emery G. Weed III pool. So, the pool is now open. Thank you.

0:04:50Do you have?

0:04:51Yes, Councilmembers. I, thank you.

0:04:55Last Tuesday, I hosted or moderated a discussion hosted by the El Srio Democratic Club about the… about Measure C, and I want to thank Councilmember Montyama

0:05:05for being present and stepping up. One of the questions posed was about the senior exemption, and

0:05:11You know, it's a hot topic and hot issue, and…

0:05:13Councilmember Rontiano was very helpful in clarifying what the City Council had done, and steps taken, and what it all involved. So, thank you.

0:05:22And also, I would add to that there… my understanding is that the League of Women Voters will host a similar

0:05:28discussion, maybe there's maybe more debate, like, I don't think they've set a date yet, but they are definitely tentatively planning on doing so.

0:05:36Great. Anyone else?

0:05:39I wanted to say that, on Saturday, I did give that mayoral proclamation.

0:05:46Along with, Councilmember Cassanis, we, handed that over to, Tepu Tolku.

0:05:54who is a former El Cerrito resident who moved here back in 1983. He was one of the first Tibetan Americans to immigrate here.

0:06:05And, lived in El Cerrito for many, many years. He recently retired. He is at the Llama level of,

0:06:14Tibetan Buddhism, and is well connected and a dear colleague and friend, to the Dalai Lama, and he was the one that introduced me.

0:06:27To, members of the staff and the Dalai Lama when he visited Berkeley, years ago, many years ago. So, again, I want to wish, Taputoku, congratulations on his, long-time,

0:06:42service to Community of El Cerrito. I don't know if you remember him, but he worked at,

0:06:49the coffee shop at the El Cerrito Plaza, and he also worked at,

0:06:54several restaurants there at the plaza, so he was well known to the community, and now you see a very large Tibetan-American community who have immigrated, here, to the U.S. and are, calling West County, and that's really the home.

0:07:11Do you want to add? It was probably the same visit, roughly maybe 20 years ago, when Madonna was here. I remember going to hear him speak at the Greek theater in Berkeley, and one thing I remember is that he came onto the stage and put on a cow hat.

0:07:24And then, a few days later, went to Stanford and put on a Stanford hat.

0:07:29I do remember that visit.

0:07:32It is almost 6.15. I want to say, before we start this meeting at 6.15,

0:07:41We have a very full agenda this evening.

0:07:46And I expect significant Amount of public participation.

0:07:52And, and we welcome that. But in order to make sure we are able to get through all of the business on this long agenda this evening, I am setting the time limit for Speaker to 90 seconds for the duration of tonight's meeting.

0:08:09So again, It will be 90 seconds per speaker.

0:08:15And, we're gonna start this now, and this is our first public hearing on

0:08:21A transition to district-based elections.

0:08:26And we're going to conduct the first public hearing regarding transition to district-based election for city council members, including

0:08:34sequencing of the election and consideration of the composition of the districts in accordance with Election Code Section 100

0:08:45And providing direction on number of districts and method of election.

0:08:51For mayor.

0:08:53Sky Woodruff, 615? Looks like we're here on top. You, you, you, you timed it perfectly. Mary got us to exactly 615. Good evening, I am Sky Woodruff, your City Attorney.

0:09:07I am not going to provide the full preface that I did at the last meeting, but I did want to, before going through the presentation, just

0:09:18provide a little bit of additional information. Maybe there are members of the public who are coming to this issue for the first time, and it's not on the slide, so I just did want to make sure that the community understands that this is not an item that is being driven by members of the City Council.

0:09:35It is not a staff-driven item. This is, a matter that has come before Council as a result of a threat of litigation that was received, by the City.

0:09:46from a law firm representing a member… a resident of El Cerrito who remains anonymous.

0:09:54The, letter stated that the… it was the belief of, this law firm, that based on a statistical analysis that they had… had prepared, that, there is racially polarized voting in El Cerrito, which, under the California Voting Rights Act.

0:10:11Puts the city at risk of, potential attorney's fees and litigation costs, if it turns out that that, is true.

0:10:22The city obtained… retained, its own,

0:10:27Researcher, who you will be hearing from tonight, to perform an independent analysis of the same issue.

0:10:34Although, the city's retained demographer,

0:10:39came to slightly different conclusions. They did confirm that in some races, there, is evidence that would support a conclusion of racially polarized voting, which is a defined term in the California Voting Rights Act.

0:10:56However, it's simply statistically likely and not something that is proven, and I think that the City Council at the previous meeting, expressed their strong views about the diversity of the history of the City Council and their views on the merits of this case.

0:11:16Nevertheless, because, there… if…

0:11:20In the event that, the city decided not to move forward with the process that I'll be discussing shortly, and instead decided to litigate the matter, and lost, as every city in California has so far that has attempted to fight this.

0:11:34It would not only have to pay for its own cost of defense, it would be liable for its, the attorney's fees of the plaintiff.

0:11:42And would still have to go through this exact same process.

0:11:47So therefore, as a risk mitigation measure, the City Council has decided to embark on this process of transitioning to district-based elections. And as you'll be hearing tonight, that there is, it is a

0:12:01statutorily, mandated process, and with a short timeline.

0:12:08For reasons that I'll be covering. And this is the first public hearing in that process. And with that, I will, begin, just going through the slides. Council and many members of the public have seen a version of this before.

0:12:21Once I've concluded, I'll be handing over to Paul Mitchell from Redistricting Partners to talk in much more detail, about, the Voting Rights Act and this districting process. Will Provost is going to cover, some matters, and then we'll come… we'll bring it to a conclusion.

0:12:39So…

0:12:47Let's see if my clicker will work.

0:12:50Can you advance the slide? Thank you. All right, thank you. So, currently, El Cerrito uses an election system called At-Large Elections, which means every member of city council is elected, by the city as a whole, and voters can vote, on any city council member.

0:13:09As I mentioned, on March 17th, the city received a demand letter, claiming that the city's at-large election system is racially polarized and violates the California Voting Rights Act.

0:13:21On April 21st, the Council adopted a resolution of intent, to transition to district-based elections.

0:13:29As I said, we'll get into much more detail about this, but very briefly, the CBRA prohibits an at-large election system that impairs the ability of a protected class to elect candidates of its choice or its ability to influence the outcome of an election.

0:13:44A violation is established if racially polarized voting and dilution occurs in elections or other matters submitted to voters.

0:13:52As I sort of alluded to, cities across the state have received similar letters, in the last 10 years. The number of cities that have transitioned from at-large to, district-based elections counts in the hundreds.

0:14:07And every legal challenge, that has been filed by a city to defend itself against such a claim so far has been unsuccessful. There are still pending cases.

0:14:16But thus far, no city has been successful in a defense of one of these cases.

0:14:23The legislature has, however, provided a process that's referred to as the Safe Harbor Process, that allows the city to transition to, district-based elections and significantly minimize, the legal costs involved.

0:14:37The City Council must adopt a resolution of intention within 45 days of receiving a demand letter, which this City Council did on April 21st.

0:14:47It must approve an ordinance establishing district-based elections within 90 days of the resolution of intention.

0:14:54A plaintiff may, agree to extend any of these timelines,

0:15:03And although my office was in communication with the law firm representing the anonymous El Cerrito voter in this matter, that individual was unwilling to grant any extensions.

0:15:14And therefore, we are in a sprint to get through this entire process, within 90 days. We're currently planning to conclude this process, July 21st.

0:15:25But if the City Council completes this process within the 90 days allowed, it caps the attorney's fees that must be paid to the potential plaintiff's attorney at what is now about $38,000 to $40,000, because it's an amount that's adjusted for inflation.

0:15:41So, City Council, as I said, has initiated this process. It is a very quick process, and, there are… there are…

0:15:50a minimum of 5 required public hearings. This is the first one, and Paul Mitchell from Redistricting Partners is now going to provide you with an in-depth presentation about what the districting process actually entails.

0:16:07Yeah, give it a try.

0:16:14Welcome, Paul.

0:16:15Thank you for having me. I'm Paul Mitchell, I'm the owner of Redistricting Partners. We're a firm that has worked in California and nationally on nonpartisan redistricting with a focus on the California Voting Rights Act, where we've worked with dozens of agencies from community college districts, cities, water boards, school boards, to convert

0:16:33Particularly under this, what is for us, relatively new safe harbor provisions over the last few years.

0:16:40I'm gonna cover a number of things. This is what we kind of call our 101, so it's, you know, this is a community college introductory course in redistricting, essentially, in the next, 20 or 30 minutes.

0:16:51I'm gonna cover the CBRA, discuss the difference between districting and redistricting.

0:16:57Talk about the Voting Rights Act and what gerrymandering is.

0:17:01Go through the…

0:17:03traditional required criteria and the kind of mechanics of the districting process, and then I'll finish off by going over your own census data and then the upcoming hearings and what we should be expecting.

0:17:16This presentation is going to get repeated at each meeting, but in smaller and smaller versions. Because for many people who are here, they're going to learn a lot about this process, but then we might have people who only show up after the maps are drawn, or only show up for the final hearing, so we want to still be able to bring everybody kind of up to speed.

0:17:36So, first off, the California Voting Rights Act can only see agencies that are in an at-large election system. It only affects at-large election systems. And it defines an at-large election system as anything but

0:17:51Single districts electing single members.

0:17:54So once you're in a districted system where you have 4 or 5 districts each electing one council member, it's almost like the CVRA is…

0:18:02is blind to you.

0:18:04This is not like the Federal Voting Rights Act that might cover a bunch of things. You know, we think about Federal Voting Rights Act and the case in the Supreme Court recently, and we think about redistricting, but the Federal Voting Rights Act also governs how

0:18:16ballots are designed, and where precincts go, and language access, and all these other things. But the California Voting Rights Act is simply this one issue. It's just about districts, and once you're in districts, you're kind of invisible to the CVRA.

0:18:31At-large is, like I said, defined as anything but single-member districts.

0:18:36The other term that was used was racially polarized voting.

0:18:40And that is, at the most broad sense, a difference in voting patterns that can be identified as having a racial component.

0:18:47And so, if people have questions about that, we can discuss that.

0:18:52So, the California Voting Rights Act, like I said, only does this one thing. The Federal Voting Rights Act

0:18:59talks about the idea of districts with regards to majority-minority districts, and we've seen this recent Supreme Court case, which really gave a significant cut to the Federal Voting Rights Act in what's called Section 2.

0:19:13The other thing that was mentioned is that this process of going to districts is made easier through this safe harbor provision that allows us to do this process if we do it promptly and using the required criteria.

0:19:25Now, I wanted to cover what this does change and what it doesn't change.

0:19:30What it does change is who can run for a specific office.

0:19:35Because you have to live in a district to run for that office. And who can vote for that office? Because only the people in that district vote.

0:19:43There are, believe it or not, agencies where they would have districts where you have to live in the district.

0:19:48But the whole agency votes?

0:19:50So this is different. You're gonna live in the district, and you're gonna vote from that district.

0:19:55What it doesn't define is how you govern yourselves.

0:19:59So…

0:20:00I've been to city councils who've said, like, hey, we have this citywide view, and I really want to make… maintain that citywide view. And that is up to your discretion. Once you get elected to council.

0:20:11What district you're in doesn't have to matter.

0:20:14I've been to other cities, like in Sacramento, and you go to the Sacramento City Council, and you go to visit their offices, and on the door, it would say what neighborhoods they represent.

0:20:23Or I've seen council members who put on their business cards what neighborhoods they represent. It's almost like they're really pushing hard on that idea of, I represent this local community within my city, where other cities really focus on, we represent the city as a whole. And that's a cultural thing that you can work on. The CBRA doesn't have anything really to do with that.

0:20:44It also doesn't impact how services are provided.

0:20:47it doesn't mean that you can't go to the, you know, the film screening in the park in somebody else's council district because you live in another council district. So it doesn't mean that it's changing how the public interacts with services.

0:21:02Now…

0:21:04when you are drawing districts, it's important to follow criteria that are set up through a number of Supreme Court cases, and these are things that have not been affected by the most recent Supreme Court decision.

0:21:19The first is that we want to make sure that districts are, giving equal representation.

0:21:25and equal voting power. And these are two different things. Representation means that I can go to my council member.

0:21:33And that I have equal access to my council member, as somebody who lives on the other side of town has to their council member. And having equally sized districts helps maintain that.

0:21:42The other is voting power, meaning that I get to vote for my council member, and somebody on the other side of town gets to vote for their council member, and our votes are relatively equal.

0:21:51I did do a redistricting once for a community college district that hadn't redistricted in 50 years.

0:21:57And they had one district that had 12,000 people, another district that had 100,000 people.

0:22:05So, essentially, it was an 8 to 1… difference.

0:22:09So the person in the 12,000-person district literally had 8 times more voting power, 8 times more representative power, because they were in a smaller district than somebody whose voting power was diluted in the 100,000 person district.

0:22:20So… Keeping districts equal is kind of a core component of that.

0:22:25Now, we've heard a lot about these two things, Section 2 and Section 5 of the Federal Voting Rights Act.

0:22:31Section 2, which largely talks about majority-minority districts and VRA seats as they talk about it.

0:22:38That language, based on that most recent Supreme Court decision, is going to be kind of figured out what that decision means, but it's been severely weakened.

0:22:47Section 5 was a process that there were a number of counties in California.

0:22:51that were under Section 5, and every time they printed a ballot, or moved a polling place, or changed district lines, they had to have the federal government approve it.

0:23:00It was like they were on… under constant, like, supervision from the federal government for their election laws. Section 5 was also stripped away by the Supreme Court about 15 years ago, and

0:23:12It would take an act of Congress to reinstate these… these laws.

0:23:17The California Voting Rights Act, like I said, is only this one specific thing.

0:23:22Now.

0:23:23Sometimes I get in an Uber, and you get a talkative Uber, and they want to know what you do for a living, and I say something like redistricting, and they say, oh, you do gerrymandering.

0:23:31Now, there's a difference. Redistricting is the process of drawing boundaries, and there's a lot of criteria, and in California, we follow the Fair Maps Act process, and it's… it's very white-hat redistricting. But gerrymandering comes historically from this over 200 years ago.

0:23:48Governor Gary, so it's technically gerrymandering, if you want to be a real nerd. But Governor Gary…

0:23:55implemented a plan that was not even his plan for the districts, it was the State Senate's plan for the districts.

0:24:02And he got… this cartoon was done in the newspaper, and it became known as the gerrymander.

0:24:10Gary was a signer of the Declaration of Independence. He was a former vice president. Nobody remembers any of that, because he's just known for the gerrymandering process.

0:24:21Now, gerrymandering like that isn't done

0:24:25well, maybe it is nowadays done. But this is… if you were to take a, a political science course, and somebody was to, say, do a little experiment to show how gerrymandering works, this is a very simple.

0:24:39graphic that shows an area with these 5 yellow triangles and the 4 green triangles. And if I gave everybody in the room, you know, 5 seconds to draw 3 districts, they'd probably draw something like that.

0:24:53They draw 3 rows or 3 columns to place those in districts, and no matter what you do.

0:24:58You're gonna create districts where you have one district that is majority yellow, a second one that's majority yellow, and the third one that's majority green, creating a proportional representation where you have two yellow districts and two green districts.

0:25:13Now, if somebody was really savvy, and they wanted to do something to bolster the Yellow District's power.

0:25:22They could draw something like this.

0:25:25Or this is bolstering the green district's power. So you're… you're creating two districts that are majority green and one that's majority yellow.

0:25:32So you're essentially dividing up those yellow areas to create advantage for the minority group.

0:25:39So…

0:25:40When we talk about redistricting and gerrymandering, everybody thinks about partisan redistricting, because that's especially what's being talked about a lot right now around the country.

0:25:48And that is one of the types of redistricting, and it's one of the types of redistricting that's prohibited in this process. We cannot draw districts that advantage or disadvantage a political party.

0:25:58The second kind of redistricting is racial gerrymandering.

0:26:02That is the type of gerrymandering that has been kind of under assault from this most recent Supreme Court case, but it is largely still, we hope, prohibited to draw districts that

0:26:14purposefully, Dilute the minority voting power in areas.

0:26:19The third kind that is very common is called incumbent gerrymandering.

0:26:23And that is where you draw a district to, you know, you've got a normal-looking district that there's, like, this diving board off the side of it for no reason. You realize at the end of the diving board is where the incumbent lives.

0:26:34Or we actually saw one in California where there was a district that came down the freeway, and it jumped over the freeway to grab the incumbent's house.

0:26:43In, one city in Southern California where we went and did a redistricting, we saw a census block in the middle of the city with a split in three pieces.

0:26:52Which you're not supposed to do in redistricting, you're not supposed to split census blocks.

0:26:57Yet, they did that, and we found out that that was an apartment complex that 3 of the council members lived in.

0:27:03So, a lot of this stuff, it's not… it is prohibited. I don't know where the council members live. We will not be able to draw districts that are drawn with the intent of preserving incumbents, or candidates, or any individual.

0:27:17If somebody were to come up to the microphone and say, here's my house, and I'm a community of interest, I want my house to be in this district because I want to run for city council, that's not a legitimate criteria under the Fair Maps Act.

0:27:32So, the criteria that are legitimate, that we need to follow, and this isn't a ranked order, but it's not… it is not fixed ranks. It's not like you have to 100% do the first one before you can go to the second one. We just have to kind of do these in order.

0:27:46Districts need to be equal sized.

0:27:49Now, we're gonna be using equal size of population.

0:27:53Based on the 2020 U.S. Census.

0:27:57If we were doing this redistricting in 2029, we'd still be doing the 2020 U.S. Census, because that's the data we use for population of a district.

0:28:04And, districts have to be equal, but not like congressional districts, where it's like a one-person deviation. These have to be equal where the largest district and the smallest district are no more than 10% apart from each other.

0:28:18Districts need to be contiguous.

0:28:20Which means that they have to be whole parts.

0:28:23There is a… Different sometimes between contiguous and, like, by…

0:28:31a map when you're looking at it from a satellite photo, you're saying, oh, this is contiguous, it's one piece, versus what sometimes can be functionally contiguous. Let's say somebody drew a district, and they said, oh, this is a perfect district, and you came in and said, well, it's not a perfect district because you really can't get from this side of the district to the other side of the district.

0:28:48Because there's a highway, or a river, or a mountain. So, one of the slides I'll show, there's an idea of the, you know, a district that could be drawn, but for the fact that it's being split in half by a geographical feature.

0:29:03This is an example of a city kind of in this area, in Northern California, a Bay Area city.

0:29:10Where they attempted to draw this district, but the courts found this purple seat was not contiguous.

0:29:16It had 3 not-touching pieces.

0:29:19And so they had to redraw these districts.

0:29:23And this is a district, this is Davis, where I…

0:29:29that when you drive from here to Sacramento.

0:29:32You see the exit for Richards.

0:29:34And then you see the exit for Mace.

0:29:36When you first hit Davis on the 80, it's at the Richards exit, and when you're leaving Davis, it's the Mesa exit.

0:29:42And… Other than those two roads, you can't get from one side of Davis to the other.

0:29:49And so there was an attempt at one point to draw the districts in Davis all to be columns.

0:29:54But the reality we found is if you did that, you would have two sides of a district that couldn't get to each other without leaving the district to go either to Richards to go under the freeway, or Mace to go over the freeway.

0:30:05So, this is a district where that yellow highlighted area is a…

0:30:11area that makes the non-contiguity, if you were to try to draw a district any other way, you couldn't do it.

0:30:17Maintaining communities of interest is…

0:30:20kind of the most fun part of the process. It's also the most kind of art of redistricting, because what we're talking about is

0:30:28Subjective. It's what are the communities that want to be preserved and have their voice enhanced by the districting process.

0:30:38And, it is kind of an open-ended, inclusive process. It can include these kind of minority groups if there is a community of interest associated with that.

0:30:52Let's talk about this for a second, how this… how these communities of interest

0:30:56Functionally happen, what we want to see from the community in defining these.

0:31:00Communities of interest should meet three criteria.

0:31:04The first criteria is… You can give it a name.

0:31:08You can say, my community of interest is skateboarders.

0:31:12My community of interest is senior citizens. My community of interest is the college town. My community of interest is the environmental people. My community of interest is the apartment renters, or the homeowners. So you have a name you can associate with it.

0:31:27The second thing you want to have is you want it to be mappable.

0:31:32I could name, as a community of interest, people who are left-handed.

0:31:35But unless you've, like, sequestered them to one part of the city, I can't really map where the left-handed people are being put.

0:31:41So there are things like that where you don't have an ability to map it, and you just have to say, thank you, I understand, but until we know how to map that area, it really doesn't help in the districting process. It might help in other parts of your city council work, but not in the districting process.

0:31:55And the third thing we want to see is it has a connection to the policymaking of the body that's being redistricted.

0:32:02We did a redistricting in Northern California where the almond growers came and identified their community of interest, and the walnut growers came and said, don't draw us in with the almond people.

0:32:11We've done a redistricting where the people at the higher elevation said, our water rates are higher, we want a separate district, and the people in the lower said, our water rates are lower, we don't want to be drawn in with the people at the higher elevation.

0:32:25I don't think you've probably had a city council action in recent years where people related to different kinds of trees

0:32:34were arguing about a policy where you had to come in and intercede. I don't think you probably had a fight that had to do with differential pricing of city services based on how somebody's elevation is of their home.

0:32:47But in different agencies, you have different things that become the community of interest. So, if somebody comes to you, and they're skateboard people.

0:32:54You might think immediately, like, that's silly. Skateboard people isn't a community of interest, that we can meet all those three criteria. But maybe the skateboard people really like this one skate park that they want to do, and that skate park is on this one side of town.

0:33:07And that's where they have been getting tickets from the police for skateboarding outside, or skateboarding whatever.

0:33:12And you can say, oh, well, then now that actually does meet all three criteria. It might be a…

0:33:18different one than you've usually thought of, but pickleball people I've seen as a community of interest.

0:33:24The pickleball courts, the people who like it, that like it as a amenity, right?

0:33:30Versus the people who see it as a harm, because of the loud noise, right?

0:33:35So, that's all the things that we'll talk about in terms of communities of interest, and it's the most fun and interesting part of the process.

0:33:44The other thing is that districts should be easily identifiable and follow understandable natural boundaries and so on, like freeways, rivers.

0:33:52things that kind of make sense to people. There is this kind of thing sometimes when you do a districting, where people see the districts, and immediately, like, a light comes on, they're like, oh…

0:34:01I see, like, this side of Napa is different than that side of Napa, or this side of Davis is where the college students go to this thing, and this side of the city is more like the downtown side of the city. So, you'll see people kind of think, like, oh, that makes sense to me, and that's kind of one of the criteria.

0:34:16And the final one here is that you want to keep districts compact.

0:34:20Which is… In some states, there's a bunch of mathematical stuff about what compactness is.

0:34:27In California, the compactness criteria, like our legislature's so good at doing, is just like a word salad.

0:34:35And the word salad is a district

0:34:38Is not compact if it bypasses nearby population to capture faraway population.

0:34:44Which is, like, one of those things you have to, like, see it written and actually, like, try to figure out what that sentence means.

0:34:49What that sentence really means is that if I'm drawing a district, and I were to draw from me to sky.

0:34:56and then go over to Gabriel, and then Carolyn, and we've bypassed other nearby population to go get the faraway population, then it's not compact.

0:35:05And so, as we're looking at districts, we might ask ourselves that question.

0:35:09Is it bypassing nearby population to get faraway population?

0:35:13Now.

0:35:14If Rebecca and Lisa and Karen were the skateboarding community that we were trying to keep in a community of interest as a district, and me and Sky and Gabriel and Carolyn were the pickleball community that wanted a community of interest.

0:35:27It actually would be a higher criteria.

0:35:31In terms of that rank criteria.

0:35:34The community of interest was higher than compactness, so we can violate compactness if it's for a better cause, for a higher rank criteria.

0:35:44This is a classically not compact district city of Martinez.

0:35:49This districting was the reason we have the Fair Maps Act.

0:35:53This districting was called a parody of the original gerrymandering.

0:35:57And this districting was drawn because in the thinnest necks of districts 2, 3, 1, and 4,

0:36:04It's amazing there's only four districts there. In the next, at the top there, there were all four council members lived within, like.

0:36:11you know, a third of a mile of each other. And so they drew all three districts like this.

0:36:17And, that was seen as such a gross gerrymander that the state law couldn't actually outlaw, couldn't prohibit it, that they created all these criteria, and the first redistricting that was done post the Fair Maps Act was one we did that looks like this.

0:36:32So I wasn't responsible for the one on the left, but we were responsible for the one on the right, which has, if you look at it.

0:36:38compact lines. The swishy line under 2 and 1 is the freeway. You've got the downtown area, separate from, like, more of the, remote rural area in the city of Martinez. You've got a lot of other communities of interest that are recognized in this process, and that's kind of the difference between a

0:36:56gerrymandered map and a, Fair Mapsack map.

0:37:01So… We talked about those things that are the criteria, there's also process.

0:37:06So,

0:37:08Again, in the criteria, I mentioned that we're not going to look at incumbents or candidates, no political advantage.

0:37:14The process, we're gonna have a number of hearings.

0:37:17Five hearings is the requirement.

0:37:20And we're gonna encourage public engagement in the process.

0:37:24And then we're also going to have all the information, this hearing, this slide deck, any maps that are drawn, any public submissions, any public comments, all being put on a website that's going to stay on the city's website for 10 years.

0:37:38You'll be doing another redistricting in…

0:37:426 years or 4 years, so that'll be, replaced at some point by the next redistricting website, but that's something that's going to be available online.

0:37:52So next, I'm going to transition in talking about more of the mechanics of the process, and then I think we'll have you have some discussion, and I can answer some questions afterwards.

0:38:03So… If you say to a person who's fairly well educated in political science, and you say the census.

0:38:12Most of them think the census is, like, a one thing.

0:38:16And it's that one thing that happens every 10 years where we find out how many people there are in the country, and how many people there are in every city, and it's based on where somebody laid their head on a pillow on April 1st, you know, 2020.

0:38:30Nor 2010.

0:38:33But the census is actually multiple things.

0:38:36It can be… Two different types of geography and data.

0:38:43So the geography is the… think of, like, a honeycomb in the honey.

0:38:48The geography is like the honeycomb.

0:38:51And then the honey is the data. The honeycomb defines the area.

0:38:56And the data that goes into it is how many people live there.

0:39:00Now, the data comes in two forms.

0:39:03The data can be point in time, that decennial dense census data of exactly how many people lived in one place at one point.

0:39:10Or… There's actually census work being done year-round throughout the decade.

0:39:16And it can be data that's averages.

0:39:19So it says, over the last 3 years, on average, there's been this many people in this one little honeycomb.

0:39:24So, we're gonna deal with data that's point-in-time, one time, and we're gonna deal with data that's averaged and involves a lot of math, and margins of error, and all that kind of stuff.

0:39:37The geography is census blocks.

0:39:42They start with blocks, which is the smallest unit, and multiple blocks make block groups, and multiple block groups make sense as tracts. It's not T-R-A-C-K, it's T-R-A-C-T-S, so tracts.

0:39:55The very, very small census blocks, the more moderately-sized census block groups, and the larger census tracts.

0:40:02So this mess is all tiny little, teeny, teeny, teeny census blocks. Some have 20 people in them, some have 0 people in them, some have 100 people in them.

0:40:12This map gets to be a little bit easier to look at when you see this. I kind of like my shoulders, the stress drops out of my shoulders, and it's like a little breath of fresh air to see something that's a little bit more moderately sized. Census block groups have 1,000, 2,000 people in them, or so on.

0:40:29And then census tracts can be really big, 5, 6, 10,000 people. Census tracts are larger. We'll use all three of these geographies throughout the process of drawing lines, and the data we get comes in different geographies.

0:40:42The decennial census data?

0:40:45Comes in that smallest unit, the block.

0:40:49And so we're going to be looking at data that's from April 1st, 2020.

0:40:54There's one note about that data, is that we have to use a data set from UC Berkeley that adjusts for prison population.

0:41:02So if your city's population in the census is… 19,996.

0:41:11But the census has identified 4 people.

0:41:13who were in prison in Kern County, but their last known residence was in the city.

0:41:19They will be reallocated to the census blocks that they were living in prior to being arrested.

0:41:24And it has to do with equity, because what ends up happening is if you don't do that, then you end up counting

0:41:30tens of thousands of prisoners in, like, a rural area in Bakersfield, giving them additional political power

0:41:37When it's really not political power that comes from the population of the communities, it's population that is there because of a prison.

0:41:44So…

0:41:45It is a nuanced thing, but it doesn't really affect you to a great deal, it only affects you in kind of growing your city population a tiny, tiny bit.

0:41:54The American Community Survey is that… is that ongoing longitudinal study.

0:42:00that asks way more questions. If you see a data set that somebody calls census data that says how many renters there are, or what the average college-going rate is, that census data wasn't in the decennial census. That census data is an average data set from the American Community Survey.

0:42:17One of the things that that census data provides that's very important is the citizen voting age population, which is a proxy for eligible voters, people over 18 and citizens. We don't have a citizenship question on the decennial census, but there is a citizenship question on the American Community Survey, and there always has been.

0:42:35Now, in terms of the city, this is the physical geography of the city.

0:42:39We're gonna want to double, triple check with the city GIS and make sure that there isn't any tiny little line displacement or anything like that, or any little annexation that happened that maybe the U.S. Census wasn't aware of. But this is the… what we're currently using is the city population… or is the city geography.

0:42:58And this is the two different data sets.

0:43:01The first honey in the honeycomb was that decennial point-in-time U.S. Census data from April 1st, 2020, and that's what's in the first set of data.

0:43:10So, 26,000 people.

0:43:15Of those 26,000 people, you can see the ethnic breakdown of those populations.

0:43:21The second set of data is that averaging, that population average based on the ongoing surveys from the American Community Survey, and that says that of those 26,000 people, 18,402 of those people are over 18 in citizens.

0:43:39And then it gives the ethnic breakdown for those populations, ethnic and racial breakdown.

0:43:44When we do districts where it says El Cerrito and it's one column.

0:43:51When we actually see maps of a district, we'll have columns for each district.

0:43:55And so you'll be able to see that in each page of a districting plan will have the breakdown of these data sets in it.

0:44:03Now, The five hearings that we have here are the 5 required hearings.

0:44:10real easy way to think about this is you're gonna have two hearings that are like this, where I present, the community comes up and talks, we hear about communities of interest, you get engaged, and you start to say your thoughts about what you might want to see in districts, but we're not drawing maps.

0:44:28We'll set up tools for the public to draw maps, but you, as the council members, and I, will not be drawing maps yet. First two hearings are for the community to get a head start.

0:44:37The third hearing is the first time we'll see the maps, and that's scheduled right now for June 9th.

0:44:44The fourth hearing is where we'll see revisions to those maps that were asked for by the Council or the public.

0:44:51And then the fifth hearing is a hearing to vote on the maps.

0:44:56So in a way, the first two hearings are really important to get that public awareness and engagement.

0:45:02The third hearing is really important for the public to first time get eyeballs on a map that you might be considering, and recommend changes.

0:45:10The fourth hearing is critical because at that hearing, you want to take all the maps you've been looking at and distill down to one map.

0:45:18That you're gonna agendize for the fifth hearing and vote on.

0:45:22Now, you might end up agendizing one map, or two maps, or three maps, but if you can agendize as few maps as possible to give the public an opportunity to weigh in on that final map.

0:45:33That generally provides the best ability for the public to engage, because if you agendize 15 maps, the public would have no idea what it is they're supposed to be looking at or paying attention to.

0:45:44And with that… I want to thank you, congratulations, you passed… Redistricting 101.

0:45:51Great.

0:45:53And thanks, Paul, and I'll take it over here from here. I just wanted to talk briefly about public outreach before we hand it off to the city attorney to conclude the conversation.

0:46:03Let me see here…

0:46:07There we go.

0:46:12Perfect. So, just to emphasize and build off what Paul said, we really want to emphasize as staff the importance of

0:46:18hearing from the community throughout this process. So, we want to be sure that the demographer, when drawing those district boundary lines, has substantial input from all communities across the city. And so, I'll talk more about it brief in the slides ahead.

0:46:34But those community of interest forms and hearing what neighborhoods are important to you to carve out and should be cohesive in districts, or it could be things like people that live on or near San Pablo Avenue and feel that they should have shared representation. Of course, ethnic groups, racial groups, language-based groups, but we want to hear from community members on what

0:46:52what neighborhoods or groups they think are most important for this district process. And we're excited to share, too, that there will be a mapping tool

0:47:01Where residents and community members can draw their own maps, and they can tell us what they think the maps will look like. And so we'll be launching that shortly.

0:47:09But as mentioned, there is a formal public hearing timeline, and this is an opportunity for… just to… to, have a public forum just like this one to announce that we're seeking, input from the community. We're seeking, community of interest forms, we're wanting people to come to our workshops, and that will happen over these coming meetings as discussed.

0:47:30In terms of public outreach, we already have launched our website, that's at elcerito.gov slash district, so anybody interested in learning more about the process, all of the information will be housed there.

0:47:40the background, every draft map that's created by our demographer, and actually every draft map that's drafted by just a resident that's interested in the process will be posted there for full transparency, in addition to the community of interest forms. All of them that are submitted will be posted there.

0:47:55Well, also, I mentioned the mapping tool, which we're excited to release as soon as this week, possibly pending the conversation tonight. But we'll also have paper-based options, so if people are uncomfortable with the software, they can draw a map with pen and paper, and we'll provide that. And so, too, with the community of interest forms. They'll be able to submit those analog, too.

0:48:15We do have community of work.

0:48:17community workshops coming up, but we know that some people might need assistance with the software, so actually next Tuesday will be our first one at 6 p.m, we're going to do that virtually, and that way we'll have a recording very early in this process posted on the website, where people can learn, here's how I draw a map, here's what this is all about, here's how I submit input, to try and solicit that.

0:48:36And then an in-person workshop on June 3rd.

0:48:40We'll be coupling that with tabling outreach around the community, including at Bike to Wherever Day. The community center will be meeting with

0:48:47for coffee and conversations with the seniors, and at the Fourth of July Festival, to name a few. And we are translating all key documents into both Spanish and Chinese, things like the FAQ, which is on the website, the community of interest form, and the instructions for the mapping tool will all be translated.

0:49:05And we're using a variety of other communications tools to try and reach out to residents. And what I'm excited to share is we just used… leveraged our Polco platform, actually. We released a survey just on Thursday and received, as of this morning, 600 responses, which, in my time working here is quite a lot. So there's a lot of engagement on this topic.

0:49:24I will say it's an informal poll and kind of underscore this is not a scientific survey, but it is a snapshot for us.

0:49:30And what we did is we asked, what would people prefer in terms of the council, the structure of the city council, which is a core question for you all, in terms of

0:49:39giving us direction to do five districts or four districts, which the city attorney will elaborate on. From the public outreach side, having clarity now will help as we communicate with members of the public, and so they know when they're drawing maps, they can draw just one. We don't have to say, draw a five district maps and draw four district map if we go down that route. So having clarity early on in the process would certainly help with community engagement.

0:50:02But having said that, from the SNAP poll we did with the PollCode tools, we did see, 61%, about 60%, seemed to support four districts with a general, directly elected mayor.

0:50:14Versus 25% in favor of 5 districts. You note that there's about 15% undecided or showing no preference at this time. They need more information. So that's significant, too.

0:50:26And then the second question we asked in just the two-question survey is, if there was a directly elected mayor, how long should the term be?

0:50:33And you can see there's not as clear of a preference there, maybe just a slight preference for 2 years, with 41% support versus 34% for 4 years, but it wasn't quite as clear as… as that first question.

0:50:46But we'll continue to… that's just a data point for you all, we'll continue to utilize all the tools at our suppo… at our disposal, all our city channels, and to try and get the word out and engage with the community on this topic.

0:50:58And so just as a last call to the community, anybody listening, we do want to say, submit community of interest forms, tell us what matters to you as these districts are being drawn. Really important for our demographer in terms of drawing the boundaries to know, you know, this is a cohesive neighborhood that should be kept together in any potential districts. We want to hear that.

0:51:16Use the mapping tool, we're gonna get that out ASAP and do a tutorial, as mentioned, next Tuesday. Please submit your own maps or reach out, and we're happy to help.

0:51:26And you could draw communities of interest, or draw suggested boundaries.

0:51:31attend one of our workshops, and yes, please do review the website. We'll continue to maintain it. As mentioned, it will be a repository for all things related to this process now and for the next 10 years. So, we're here as staff to answer any questions, but also pass it back to the City Attorney to walk through the direction we're hoping to seek tonight.

0:51:47Thank you.

0:51:53Thank you, Will.

0:51:54So, just wrapping up,

0:51:57as we've talked about, currently the city has an at-large election system with 5 City Council members elected by the community as a whole. The mayor is selected by the city council for a one-year term, but is selected from among the city council.

0:52:14The options, that are available to the City Council in transitioning to districts are two. As Will said, one is, to move to five districts.

0:52:23With one council member per district, it is required that the council member be, a resident of the district, and other… and voters within the district vote for, a candidate within the district only.

0:52:37Under the five-district system, we would continue the current process of the mayor being a city council member who is selected by the city council for a one-year term.

0:52:48The only other option available is, to move to four districts with a directly elected mayor. In this scenario, there would be four districts, one council member per district.

0:52:58But the mayor, could live anywhere in the city and would be… and would be voted on, by city voters at large.

0:53:06It's important to note, though, that the directly elected mayor, would be a member of the city council. This is not a transition to a strong mayor or other form of change in city government.

0:53:20where the mayor would have additional legislative or executive powers. The mayor would continue to be a member of council.

0:53:28There would be additional ceremonial, powers and,

0:53:34that would be associated with the position, but it would not be a fundamental change in the nature of city government. It would still be a city manager, city council form of government. The charter requires that, and it would require a charter amendment to make any changes to the role… the nature of the government and the role of the mayor in that city government.

0:53:54So what we're hoping to get, some initial direction from Council about tonight, is this…

0:54:00Choice between 5 districts or 4 districts with a directly elected mayor.

0:54:05As we talked about.

0:54:06The hope is to, get some council direction about this sooner rather than later in order to reduce the number of options that, members of the public will have to consider in, proposing potential maps.

0:54:21And… but I will say that the… the issue of the 2-year versus 4-year term for a directly elected mayor can wait until later in the process, because it has no effect on the drawing of the districts. It's something that we can… we can put in at the end, so Council and the public have more time to consider that. It is not…

0:54:40absolutely required that you direct us to go in the direction of five or four districts tonight. But we are hoping to get that direction at least by the conclusion of the second public hearing, so that members of the public

0:54:55Staff and yourselves have a clear understanding of what direction they should be… they should be working toward.

0:55:01As Will mentioned, next step, community workshop on May 12th, second public hearing on May 19th. As I said at the beginning, this will be a sprint, but we're off the blocks and going. And with that, I think we're all available for questions, and I'm sure Council has many.

0:55:16Okay, wonderful. Thank you for the complete presentation. It was a great presentation, and I hope our residents are listening, about this important change we're going to do. Let's start with questions. I'll start to my left here. Any questions?

0:55:32Just one, one.

0:55:34Thank you.

0:55:37Your mic's off.

0:55:39Thank you.

0:55:40You mentioned the Supreme Court's recent decision in the Voting Rights Act, and I've been wondering what implication it has towards us. I mean, is there…

0:55:50Takeaways from that that would impact what we're doing?

0:55:53There are no takeaways immediately that I see in what we're going to be doing, because it mostly affects the creation of what we're…

0:56:01kind of layperson would call a VRA district, a majority-minority district. There's no opportunity to create a majority-minority district here, and so the Section 2 of the Federal Voting Rights Act really isn't operative in the same way here as it might be in Oakland, as an example. So, it shouldn't have a significant impact at all. Okay, so…

0:56:22for lack of a better term, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act at the federal level does not impact the California Voting Voting Rights Act. There could be some litigation in the future around the way that the California Voting Rights Act refers to the Voting Rights Act, or the way the Voting Rights Act is

0:56:41triggered as a result of this thing we call racially polarized voting, and how we define racially polarized voting in California.

0:56:48And how it kind of piggybacks on federal language for how racially polarized voting is defined. And that's very technical, and I'm happy to talk about it, but it would be…

0:56:59then you can ask the attorneys. It might be a year, two, three years down the road before something like that would actually affect anything, so it would be far beyond the process that we're doing here. I'd just add to what Paul said, that

0:57:11We're still… we're all still sorting through what, if anything, the decision means, but…

0:57:18let's say, for example, that it laid the groundwork for a future challenge, created new defenses, a city now has more tools to defend itself against one of these demand letters. Let's say that that's true. I don't know that it is, but hypothetically, let's say that it were true.

0:57:35it doesn't really change the situation that this city council is in at this moment, because you would have to assert those defenses, go through the litigation process, and still be at risk of losing.

0:57:48Whereas continuing the process that you've already initiated of converting to district elections keeps you within the safe harbor process and ensures that the… that the litigation and attorney's fees risks that are at… that… that…

0:58:01Council decided to attempt to mitigate

0:58:04would still be avoided by continuing with the process. So, it may be that

0:58:10years down the road, we will learn that, that this decision actually created a pathway for a city to finally defend itself against the California Voting Rights Act, but it's going to take exactly the litigation process that you sought to avoid to learn whether or not that's true.

0:58:27I will also say that there is a bill pending in the legislature right now to make significant changes to the California Voting Rights Act, and so that, in light of this decision, it may well be that by the time that process gets to its conclusion.

0:58:41The effects of that decision on the California Voting Rights Act may well have themselves been… been mitigated, and so you would be exactly in the same position again. Okay, thank you.

0:58:53So my second question, you mentioned, both you and Will, the 10-year horizon, the 10-year time frame. Am I correct to assume that

0:59:03at least the first iteration of it isn't 10 years. It's until the census in 2030, and then you want to do it again then? Yeah, so you would, be using these maps for two election cycles, I understand, the 28 and the 30, and then you'd redistrict before 2032.

0:59:18And one thing I had forgotten to mention, I said.

0:59:20I will use the term redistricting. We are doing redistricting.

0:59:24Technically, we're doing a districting.

0:59:26just like, technically, when my mom used to make refried beans, she was just making fried beans because she wasn't doing it twice. She was just making fried beans. But we call it refried beans because that's just colloquially how we say it. So, we can use the term redistricting without getting into a semantic thing about… it's just the first time, so technically districting.

0:59:44Thank you very much.

0:59:48To my right here, any questions?

0:59:52Okay, questions, go ahead.

0:59:56Thank you, Mayor, and thank you for the presentation. I know… We are…

1:00:04Doing this districting in this fashion with this timeline, because of the safe harbor.

1:00:11So…

1:00:12does that… that basically precludes those other things, like ranked choice voting, or that one person can vote for one council member system, like in San Luis Obispo, and…

1:00:24Hidden, you know.

1:00:26Are those not safe harbor? Are they sort of safe harbor? So, you're engaging in this process, you're going down the road of doing the district drawing, which does preempt doing some other kind of election system. If you were to say, okay, stop.

1:00:42We want to do this star voting, or some other kind of, like, alternative election system.

1:00:49What you'd have to do is probably get the legal counsel on the other side to agree to it.

1:00:54And then you'd probably have to do something at your city charter to implement it.

1:00:59And then you would… Be able to have elections under that system.

1:01:04But… you're still under the California Voting Rights Act. It can still see you.

1:01:08Like my earlier analogy. And if somebody down the road were able to say, hey, there's still racially polarized voting in your city, and this election system you came up with hasn't solved it, then, you're right back where you started.

1:01:23And legal counsel might have some more.

1:01:25Yeah, so adding a few points, it's not technically a safe harbor. The potential, plaintiff, legal counsel and plaintiff could agree, to allow the city to move in another direction and see how it goes in terms of racially polarized voting.

1:01:45And that… a couple of cities have headed in that direction, and so far, they have not seen challenges to the alternative voting systems, like ranked choice voting or a single limit.

1:01:59But I think one of the things we covered at the last meeting that I didn't cover this time in the interest of time, is that,

1:02:07No city in… or other jurisdiction in Contra Costa County has yet converted to Ranked Choice or another voting system.

1:02:16Next door, Albany has, but there are multiple jurisdictions in Alameda County that have done that, and the costs of converting to that have been spread among all the jurisdictions.

1:02:26The first jurisdiction in Contra Costa County that, decides to move to Ranked Choice Voting, if one does, will be responsible for

1:02:35covering all of the costs of the county, acquiring the software, doing the training, making other changes. We have had a conversation with the Registrar of Voters, and the additional cost to the city would be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. So it's… it's a…

1:02:54With an agreeable plaintiff and legal counsel, it would be an option. It would not be a safe harbor option, and it would have financial impacts, that would be significant for the city, in addition to the costs of the city's normal election costs.

1:03:10And potential for re-litigation?

1:03:13there is that potential. As Paul said, the, that it… because it's not a safe harbor, if somebody else does not like the alternative system that the city council chose, and did a new statistical analysis and concluded that there was racial… racially polarized voting, we would be right back in this… having this exact same conversation.

1:03:31And what happens if we can't, finalize this by July 21st?

1:03:37Then it's no longer safe harbor?

1:03:39That is correct. We're outside of the 90-day window. I think that the next question is, does it take us one more city council meeting, or does it take us another six months? If it takes one more City Council meeting, being outside of the Safe Harbor is probably still relatively safe.

1:03:56Another 6 months does put the city at risk of a lawsuit being filed, and

1:04:02A court potentially awarding additional attorney's fees to the other side.

1:04:07And I think we keep saying Safe Harbor without really defining it. Can you give a quick

1:04:12explanation of what Safe Harbor means? Sure. What that means is that, as I, as I alluded to at the, towards the beginning of the presentation.

1:04:21If the City Council completes this process within the 45- and 90-day periods, the 90-day period being the adoption… the approval of an ordinance to, approve a map and, complete the process of adopting a district-based election system, which would be first implemented

1:04:39with the City Council 2028 election.

1:04:42Under statute, the attorney's fees that, that the city would be obligated to pay are capped.

1:04:49It's just a straight dollar amount. It is subject to increases for inflation. The current amount is between $38,000 and $40,000, depending on when it's calculated, but that will be the entire amount that the city will have to pay to the attorney representing the potential plaintiff.

1:05:06Once you get outside of the safe harbor timeline, or, or attempt to defend against the demand to convert to district-based elections.

1:05:19If the city, ends up in litigation, the cap on attorney's fees goes away, so it will be whatever the court determines is reasonable attorney's fees incurred by the plaintiff in bringing that lawsuit.

1:05:33Thank you.

1:05:37Okay, let's open up, the public hearing and announce…

1:05:44The public hearing is now open. Now is the time for members of the public who wish to provide public comments on this item. Requests to speak can be submitted to the City Clerk by completing a speaker card, using the raised hand on Zoom or dialing star 9 if joining by phone.

1:06:01In-person requests will be taken first. Please remember to identify yourself and your city of residence at the beginning of your comments. Madam City Clerk.

1:06:13Thank you, Mayor. We have just a couple requests to speak on this item. I would encourage anybody who is in attendance who would like to speak. You don't have to have a speaker card in if you would like to come up and provide feedback. The Council would like to hear from as many people as possible. So we'll go with our speaker cards first, so Michael McDougal, followed by Betsy Basher.

1:06:35Good.

1:06:37Good evening, Council. I'm Michael McDougal, I'm from El Cerrito. I'm also one on your financial advisory board.

1:06:42I want to encourage you tonight to, actually move forward with a four-district, one-mayor plan. I've thought about this a fair bit, trying to find the principle that was gonna

1:06:54caused me to decide amongst these choices. And one of the things that I think is true in El Cerrito is we're a very small city. I think you're very, very talented, and I admire you immensely, but I think that we only have a good city council because we've been able to draw from all of El Cerrito.

1:07:09Now, if we go with a mayor and four districts, that increases our chance that we will be able to draw talent from a larger pool. The mayor will be drawn from all of El Cerrito.

1:07:20And the pools for each of the districts will be 25%.

1:07:25larger, so our chance of getting a good candidate for the city council goes up dramatically if we have larger districts. If we subdivide ourselves into 5 different districts, I think it has the effect of diluting our talent pool.

1:07:39And we're gonna need talented people, because, you know, even though we're a small city, we like to punch above our weight, and I'd love to have as good a city council.

1:07:48Do I have 17 seconds? We should name the people who are making us do this. I think this is just bad for El Cerrito in general.

1:07:55And Rex Hold, the lawyer's firm, he's a Republican operator. He runs attack ads against progressive opponents, and I'm just sorry that we're having to deal with this. Again, tonight, let's move to four districts, with a mayor to have as big a talent pool as possible. Thank you for your comments. Our next speaker is Betsy Basher.

1:08:18Good evening.

1:08:19Good evening. I'm Betsy Basher, El Cerrito resident, and I really appreciated that presentation, also the questions that were asked, and I was particularly wondering why we couldn't do ranked choice voting, so it's good to hear about that.

1:08:37Wondering about drawing smaller districts made me wonder about, the distinctions that people make in our city, and I hadn't thought of the terms that were used here tonight, but one is, the hills versus the flats.

1:08:55And so, that can sometimes become,

1:09:00an unfriendly issue, and I think it could be sort of weird if, you know, the districts were drawn simply so that they would be, the most

1:09:13similar. So I'm curious to know how different issues, as far as, the people in a certain district being very alike.

1:09:23And, how… or how that is handled. Also, I really would prefer,

1:09:30five districts, because I like the way that the council works together as a team, and I don't like the idea of having, one mayor. I feel that even though you say that he would not have extra powers, technically, or she, I should say.

1:09:47That the person could arguably say that I am elected by the whole city, and all the rest of you are not. Thank you for your comments. Thank you.

1:09:57And we'll go to our remote request to speak.

1:10:04Iron, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

1:10:09Ira Sharenow: Irish Sharonel, El Cerrito.

1:10:12The person complaining used ecological regression, which is known to sometimes result in completely wrong results.

1:10:20However, the El Cerrito Council traditionally lacks diversity.

1:10:25When diversity is measured by diversity of ideas.

1:10:29Traditionally, the only idea that Council has is to rubber stamp management's proposals, even if the proposals are financially unsound.

1:10:38We have a strong city manager, weak elected council form of government.

1:10:42I recommend eliminating the city manager position.

1:10:46I also disagree that the mayor's position is largely ceremonial.

1:10:51The mayor often serves as the main anti-financial transparency officer.

1:10:57For example, on today's agenda is a third quarter financial report. The report is bad news for the taxpayers.

1:11:04This should not have been on the consent calendar.

1:11:07However, a few years ago, when the independent auditor determined that El Cerrito might not be able to continue as a going concern, that audit was also placed on the consent calendar.

1:11:19Now that the city is facing another budget crisis, once again, a major budget item was placed on the consent calendar.

1:11:27So, the need is for more transparency in city government and elected officials who will treat the public in an orderly and respectful manner. Thank you.

1:11:38Thank you, I'll go to our next request to speak.

1:11:42Michael Cohen, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

1:11:49michaelcoan: Yeah, I'm Michael Cohen, I'm an El Cerrito resident. I just have a question. Currently, we elect our city council in a staggered manner.

1:11:59Two in one election, and two years later, we're electing three.

1:12:06Is that going to change? How is it going to work when we have this new system of district voting? And are some of the city council members, when we switch to it, who are elect… are they going to be elected to a two-year term at some point, so that they all end at the same time? Can anybody give an answer to that?

1:12:27That's all I've got to say.

1:12:30Thank you for your comments. We'll go back to our in-person request with Carrie.

1:12:34Hi, I'm Carrie Schulman.

1:12:36I just wanted to say I really agree with what the first speaker had to say, that, having four districts and a mayor makes a ton of sense for a small city, so you can draw from a bigger talent pool, and it also creates less division in our city to have one person that's agreed upon by everybody. And I also think that four years makes a lot more sense, because

1:12:58It's just a lot to deal with all these elections and stuff, and doing it less often just is… it's like less headache and less time

1:13:06dealing with politics. So four years, four districts, one mayor, is what I support. Thank you very much.

1:13:15Thank you. Any last thoughts?

1:13:17Request to speak?

1:13:21Thank you.

1:13:22To speak for this item?

1:13:26Okay.

1:13:27Okay, that concludes the request to speak, Mayor. Thank you, Madam City Clerk. May I have a motion to close the public hearing? I'll move.

1:13:36We have a motion by Motiam and second by the Mayor Pro Tem. All in favor? Aye.

1:13:42Any nays, abstention? Motion passes.

1:13:45we'll come back to, Council comments.

1:13:50Start with you, Mayor Pro Tem Saltzman.

1:13:54Thank you, and thank you to the public who has, made comments tonight, and also people who participated in the poll. I have mixed feelings about

1:14:05four council members and an elected mayor versus just five council members and a rotating mayor. I do feel strongly there should be four-year terms for everyone, because I agree, more elections is bad for candidates, for the public.

1:14:19for continuity of the city, so I think either way, we should… we should have four-year terms.

1:14:25I do want to give some, you know, we sent out the poll, and we didn't give a lot of context, and so I want to give context as a council member. And we do have more council members today than maybe some other times who are working folks.

1:14:40And we have had some council members who are parents of school-aged children. I'm currently the only one, our last two ones only served one term, because it's challenging to be a working person and a parent of a school-age child and work here.

1:14:55We get paid a tiny stipend. That's fine. Like, we're here because we want to be here, because we care about making this city better.

1:15:01It is a challenge some weeks, and I'll just give you a snapshot into my past week, which is in my past week, there were 5 days where my wife was gone for work.

1:15:10And it's my busiest time of year at my day job, and this was a really big city council meeting. So that meant on Saturday afternoon, I was going to the pool reopening. On Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and Monday nights, I was reading the council packet from about 10 to 11 p.m, some nights longer. So it's, you know.

1:15:32That's a lot already.

1:15:33But a mayor that's elected will have more time they need to spend. So even if they don't technically have more power, I agree, they will kind of have more power, but also they're going to have more responsibility, because they're going to be the only one who is elected by the whole city, so that means

1:15:52Every constituent will want to meet with the mayor, even if they're also meeting with their council member, and every interest group, every media request. It's a lot.

1:16:04additional work, so I think the only way I would support us moving forward with four districts

1:16:10and a directly elected mayor is if we pay the mayor more, because it is a lot more work. And if we don't pay the mayor more, I believe we will only have retired or independently wealthy people who can do the job, or we'll get a working person who gets elected and only holds onto it for one term, because they'll realize it's just not doable. And I don't want to put people in that situation. We're a small town, we should make this doable.

1:16:35for lots of different types of people. So, would love to hear what the other council members think, but that's… that's how I'm feeling about this issue we're deciding on.

1:16:45Thank you very much. I'll go to my left here with Councilmember Weisinger!

1:16:52Councilmember Salzman, you took a lot of the words right out of my mouth, you know, I have said, and I… we spoke in the MSC, meeting just before this about my own challenges, being a working person, trying to pay bills on the stipend that we have, and, you know, we… again, we do it because we love it, but the year that you are mayor, that is incredibly hard.

1:17:16And I think that no matter what we say about, what types of power, limited power, that the mayor would have, I think that it doesn't even make sense to have a mayor for 2 years, because ultimately, you are gonna have a mayor who's gonna have to put forth a vision.

1:17:31And if they're going to have to put forth a vision, they're not going to be able to fulfill a vision in two years. They will need four years to actually put forth and try and carry out a vision. But ultimately, and I do want to also uphold what you said, the part about having only rich

1:17:48people…

1:17:49be the mayor. You know, we're seeing this, unfortunately, in our… let me not go down that road. But I also said earlier in the previous meeting that that's how… originally how the current, status or the current way we elect city council members, that's why it was created.

1:18:06It was created to keep working people out of these seats, so I agree with you that if we did have a mayor, we also have to have the budget consideration, that that particular mayor needs to be able to spend more time in the community with the various parts of the city.

1:18:20I know that even we as a council, I know we may at some point consider what our stipend is, and I think that that should go up, too, because if we are representing districts, we are going to, again, be spending more time in our districts. People are going to expect a lot more. Right now, we can say, oh, I can't go to the swim center, I gotta go to the, you know… something else happened that day, I think it was the Fairmont Rocks thing happened that day, either that or the Hillside.

1:18:45festival happened that same day. When you have districts, and I've seen this with friends who are on San Francisco Board of Soups, who are over in Oakland, people expect you to be at their events by hook or by crook.

1:18:56So, I think that we need to… whatever we do consider, we need to make sure that we're considering budget considerations for all those positions. I don't… I don't really have a preference of elected mayor versus not elected mayor, but if we do decide to have an elected mayor, those are the parameters that I would think that we would need.

1:19:13Okay, thank you very much. We'll go to Councilmember O'Thoun. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you

1:19:18For all these thoughts, I originally was thinking I would prefer to see four districts and an elected mayor, two or four years. I think that's kind of not so important to me at the moment, but in thinking through, kind of, the

1:19:36How this would get carried out.

1:19:38One of the things that, someone else pointed out to me is that you become a better councilperson by serving as mayor.

1:19:46And… you know.

1:19:48there is a possibility that we could elect a mayor that has never held public office, and that would be really hard. I mean, you can't… our rules currently, you have to be a council member for one year.

1:20:01to see… understand how all this works, just logistically, before you can serve as mayor. So, that might go away with an elected mayor, and I think

1:20:11you know, It will, as,

1:20:16Mayor Perema said that, you know, having a mayor is gonna consolidate a lot of power in the mayor, and that's gonna make, you know, four… four council members kind of, like, you know, weaker, or less important, or less…

1:20:35required for decision making, and I think that's kind of a sad and frightening thing, too. So, you know, I'm leaning more towards five districts now, even though I was the first one out of the gate for 4 plus mayor, but, thinking it through, I think 5 districts with a rotating mayor might be better.

1:20:55Councilmember. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, for the reasons, plus some that Councilmember Motuyama

1:21:02discuss, I favor the five districts with the… that rotates amongst the five members.

1:21:09or chosen by the four or five members. It doesn't need to necessarily rotate, but be chosen by the other council members. I do agree that sitting on the council provides training and prep to become mayor, and that's something that could be lost by a single person that's elected simply to mayor, and had not served on the council before.

1:21:25I also think that a lot of people in the community, and myself included, coming into the shop, didn't fully understand, or don't fully understand.

1:21:33The dynamics of what it means to have a weak mayor model and a strong city manager.

1:21:37And it takes time to learn that and understand it.

1:21:40And I feel like having an elected mayor confuses that. The people already

1:21:45Assume that the mayor has more power, and then why doesn't the mayor do this or do that?

1:21:50And I think that… you know, unless the model changes for the city, not necessarily how IRA requested.

1:21:58But unless the model changes, I think that having a mayor that's elected separately

1:22:03Confuses it and makes it seem like it is a stronger position than it really is, when it's really, you know, ceremonial.

1:22:10Alright, thank you.

1:22:12I just wanted to give my honest opinion about all of this. First of all, you know, I'm…

1:22:18Everyone knows that the minority communities that live here in El Cerrito, we're all spread out. We're spread out in the hills north and south.

1:22:27Yeah, of,

1:22:28along San Pablo, below San Pablo, above San Pablo and the BART station. As someone who, grew up in, in the flats.

1:22:40And then later on, my parents moved up in the hills. It,

1:22:46You know, it's one of these things where we are all the same

1:22:51Demographic of humans living here in this small town.

1:22:57And… and we get things done in a large and a huge way, because we have elected officials that would like to contribute. And most of us belong to regional boards, and this is the first time ever

1:23:12that we have elected officials on this council that are doing things statewide and promoting El Cerrita values. And this is what I learned from the Barkeys, who are very, very active in their day.

1:23:28But also with, Mayor Abelson, with Janet Abelson.

1:23:33So…

1:23:34looking at that and looking at what needs to be changed regionally in our county, I actually prefer, the four,

1:23:45districts and an at-large mayor, because I truly believe that, and I believe in two years, this is what I see in the city of Piedmont, and that seems to be working quite fine.

1:23:58You look at our demographic, it's majority Caucasian and Asian Americans at 30%. That is most… and we have Latinos at 10%, and,

1:24:11And this is what most of Contra Costa County looks like. La Miranda looks like that. Danville looks like that. Walnut Creek looks like that. Walnut Creek probably has a larger Latino population, but because we're such a small town.

1:24:27Where we will always keep this demographic, for the most part, the same way, because it's so expensive to move, and people stay here for generations. So, I don't see this changing anytime soon, and this is the most…

1:24:47diverse council that I've ever been in in my three terms, and we all live in different neighborhoods, so this truly is a dream team of diversity here, that I don't see

1:24:59in other towns. And what I see in the cities in Alameda County that, have district selections, it has turned it into

1:25:10more Caucasian and less minority communities participating.

1:25:15And we don't want that. So, I want to keep an open mind on this. I want to continue, the talks into, our next workshop and, second hearing on May 19th. I wanted to find out from the city clerk, is this, enough information that you need from us?

1:25:37Well, it sounds like there's,

1:25:40I don't… I don't… I didn't hear a strong consensus one way or the other, so I think we'll probably continue this… we'll make sure to highlight this item for further discussion at the May 19th hearing, and… but we are hopeful that by the conclusion of the second hearing.

1:25:56Council will be able to provide some direction about that. In the meantime, the district drawing tool will go live, and so you may see some four… four district maps, some five district maps being drawn by members of the public, and that's great.

1:26:10Those will all still remain available, even at the point in time in which Council makes a decision, but we are hopeful that by May 19th, we'll have some direction from Council so that Paul and his team can start drawing the maps and, and we'll know which direction to go in.

1:26:25Ultimately, we can go into the official map drawing process doing both, but you can see already that if you're… if we get into the later hearings and you're discussing the maps, and you're having to decide

1:26:39between map… not just different configurations of districts, but between 5 and 4, it's going to become more challenging for you as you go along, so that's the reason to try to, get some focus on this issue early on. Okay,

1:26:52Do we need a vote on this? Okay, we gave you enough information, and you'll be ready for the next meeting on the 19th. That's correct. Okay, very good. Thank you very much.

1:27:17Now, we'll go to Item 7, which is adoption of the consent calendar.

1:27:22Oh, Mayor, actually, the next item should be oral communications, not on the agenda.

1:27:27Oh, that… okay.

1:27:29Thank you.

1:27:30The next item is oral communications from the public. Now is the time for members of the public who wish to provide public comments regarding matters not on the agenda.

1:27:42consent items and presentation items. Requests to speak can be submitted to the City Clerk by completing a speaker card using the raise hand feature on Zoom.

1:27:51dialing star 9 if joining by phone. In-person requests will be taken first. Please remember to identify yourself and your city of residence at the beginning of your comments. Venom City Clerk, please proceed.

1:28:04Thank you, Mayor. We'll start with our in-person requests, starting with Bill Wood, followed by Elsa Jenny.

1:28:14Good evening.

1:28:17Hello, I'm Bill Wood, I live in El Cerrito.

1:28:20My colleagues in the ECRA, El Cerrito-Richmond Annex Walk and Roll Committee, and the BART Bicycle Advisory Task Force and I have written a report on the mid-block crossings of the Ohlone Greenway.

1:28:32I have that report printed out here, if I could hand it to, please hand it to the city clerk.

1:28:45At these crossings, motorized vehicles have no stop signs, creating a legally murky situation. Cyclists are technically required to stop, yet drivers are required to yield to non-motorized users in crosswalks. In practice, most drivers do yield, and most cyclists and pedestrians proceed cautiously without stopping.

1:29:04But that informal norm shouldn't substitute for clear law.

1:29:08If the City is serious about encouraging active transportation, as it has repeatedly stated, we urge the Council to direct city engineers to formally reassign the right-of-way at Greenway crossings.

1:29:19Giving legal priority to active transportation users rather than motorized traffic. I'm not saying this as a blanket thing, I just can't get into the details in 90 seconds. There's plenty of details in that report.

1:29:32And we hope the City Council will review it. Thank you. Thank you very much.

1:29:36Thank you. Our next speaker is Elsa Jenny.

1:29:40Good evening.

1:29:41Good evening, Councilmembers, Mayor.

1:29:44I'm a concerned El Cerrito resident and El Cerrito High teacher, actually, who generally avoids politics, but stuff recently I've been hearing is a lot.

1:29:55The flock cameras seem to be ridiculous. They installed one right in front of our home without notice. Badly marking up our driveway, the pole blocks the sidewalk, so it's hard to walk by.

1:30:05And now I hear they're sharing data, so that's all shady. Number 2, OMG, the library. It is splitting our city in half.

1:30:14It is obvious that many on City Council think that taxing our households more than $365 a year, not to mention authorizing the $80,000 extra for the early ballot, was a good idea. Really? What the heck?

1:30:29Richmond Street, that's number 3. UGG, right in my commute, gonna affect a lot of people. And not a lot of people knew what was going on. Look, we have a great city. Everyone loves feeling safe.

1:30:42We all love libraries and streets that function. If we value these things, our nice big city budget should support them. Oh, wait, somehow we're headed to financial bankruptcy. Something does not add up. Where is the money? Who's getting paid more than they should? What's going on?

1:31:01Thank you. Thank you.

1:31:03Thank you. Our next speaker is Carrie Shulman, followed by Sue Hansen.

1:31:09Hi, my name's Carrie Schulman, and I moved to El Cerrito in 2010. I now have two children, ages 11 and 13, and biking is our primary form of transportation.

1:31:21The Ohlone Greenway is one of the most important routes for people walking and biking in El Cerrito, but the current street crossings don't match that importance. I'm here to ask you to make the Ohlone Greenway crossings safer.

1:31:34Most drivers actually do yield at the Greenway crossings, but not all of them, and that inconsistency makes those crossings really dangerous. In addition, visibility can be tough, especially in the late afternoon, when the sun is in people's eyes.

1:31:49Please direct city staff to prioritize active transportation along the entire Greenway, but most urgently, please implement immediate safety fixes at the highest risk crossings of Central, Lincoln, and Cutting Boulevard. Thank you.

1:32:06Our next speaker is Sue Hansen, followed by Tuan No?

1:32:12Good evening. I'm Sue Hanson. I'm a resident 30 years in El Cerrito. I've been before the City Council a few times before when I felt strongly on a topic, and I was actually planning to speak on a particular item on the agenda tonight, and I've changed my mind. And I'll tell you why.

1:32:30I'm reluctant to speak in public these days on any contentious issue. The personal attacks on perceived opponents that have been coming out of Washington, D.C. are showing up in El Cerrito, and I don't want to be a target.

1:32:43I'm concerned that others may be reluctant to speak for similar reasons, and that some people, including current and prospective City Council members, will be discouraged from participating in El Cerrito governance, and that's a shame.

1:32:58I'd like to believe that everyone here and everyone watching cares about El Cerrito.

1:33:04I hope we can remember that our common goal is to do what's best for our community.

1:33:09We may not always agree on what that is, but we can disagree without being disagreeable.

1:33:16I'm gonna close with a few words from a book that came out about 40 years ago. It's called, All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten. Some people here may remember it. Here's a little of what we learned.

1:33:30Play fair.

1:33:31Don't hit people.

1:33:33Put things back where you found them.

1:33:36Clean up your own mess.

1:33:38Don't take things that aren't yours.

1:33:41Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

1:33:43And finally.

1:33:45When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic. Thank you for your comments. And stick together. Thank you for your comments. Our next speaker is Tuan Yeo, followed by, Ira Shernau.

1:34:00Hi, my name is Tuan, and I've been working across the East Bay, from San Jose all the way to Richmond, talking about the importance of public safety and working with families of murdered children.

1:34:12I think it's absolutely critical, because for a long time, there has just been a neglect

1:34:20the need for public safety. Our businesses are oftentimes robbed

1:34:25The thieves are getting sophisticated, they're driving around with stolen vehicles from one city and driving across to another city, so they don't respect any boundaries. They will not rob within their backyard. They will come to another neighborhood next to a freeway, next to a BART station, and violate people.

1:34:44Assaulting our seniors. And… You know, it's… I think it's possible to have privacy

1:34:50and responsible use of technology that allow for public safety. And we should be data-driven and not be fear-driven, where we lose protection, because our families need protection. And…

1:35:05Now, being an immigrant, and my first job was picking tomatoes in the fields. That's how I learned Spanish, being an Asian. But I work with our community, not only the Asian community, but tambien los Latinos. Somos puntos.

1:35:19What I'm saying is ICE doesn't need

1:35:24cameras to get at our information. They have access to Medicare, Medicaid data. That tells them who you are, where you live. They have their fingers to a lot of things. Thank you for your comments.

1:35:38Go to our remote request to speak.

1:35:43Ira, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

1:35:46Ira Sharenow: Irish Aranel, El Cerrito.

1:35:48The total general fund balance for June 30, 2025 was $24.2 million.

1:35:56The projected total general fund balance for June 30, 2026 is only $21 million.

1:36:03That means the general fund lost about $3 million due to bad budgeting practices.

1:36:10Excuse me. And overpaying managers, having too many managers, and having too many highly compensated consultants.

1:36:19When you put together all the money paid to managers and consultants for the library proposal.

1:36:25What number do you come up with?

1:36:27Can the city continue to run deficits in order to promote a problematic library project?

1:36:35I took a look at the fiscal year 2024 budget document.

1:36:38The expected budget for fiscal year 2026 was $53.8 million.

1:36:44But now, the amended budget for fiscal year 2026 is $56.7 million, so almost $3 million over projections.

1:36:54That is very bad budgeting.

1:36:56And now the city continues to waste money on its library as the centerpiece of a downtown fantasy.

1:37:04Please do your job and work for the people who elected you, and not for the people who make big campaign contributions. Thank you.

1:37:13Thank you, Mayor. That concludes our request to speak at this time.

1:37:18Thank you very much. Now we will go to adoption of the consent calendar.

1:37:26We have,

1:37:29Item 7B, we have a representative here to accept the proclamation, which will occur after adoption of the consent calendar.

1:37:38Are there any brief questions or requests by the Council to pull items off the consent calendar?

1:37:44which is A, National Public Works Week.

1:37:48B, Affordable Housing Month Proclamation.

1:37:51And we have a special guest here to accept that.

1:37:55C, Jewish American Heritage Month Proclamation. D, Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander Heritage Month Proclamation. E, Bike to Wherever Day Proclamation. F, Environmental Quality Committee Appointment Recommendation. G,

1:38:12Third quarter general fund budget update through March 31st, 2026.

1:38:19Would anyone like to pull anything?

1:38:23Yes.

1:38:25Thank you, Mayor. I would like to, ask some questions on item G.

1:38:30Third quarter general fund budget. Okay.

1:38:33Anyone else? I don't want to pull anything, but I think we have someone here to accept the Bike to Wherever Day proclamation… Proclamation item E. Okay, I want to make sure that we vote on that, but first we'll go to… would you like to pull anything?

1:38:49The same as what Councilmember Matyama said, I just wanted to have some discussion around G.

1:38:54Would you like to pull anything? Okay.

1:38:56Good. So we will go to item B, Affordable Housing Month Proclamation. Do I have a motion to support?

1:39:05I'll move.

1:39:07I second.

1:39:08Okay, we have a motion by Motayama and a second from Councilmember Weisiger. All in favor? Aye. Any nays? Abstention? Motion passes. So here we have a special guest. We have

1:39:22Jerry Levin of Jeffrey Levin of EBHO here to say a few words and receive the proclamation. Hi, Jeff. Thank you, good evening. My name is Jeff Levin, I'm the Senior Director of Policy with East Bay Housing Organizations.

1:39:37We are a member-driven organization convening a diverse coalition that advocates to produce, preserve, and protect affordable housing opportunities for low-income communities in the East Bay. And our membership includes over 400 individuals and organizations.

1:39:54Including nonprofit developers, social service organizations, and residents of affordable housing throughout Alameda and Contra Costa counties. So I'd like to thank the City Council for recognizing Affordable Housing Month and affirming your long-term commitment to affordable housing.

1:40:11I'm particularly happy to be able to receive this proclamation on Epo's behalf as a 37-year resident of El Cerrito.

1:40:19So as we celebrate Affordable Housing Month here in El Cerrito, we're joined by EBHO members and staff who are organizing over 25 public events. We hope that you'll be able to attend some of them. Our calendar is online at eBho.org slash events.

1:40:38I hope you take advantage of the chance to learn and see more about affordable housing.

1:40:44I just want to say,

1:40:49At the state level right now, we are inspired by the Roadmap Home Policy Platform. We hope to pass a statewide housing bond in November, and hope you all will support that when it gets to the ballot.

1:41:00But also, in this moment of unprecedented instability, we cannot look only to the state and federal governments to sustain our affordable housing system. In fact, the role of local government and local communities has never been more important.

1:41:15So, we can keep each other safe, and we can keep each other housed, but only if we work together.

1:41:20And only if we're committed to a vision of a racially and economically just East Bay where everyone has access to a safe.

1:41:28stable and affordable home. And on that note, on behalf of EBHO, I thank you very much for this honor, and we hope to see you at some of our events. Thank you very much. Let's go get a photo with,

1:41:41I just want to thank you for your work, and I did attend the EPHO event this morning, the Future of Homeownership, on Zoom. Great, thank you. I've been to your offices many times.

1:41:51Any other comments?

1:41:52I know Lisa has two.

1:43:01We have another proclamation here, which is… Bike to Wherever.

1:43:08And that one is item E.

1:43:14May I have a motion to support? So moved. Second. Okay, a motion by the Mayor Pro Tem and second by Mochiyama. All in favor?

1:43:21Aye. Aye. Any nays? Abstentions? Motion passes. And I believe we have… Someone care that will,

1:43:32Carrie Schulman from El Cerrito Richmond Annex Walk and Roll.

1:43:36Would you like to, make a statement?

1:43:39Oh, I didn't prepare anything, but, thank you so much for supporting active transportation in our community. It's such a vital part for increasing people's physical health, mental health.

1:43:53And, helping save money for them, but it's also a community-building thing. It helps,

1:44:00Reduce traffic, reduce parking needs, and

1:44:06and reduce pollution. So, thank you so much for, proclaiming Bike to Work. Absolutely. I also want to say thank you to my colleague,

1:44:15Mayor Pro Tem?

1:44:17Rebecca Saltzman, your daytime job with Bike East Bay, appreciate your leadership. Again, thank you. Let's, present this.

1:45:08Now we'll go to item G. Questions.

1:45:12Right.

1:45:13Thank you, Mayor. I have a question about, Table 1.

1:45:24Good evening, Mayor and Council, Clerk Coleman, Budget and Financial Services Manager.

1:45:28I'm just pulling up Table 1, yes? So, in Table 1, the update shows that other taxes changed by $4,625%. Could you please explain that? Yes, it did, but as an absolute dollar amount, it was about,

1:45:44about $1,600, which in this, in the context of the city's pull budget is, what I would call de minimis. It's really, insignificant. That being said, that is due to the city's construction tax, which is a very…

1:45:58niched and rarer form of attacks in California after Proposition 13. It's a tax in the city's municipal code that predates Prop 13, and so we have it on our books, but we are not able to extend it, we are not able to increase the rate, and so it's…

1:46:10I don't recall the exact rate, but it's like 10 cents per bedroom on new construction. So every now and then, there's a very large new construction development in the city, and as a result, we get a pretty significant… pretty significant, so an extra $1,500 for that item. But overall, the construction tax is both very rare, something we can't change, and a really negligible portion of our revenues. Thank you very much.

1:46:31Councilmember Boat,

1:46:34Yeah, I have just an observation, mostly, but I can pose as a question, too. I am very concerned that the discretionary fund is down to less than

1:46:44Less than a million, and… You know, it's about 9% of what the target is.

1:46:50And I think that we haven't…

1:46:52you know, really even hit a lot of the expenses that are coming towards us, and I'm just curious, do you see a prospect of

1:46:59that… getting back to the target anytime soon? So the discretionary is in addition to the 17%, so the total unrestricted reserve is 19%, and that's in addition to the 13%. So we're currently at…

1:47:12was that? 32%. So we are well above the city's, both 13% EDRF, that's the Emergency Disaster Relief Fund, so we have the full 13%.

1:47:22Which currently is actually slightly overfunded at $7.5 million, in addition to the 17%. So we're at 32 total. And then the discretionary amount in addition to that

1:47:32whether it would go up is just really depending on the budgetary and appropriation decisions that the Council makes. Okay, thank you very much. That relieves my concern tremendously. Absolutely. I would be very concerned if that had gone down so fast as well.

1:47:43Okay.

1:47:44Would anyone else like to speak on that?

1:47:49Okay, good. So do I have a motion to support

1:47:53the, consent calendar. So moved. Second.

1:47:57We have a motion, a second.

1:48:00All in favor? Aye. Aye.

1:48:03Any nays, abstention? Motion passes. Thank you very much. Next, we will go to… A public hearing?

1:48:13This will be a public hearing to confirm the diagram and to levy the assessment for fiscal year 26-27 for Landscape and Lighting Assessment District.

1:48:26And we have Crystal Brams.

1:48:28Good evening.

1:48:31Good evening, Mayor, City Council, Crystal Reins, Finance Director. So yes, before you, we have two public hearings tonight. One for… the first one is for the Landscape and, Lighting District for LAD. This is the…

1:48:46Adopting the resolution and settling the annual landscape and lighting assessment for fiscal year 25-26. It is $72 per single unit. This has been the set price since

1:48:591996, I believe. It generates approximately $785,000 of revenue each year.

1:49:08And, I will not bore you with the entire staff report.

1:49:13Hey, do we have any questions?

1:49:16Okay,

1:49:23We're gonna, open the public hearing.

1:49:27Now is the time for members of the public who wish to provide public comments on this item. Requests to speak can be submitted to the City Clerk by

1:49:36completing a speaker card using the raise hand feature on Zoom, or dialing 9 at joining by phone.

1:49:41In-person requests can be taken first. Please remember to identify yourself and your City of Residence at the beginning of your comments. Madam City Clerk.

1:49:51Thank you, Mayor. We do not have any requests to speak on this item. Okay, do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I'll move.

1:49:58Second.

1:49:59I have a motion by Motion and a second by Weisinger. All in favor? Aye.

1:50:04Okay, motion passes.

1:50:08Okay, any council comments?

1:50:13Do I have a motion to approve? So moved. Second.

1:50:18I have a motion by Weisinger and a second by Motayama. All in favor? Aye. And nays? Abstention. Motion passes.

1:50:29Okay, B is a public hearing, regarding fiscal year 2026-27 storm drain annual report and method of collecting storm drain fees.

1:50:41Go ahead. Finance Director. This one is for the storm drain annual report, and method for collecting the storm drain fees. This, fee is set at $58 for each single-family residential property, and it generates…

1:51:00$711,817, annually, roughly, for the budget.

1:51:07Got any questions?

1:51:11Okay.

1:51:14We're gonna open the public hearing.

1:51:17The public hearing is now open. Now is the time for members of the public to wish to provide public comments on this item.

1:51:23Requests to speak can be submitted to the City Clerk by completing a speaker card using the raise hand feature on Zoom or dialing 9. If

1:51:31joining by phone. In-person requests will be taken first. Please remember to identify yourself and your City of Residence at the beginning of your comments. Madam City Clerk. Thank you, Mayor. We do have one request to speak, if you could just state your name for the record, please. My name is Rosa Esquivan from El Cerrito. Just a question.

1:51:49Are we capturing the water and then recycling the water? If we can plan on doing that, that'd be nice to save water. Thank you.

1:51:58I mean, that storm drain, water falls into the storming.

1:52:02This… okay.

1:52:04Thank you. That concludes our request to speak, Mayor.

1:52:09Back to the Council, any… Thoughts? Any comments?

1:52:14Okay, do I have a motion to approve? I'll move. We also… we need a motion to close the hearing first. Oh, I'm sorry. I'll move to close the public hearing.

1:52:23Second. Okay, a motion to close by Motiamo and second by Foster. Aye, aye.

1:52:30Any nays? Abstentered. Motion passes.

1:52:33Okay, now we go to Final Comments.

1:52:36No final comments. Let's go to a motion to approve. I'll move to approve. Second.

1:52:41Okay, we have a motion by Motiam and a second by the Mayor Pro Tem.

1:52:45All in favor? Aye. Any nays, abstention? Motion passes.

1:52:50Okay, thank you.

1:52:55Next, we will go to… Policy… Policy matters.

1:53:07Actually, we're gonna do a 15-minute recess.

1:53:11Is that?

1:53:12It's at your discretion, Mayor. Let's do that. For 15 minutes, take a break, and we'll come back at 8.15.

2:08:46Okay, Mayor, we are ready to go back in session. We're back in session now at 8-15, and next is Policy Matters Fiscal year 2026-2027.

2:08:57We're gonna… We're doing a study session on the biannual budget.

2:09:02For fiscal years 26, 27, and 27-28.

2:09:07We have, our finance team here to give us a presentation. Welcome.

2:09:15Good evening, Mayor and Council. Again, my name is Claire Coleman, I'm your Budget and Financial Services Manager. I'm joined this evening by my excellent boss, our City Treasurer of Finance Director, Crystal Reams, and we're here to talk with you today about some of the proposed scenarios and about the fiscal 26-27 and Fiscal 27-28 budget.

2:09:33As a reminder, the City of El Cerrito does a two-year budget, and so we are building this budget for the next two years. The City will legally adopt the appropriation, the spending limit.

2:09:43For the next year, but we will make the two-year plan so we have a longer-term horizon and a longer-term focus.

2:09:49This evening, I'm going to start by talking about the budget process, and we've already actually had some good conversations about all the different activities that have been involved, but I'm going to be a little bit more detailed about the actual work that went in by staff into this budget, and by various different… all of the different departments in developing the budget numbers and the scenarios that are before you today.

2:10:08I encourage anyone who is not already to look at the staff report, the agenda bill, and the attachments. They are highly detailed. For the sake of time, I am not going to go into excruciating detail on all of the different things that are involved in each scenario. I am going to keep it high level, although, of course, if the City Council have questions, I'm happy to answer and work with my colleagues. Many department directors and leadership are in the room to provide answers about service impact

2:10:33and program impacts of these changes. But for the sake of time, I won't get into the total detail, but I do want to encourage anyone who hasn't already to look at the attachments in particular to the agenda bill, because it does provide a lot more information about what's in the budget.

2:10:48So, we're gonna talk about the budget. I'm gonna talk about target-based budgeting and what that meant for our process this year. It was something that's relatively new to cities in general, definitely new to El Cerrito. And then I'll talk about the scenarios and the four different, high-level, kind of.

2:11:02options that have been laid out for the City Council to consider, and the ways that each meet different types of priorities that the Council might consider.

2:11:10And then we'll close with a recommended action. I will say our goal, if possible, is to get guidance from the City Council for which budget scenario you would like us to develop. We will be bringing a draft budget book to the City Council on June 2nd, and in order to do so, in order to build that budget book, we do need some time to actually create it. And so, if at all possible, if the Council finds a consensus and is able to provide direction for us, it would be very helpful to get that either today or at the

2:11:3519th meeting, so that we can get that budget book to you on time for June… for the June 2nd meeting.

2:11:41So I mentioned the overall process. We begin, and we began this year really in November last fall, by staff, primarily me, with support from other departments, developing preliminary revenue and expenditure projections for the next two years. That is based on both consultant and expert forecasts.

2:12:01It's based on trend analyses, it's looking at not only what has happened in the past, but what market conditions and all of our information are telling us about trends moving forward.

2:12:10I've spoken a fair amount about some of the major trends in pension, in insurance, and in major revenues. For anyone who is new, I recommend looking at the materials from the last council meeting, because we did go over a lot of those major components.

2:12:22We then used target-based budgeting, and I'll talk about that a bit more on the next slide, and that was used to identify different budget cuts, possible budget solutions, and develop the baseline that we're talking about today.

2:12:33Departments made significant cuts across budget lines in order to make the budget possible. I'm going to emphasize that multiple times throughout this presentation, because there are some things that are not listed in the scenarios, because they are already in the budget, and that includes cuts to things like supplies, travel and training.

2:12:49Consultant services, anywhere where departments could cut back, they have already, in every way possible, without doing things that materially will affect services and programs. It will affect city operations, undoubtedly, but there are things that departments felt they could do while maintaining high-quality operations and services.

2:13:07However, as you will see in the recommendations today, or in the proposals today, there are further cuts that will be needed to meet some of the fiscal sustainability goals that have been directed by the City Council and our financial policies.

2:13:19So I want to emphasize, a lot of work has already gone into this budget, and a lot of cuts have already been made, and I hope I don't sound like a broken record, because I will emphasize that a little… a few more times later on.

2:13:30After departments created their budgets, Finance and the City Manager's Office worked together to create these budget balancing scenarios to look at different approaches and different high-level ways that the city could find a different version of a balanced budget and long-term operational sustainability.

2:13:48Target-based budgeting. So target-based budgeting is relatively new in the municipal finance world. It also could be considered kind of a rephrasing of some practices that already existed. Fundamentally, target-based budgeting is starting with revenues. It's starting with how much money do we have, what resources do we have, and what can we afford?

2:14:06And so it's… it's giving departments, rather than saying, what are your expenses from last year, and you add 3% for CPI, and then you add all the other increases, and you roll forward, it's saying, what can we actually afford to do? And then you give departments a target. You say, this is your target budget. What can you do with this budget?

2:14:21Whether… and then beyond that, in good times, you also say, okay, this is your target budget, this is your baseline. If you want additional things, if you want new programs, then you make those proposals separately.

2:14:31Because we, like pretty much all of our peers, are in a budget deficit situation, in this case, it was giving departments a target and saying, if this were your final budget, what would this mean for your operations?

2:14:41And so it's trying to get to that place of what can we afford, and then what does that mean for the services and programs that we provide to the community, and what are the changes that we need to make, and what are the decisions that the council will have to weigh of how do we prioritize the different things? Because ultimately, everything a city does

2:14:58is important. We don't have the budget to do things that don't matter, and so it's… it's… there aren't easy decisions to make, ultimately, in a budget deficit situation.

2:15:11So, reserves policy. I wanted to touch on the City's reserves policy. This is from our comprehensive financial policy. This was adopted most recently by the City Council, I believe, last year. So it's updated regularly with recommendations from the Financial Advisory Board.

2:15:26The city's current targets are 13% of general fund expenditures in the Emergency and Disaster Recovery Fund, which we call the EDRF.

2:15:34At 17% of general fund expenditures in an unrestricted general fund, for a total reserve goal of 30%.

2:15:41The City… the Comprehensive Financial Policy does stipulate that the City Council may adopt a deficit budget as long as reserves do not fall below 10%, and if they do expect to fall below 10%, then the City must adopt a restoration plan for the next 5 years of how to get back to that 17% reserve.

2:15:58City also has a Section 115 pension trust. It's currently $3 million in the City's pension trust, and that is separate from general fund reserves, completely separate from that 30% number I quoted, and it is fully designated for pension obligations.

2:16:16So, about the scenarios.

2:16:18All four of the scenarios presented, there's… we lettered them A, B, C, and D, all four present a balanced operating budget. And what that means is that the underlying operations of the city are balanced, and that they do not use reserves in either fiscal year. However, one-time uses of, fund balance

2:16:36in some cases, would push the city into what would technically, on an accounting level, be a deficit budget, but we consider that the operating, the fundamental, ongoing budget of the city is balanced, even when there are one-time uses for one-time needs.

2:16:50The one-time use in this case that we were talking about, the only one that's currently listed is the fire engine. Every other one-time need, every one-time expense has already been included in the budget, if necessary.

2:17:03The fire engine is a very, very large expense. Traditionally, we would hope to save for this over time, but because El Cerrito has been in fiscal distress since 2019, the city has not been able to set aside significant funds for this fire engine replacement. It has already been approved by the City Council as a purchase.

2:17:19So we, I don't believe, have any expectation of coming back to Council of whether to do this, but simply how to fund it over the next two years. We expect to have two significant payments for the fire engine, that's about $300,000… well.

2:17:31the remaining component, based on what we… the city has already set aside, $380,000, I believe, but we also have some additional. So we have about $400,000 in reserves already set aside from both Council actions in the past, and some small savings, so I don't want to say that we have no savings for this, but we do not have enough to cover the full expense.

2:17:50So we expect an additional cost of $300,000 in the first year, and just shy of $900,000 in the second year.

2:17:57There are some different ways to balance that, whether we set aside more funds in the first year than in the second, and I'll talk about that in some of the scenarios, but it is a very significant capital expense that we have to determine how to afford over the next two years.

2:18:12All four are an operating balanced budget, but there are fundamental differences in how they approach the depth of service reductions, how to, like I said, how to approach funding the fire engine, and the long-range impacts to the general fund forecast.

2:18:27So each balance is service cuts with maintaining general fund reserves. And that's the ultimate decision and balance that the City Council will need to consider this evening, and in making decisions about this two-year budget, is the balance between what level of services we want to provide as a city and what we can afford, versus what level of reserves the City and the Council want to maintain.

2:18:47All of these, finance… the finance department believes all of these are fiscally viable. They just meet different levels of council priorities in different ways.

2:18:55New contributions to long-term infrastructure are included in every single one of these proposals. So, in the past, the city has not been able to afford setting aside funds for capital infrastructure and deferred maintenance, and for vehicle and equipment replacement.

2:19:07Every single one of these four scenarios include at least some level of significant capital contributions. Every… and that was a priority because it has been a Council priority, so finance in developing this budget made that a priority as well.

2:19:21So I'll talk about the level of contributions for each of those long-term things based on each scenario, but that's one of the primary things that is included in every single one of these options.

2:19:31I already mentioned this final bullet. Departments have already made significant cuts, and so… the list of…

2:19:38of decisions and of remaining cuts and changes seems very difficult, and unfortunately, that is because it is a difficult decision to make. We have done everything we can, that's why there's a 9-page list of a tiny spreadsheet form of

2:19:53Tiny, tiny text of every single thing we could possibly think of, some of which are deeply unpleasant and would be very, very, very unpopular, but we wanted to show that we have been as thorough as we could possibly be, picking up every single rock, trying to identify any opportunity that we could to find ways to balance this budget.

2:20:09And so the recommended scenarios are based on staff's recommendation of where we think Council's priorities lie and the balance of that with fiscal sustainability.

2:20:19So, a high overview of each of the four scenarios. So, Scenario A has the highest service levels, it has the most limited long-term contributions, and it does use fund balance for both fire engine payments, but there is an expectation that reserves would stay above 26%, so combined 13%,

2:20:36Plus 13% in the unrestricted fund, so 13 rather than the 17%, but still a combined 26%, and that would remain throughout the entire duration of the 10-year forecast as it currently stands.

2:20:48The limited long-term contributions, you may look at scenarios A and B, and they think they look quite similar. The difference is that Scenario B still includes significant contributions for capital, infrastructure, and vehicle replacement in the second year, whereas Scenario A doesn't include those in order to decrease the level of service cuts that are required. So B has higher levels of service cuts.

2:21:09But it does balance that with longer-term infrastructure planning and higher set-asides for things like building maintenance, capital, and vehicle replacement.

2:21:19Scenario C… sorry, let me go back to B really quickly. Reserves are expected, similar to A, to stay above 26% throughout the duration of the forecast.

2:21:28Scenario C includes significant program and service reductions. It does include long-term planning for capital and infrastructure and for vehicle replacement.

2:21:38It includes no use of one-time reserves at all for the fire engine, and one of the ways we do that is by putting more aside in the first year towards the fire engine through an internal service fund, funds that are reserved for that engine, so that we can balance it, because some of the city's costs are escalating significantly in the second year of the budget, in particular personnel costs.

2:21:58insurance and the city's UAL are escalating in the second year of the budget, so by putting more of those funds aside in the first year, the city's able to balance more carefully and avoid doing such deep service cuts throughout the budget.

2:22:10And then Scenario D is effectively identical to Scenario C, but it ensures that the city does not go below 17%, so a total of 30%, at any point in time throughout the duration of the 10-year forecast. And so there's an additional cut, added to that, but it is a very, sensitive cut, to be completely…

2:22:29Frank, it is a very sensitive cut to discuss, and so we're trying to find the balance of, all of the different options that were available, and different ways that the Council could consider those.

2:22:42The beginning original estimate had us at a deficit of $1.7 million in the first year as an operating deficit, and $2.2 in the second year. If you add the fire engine to that, our original deficit was over $2 million in the first year, and $3.1 in the second.

2:22:58So we were beginning with a very, very significant deficit, and we've fixed that through a lot of different ways, and I'll talk to some of the different things in the next slide. But the starting point was a very, very difficult position. It was not a sustainable one for the city, and we've made an enormous number of changes, both at the department level, at the staff level, and then also in our recommendations to the City Council today.

2:23:17As you can see, all four of the scenarios, A, B, C, and D, have a balanced operating budget, those first two columns, and then the additional of the fire engine takes you to the total fund balance change, and that's where you see the use of fund balance or not, depending on the scenario that is selected.

2:23:37So, changes that are recommended in every single one of the four scenarios. The first is one of the only increases to this budget, which is a recommendation of an increase in investment in cybersecurity. It has been recommended by a number of different, including this, a number of different organizations, particularly RIT Manager and the service delivery study to ensure that the city is safe.

2:23:57Many of you will have heard about peer agencies who have been hacked. El Cerrito has had its own.

2:24:03dalliance with crisis in that… in that… in that way, and so we really, really want to ensure that the city is safe. This is a critical importance for the city. Some of the existing reductions. So there is an updated overhead cost allocation.

2:24:16We have a new cost allocation plan, so we have revisited all of the city's cost allocations to make sure that they are correct, and that special funds and our enterprise fund are, we are calculating the correct amount that those funds cost the city.

2:24:28So, based on our calculations, our enterprise fund in particular, our Integrated Waste Management Fund, IWM, the cost allocation has not been updated in quite some time, and so the difference between what was originally

2:24:41In the budget, as for the last two years, and what our cost… our new cost allocation model that we got just recently from our consultant, is showing is a pretty significant difference.

2:24:50We are also evaluating all of our special revenue funds and making sure that we're using them for appropriate and allowable uses, but in also making sure that we are utilizing those funds to the best of our abilities.

2:25:01And then there were some city… some various different departmental level changes. And we also, I want to touch again on the Internal Service Fund contributions. An internal service fund is

2:25:12kind of like a part of the general fund, which is where we're able to set aside and reserve funds and save for longer-term needs. So some of these expenses were already happening with some departments, some of them are increases, and some of them are truly new. So that $440,000 is primarily expenses that the city was already setting aside each year for vehicles.

2:25:30and equipment, but we're restructuring those to make sure that it's going through our internal service fund, so we're able to track them, that we have excellent audit records, and also so that if there are timing issues with vehicle purchases, that they don't get swept up into the general fund balance when that department still really needed that vehicle, they just hadn't received it by June 30th.

2:25:46There are some increases on… small increases for departments in that $440,000. We call that the fire department vehicle allowance separately. That is not something that has been in the budget for some years, primarily due to the city's fiscal distress, but this fire department has a significant number of small vehicles that are quite old. They are over 300,000 miles, and there's just a point where we really need to start planning for replacing those vehicles, and due to upfitting costs, they are quite

2:26:11expensive. So that was called out separately. It's going into the same internal service fund as the other vehicles, but it's called out separately to highlight that because it is significant and it is new.

2:26:21Otherwise, we also included a set-aside for fire department equipment and vehicle replacements, so that in the future, when we do need another new fire engine, we don't have to use fund balance. We were not able to set aside those funds in the recent past, but we were trying to move forward and start saving for future ones now. We know we have the breathing apparatuses, sometimes called SCBAs, we have fire engines, we have major fire engine capital

2:26:46expenses that we need to start planning for so that we don't have future uses of fund balance.

2:26:51And then finally, the capital and deferred maintenance set aside. It's $300,000 currently in each fiscal year, except for Scenario A, which only has that $300,000 contribution in the first year.

2:27:01So I know I said I wasn't going to do too many details, I hope this isn't boring anyone to tears.

2:27:05So on our fund… on our forecast, we're gonna have four different slides with each of the forecasts, so you can see the impacts of these. You will notice that scenarios A and B, again, they look similar visually, but they are materially different in the ways that, A… that A, excuse me, that B sets aside long-term funding in a way that A currently does not.

2:27:24So you can see A is primarily just those things that I mentioned. It has some contributions, but they're more limited.

2:27:34really quickly, the Section 115 trust, in each of these graphs on the right, you'll see the green, so they're stacked, so it's showing the cumulative total of these. So, for example, in fiscal year 24, you can see that the blue… the blue, which is the EDRF, that's the Emergency Disaster Recovery Fund, that jumps up. Where the green would have gone down.

2:27:53for example, on the graph to the left, you see that it goes down dramatically in 24. That's because the city took some of those unrestricted reserves, put them into the EDRF. So our reserves didn't drop in 24, they just went into a separate

2:28:04Type of reserve.

2:28:06So, the blue is the Emergency Disaster Fund. The EDRF is staying stable, and there's no expectation that the city would use it.

2:28:14The green dips down, as you can see, below that 17% goal level, but then starts to come dramatically up in out years. That's primarily due to the city's UAL coming down, and also due to the conclusion of

2:28:26debt service on City Hall.

2:28:28Then there's the Section 115 pension trust. So we have modeled use of the Section 115 trust based on the highest current estimated years for the pension. And so we expect that to begin not in this two-year budget, but in the next two-year budget, both years of the next two-year budget and

2:28:45maybe 29 and 30, we would expect to start using that Section 115 trust, and then have it ramp up to basically smooth the impact of that UAL. We're approaching peak UAL. If you recall from last presentation, there's that graph that looks

2:28:58It's… it's very much a large curve. We're starting to come down around 2032, but we're… 2032 is about the peak, so it's using the Section 115 when we expect those peak years. So the Council could choose to use it for this budget.

2:29:11Currently, it is modeled to be used during those highest years so that the city doesn't have to make difficult… as many difficult trade-offs in the near future.

2:29:20A lot of detail about Scenario B. Again, I recommend people look into the staff report for the full detail about each of these. I mentioned already the differences between A and B, so I will continue to the next graph. As you can see, it looks quite similar, but again, it is materially different in the way that funds are set aside for the long term.

2:29:41Looking at C, this is everything in B+, so all of the cuts and service reductions in B are included in addition to all of these other lists.

2:29:51There are some things that are…

2:29:55Either beloved community experiences, like the holiday lights, or other things that… that are important, and…

2:30:03Part of the reason we wanted so much detail and transparency is because we will have to do less, and we want people… we want the community and the council to understand why things may be different than what they have seen in the past.

2:30:15And why these decisions were made. Because sometimes it is difficult when we've had really exciting programs or levels of service that we are no longer able to provide. And so our goal is to be transparent about these changes, and to also,

2:30:28Acknowledge that we may have to

2:30:31do less with less in some areas. It's just the sad reality of a budget deficit.

2:30:40On the forecast, as you can see, the city is projected to just touch that 17% line and then come up. As I mentioned before, the lowest would be 29% of the policy 30% reserve.

2:30:54So this is, deeper levels of service cuts, again, in exchange for higher levels of reserves over time.

2:31:03And then finally, Scenario D is, again, effectively the same as Scenario C, with the addition of cuts to the library hours to bring them to the level that is fully funded by the county. And so that's the only difference, and that difference is what keeps the city at 30% or higher for the entire duration

2:31:19of the current 10-year forecast. I do wanna… I say this a lot, that a forecast is a point in time, but it really is. There are constant dynamics that change

2:31:29Everything. Our insurance could come back different than we expect. Our revenues could come in higher or lower. There are potential things on the horizon right now that we're exploring that could both be higher revenues, and that would be very exciting.

2:31:43And there's the looming possibility of an initiative in November that could be

2:31:49catastrophic for our general fund.

2:31:52So we budget with the best information that we have right now, but there are certain things that we simply can't plan for until we have better information, and we know that that's gonna happen.

2:32:00Based on the information that we have right now, based on our best estimates, this is what we would expect the forecast to look like.

2:32:08So, finally, we hope that you will be able… that you will provide us with some direction on how you would like to see this two-year budget developed, so that we can bring back an excellent budget book for your review and consideration in June. Thank you.

2:32:20Thank you. What a great presentation. I appreciate that.

2:32:25You know, we've had a head start.

2:32:27In making sure that we right-size our budget. And, just so you know.

2:32:33Every city in California is going to have a deficit because of what's happening on the federal level and what is happening on the state level. The county, if their tax does not pass, they will have a $1 billion deficit. So, this is affecting

2:32:51all forms of government, including local government. So, let's start with the Council who would like to start with questions?

2:33:00Sorry, Councilmember Cassano. Thank you.

2:33:04Thank you both for your presentation. It's very helpful and informative.

2:33:08F…

2:33:09quite a few questions, I'll say some and pass it on, maybe come back. Maybe they'll get addressed by other people as well.

2:33:15First, I'll ask a rather uncomfortable question. I know a lot of this is uncomfortable.

2:33:20Well, you highlight that a lot of the difficulty is structural

2:33:24the structural operating budget deficits, you say, so…

2:33:27in my mind, correct me if I'm wrong, when I think of structural.

2:33:31it means salaries. It means… to me, it means…

2:33:35salary increases that are going up faster than revenue increases. Now, maybe I'm wrong, maybe you see it differently, but that's… when I hear structural deficit, I think what contributes to that, and that's what comes to my mind.

2:33:45First, would you attribute it to that? If not.

2:33:50Good. I don't think fully. It can. It is certainly a contributor, but it is not the only contributor. And so, in developing this budget, a major goal was that the changes that departments make be permanent and ongoing.

2:34:05And so, those that have been done already, we consider to be permanent and ongoing, and so those are reductions in other areas, whether that's

2:34:13travel and training, or supplies, or contractual services. So it is still decreasing the level of service, but it's potentially doing so in ways that don't affect full-time salaried staff, but it could also be part-time staff. So it's… it's more complex than just salaries, it's all of the different dynamics.

2:34:30Ultimately, a structural deficit is simply that our ongoing expenses over the long term are higher than our ongoing predicted revenues. So it doesn't have to necessarily be staff, but certainly personnel is the largest component of our budget, so it is an impact. Okay, thank you.

2:34:46Another thing in this, this has come up a lot, that there's these projections where

2:34:51when City Hall, the service is paid off, Then there's this bump.

2:34:57Increase in funds.

2:35:00My concern is that…

2:35:02I almost, you know, dread saying this, but the library. With the library, there was a provision that

2:35:08If it passes, that part of the operating costs could be paid for in the first 10 years by the tax revenue.

2:35:15And then at year 10, There's no provision for it.

2:35:19And what I've heard people say, proponents say, well, that's because the city hall will be paid for, and that money will be there. So when I look at this… this bump in revenue, I think, well, there's already people laying claim to it.

2:35:32And I've also looked at the numbers for the library and seen, as construction costs have gone up.

2:35:37the funds that are available for operating costs, even within those first 10 years, are getting squeezed out. So, one of the concerns I have about the whole measure is, where is that money going to come from?

2:35:46And I just… I want to ask you, have you made projections around those scenarios? Have you made projections where you've looked at the… at Measure C and said, okay, if…

2:35:58the costs escalate as they have, I guess.

2:36:01It's gone from 21 million, lower than that in the beginning, but now up to $37 million.

2:36:06Squeezing out money that might be available for operating costs.

2:36:10Which is a burden that the general fund would have to take on.

2:36:14And certainly, at year 10, it would have to take it on. And that burden is somewhere between half a million and maybe a million dollars, depending on assumptions and timing and services provided. So, has that been looked at?

2:36:25We have not yet done that analysis. If it is something that is directed by the city manager or by the city council, we could do that analysis. At this time, because it is a citizen's initiative on the ballot, we are waiting to do that type of analysis or anything related to financing until after we know if the measure has

2:36:41But I'd just like to suggest that, you know, if it passes, that that is something that really does need to be looked at, because it… If it passes, we would absolutely add it to the model, because it would become a component of our long-term expected costs.

2:36:54Okay,

2:36:59I will pass it on to others, and then maybe I'll come back with others if they don't address mine. Okay.

2:37:04Who would like to go next?

2:37:06How would you always?

2:37:09Go ahead.

2:37:09Thank you, Mayor, and thank you for the presentation. You know, always, you know, I love all the details, and I really want to thank you for Exhibit, or Attachment B, which is all… every single thing we could possibly cut.

2:37:26And that's what we've been asking for for a long time. So we can actually see, perhaps we want to change things around, or, you know, some of them might be incremental changes, or some changes are so small, maybe they don't really matter, but they have a bigger impact. So I think that, you know, all the time that staff put into creating that,

2:37:46table with the details has been really, I think, time well spent, and I really appreciate that.

2:37:51One of the things… Like, I have a lot of detailed questions.

2:37:59But one of the things is there, you know,

2:38:04Recommendation from staff of a preferred scenario?

2:38:13in developing these… in developing these, my primary goal was that all be viable, because ultimately, the decision at this point is a policy decision that reflects the community's values and the Council's interpretation of the community's values. So whether we use

2:38:31A portion of fund balance, or a significant portion of fund balance, to keep service levels at higher levels.

2:38:38ultimately, that is a decision of the City Council. None of the proposed scenarios risk the city running out of money. The city has very stable reserves regardless. None of them touch the EDRF.

2:38:50And so… None of these would be necessarily

2:38:55bad, it's just really a decision of the Council's policy and prioritization.

2:38:59And if I could add to that, just, and I do want to commend both Claire and Crystal, and all of the departments for coming up with this very detailed list. You know, I also wanted to make sure that the Council really saw

2:39:16the options before you, and again, knowing that all of you have very different views on this, this was… this was certainly, and I'll, again, give credit to the finance team, our attempt to try to,

2:39:28to give you all that information that you can take in or leave at whatever you feel most comfortable with. So starting there, but also because

2:39:37As far as our recommendation, as Claire said, this is a policy matter. I think that one of the most important things, though, that we wanted to express was that, you know, again, we do have… we're coming at this from a very stable position, which is very much different than what we

2:39:55what we had 6, 7 years ago. And kind of one of the bigger items before you is

2:40:02You know, the general fund reserves, and how far you would like to dip into that, as far as the one-time expenditures.

2:40:09but making sure that what we're telling the story is we are not proposing to do operating costs using general fund reserves. And that's really important, because there are a lot of cities out there that are actually stuck in more

2:40:25unenviable positions than we are, that are looking to, to, like.

2:40:30to stabilize their budget using one-time fund balance, and that's what we successfully, in these scenarios, avoided. So, I just wanted to really make that clear for the public and for the council that

2:40:43The reserves are stable, they remain stable, even if you choose to dip at… for a temporary period of time below the 17% policy.

2:40:53you know, again, we have means to bring that back, but it does not impact our operating budget, and we're not using reserves to balance the operating budget. That was really the biggest message that we wanted to get across with all of these scenarios.

2:41:06Thank you for that clarification.

2:41:09So,

2:41:12you know, I think there's a lot of, quality of life items in here, and, I think it's gonna be, you know, a lot of horse trading here amongst us. And I don't know what the, you know, the list is so long.

2:41:27And how do you want us to, like, horse trade on that? I mean, throw us in a, you know, throw us in there and fight it out, or what do you want us to do?

2:41:37I think, the most important and helpful is to understand the overall direction.

2:41:44So even something like between B and C, or absolutely not A, absolutely not D, definitely D, whatever it may be, direction on, which of these, because

2:41:58to your point, we would be here all evening, and there are other things on the agenda this evening that I know are also very important.

2:42:06So… Unless… if there are very specific things that it's, like, absolutely not.

2:42:11It would be very helpful to have at least the high-level policy guidance, and staff can work together on the detail.

2:42:18The challenge will be, if we remove things.

2:42:22Then, either other things must be added from the list.

2:42:27Or there will be more use of fund balance. And so…

2:42:34I emphasize the amount of work that departments put in, because I wanted…

2:42:38To be very clear that there aren't

2:42:40extra options. There aren't easier things that we're not proposing. We already did the easy things if they existed. We did those in the last budget, we did those in this budget, we did everything we possibly could. There aren't easier things. And so, as you get deeper into that list, it gets more unpleasant.

2:42:56And so there may not be easy swaps that remain. And so that's where I'm hesitant to do the level of detail line item vetoes,

2:43:06Unless the Council is willing to accept a higher use of fund balance. It's really the ultimate trade-off at this point.

2:43:13Great. And, one last question,

2:43:22the… Library, $100,000.

2:43:27you know, Looks like it creates a 1% difference in the fund… general fund reserve.

2:43:36And is that correct? Is there, you know, is there… Not quite 1%, because the 29 is… it's, you know, it's probably… I think it's 29.3% or something, so it's… it's not quite that, but $100,000 a year does make a difference. Okay. It does, ultimately. It adds up.

2:43:49So…

2:43:51If not the $100,000 for the additional library hours, it would be $100,000 somewhere else to keep that 30%. And based on the other things on the list, especially those at $100,000, it doesn't really get easier. Not that I would think that library hours are anything close to easy, but there aren't…

2:44:09more palatable options, necessarily. Okay, so…

2:44:12I think, you know, I had asked this, and then, can you explain why we can't

2:44:18sort of…

2:44:19have that general number that we're working towards so that we can sort of fill up the buckets as we think is appropriate. And, you know, why is that a bad idea?

2:44:29the challenge is the reserve is based on the percentage of expenditures, so as you decrease expenditures, you also change the reserve level, and so as you change that, it's always a moving target. So we can give you a target, but it immediately changes the minute you change a number. They're all related to each other, and so that's why it's hard to give you a dollar amount. And so…

2:44:49because we don't have a model up here to, you know, run scenarios, and I'm not really sure it's the best use of our time at this point in the evening,

2:44:58if there are scenarios that you want us to consider, if there… if you want us to come back with four versions between B and C, or something… I mean, really, something that allows us to give you

2:45:08If these are not scenarios that you are comfortable with, and you would like to see something else, something that allows us to keep

2:45:14This decision moving forward and support you in getting closer to what you would be comfortable adopting.

2:45:19Okay.

2:45:21And we have a chance to comment again, so I'll just stop here. Thank you.

2:45:26We'll go with Councilmember Weisinger next.

2:45:29Thank you so much, Mayor. Thank you so much to our finance team. It seems that we're definitely dealing with a structural issue, you know, not a one-time thing that we're trying to change our long-term approach. And I was looking at the scenarios, and I'm more aligned

2:45:45technically with Scenario C, because I do really want us to put us in a position where we are starting to right-size the way that we navigate our budget, but then when I look at the presentation, I mean, just the EC Stars alone is something that has been so beneficial to our community. I would never think of getting rid of that. I would never think of getting rid of… you know, we fought to… we fought to the death in the middle of the diaspora.

2:46:07the legislative team, and now to get rid of them after we've done so much work with them as far as going up to Sacramento. So I'm wondering if there is a way that we can… a path that reflects the discipline

2:46:20of Scenario C, but while also having an implementation that avoids unnecessary disruption in the near term. So we're kind of phasing into right-sizing our budget. So I do have a couple of questions that I did want to ask, and the first is, can the staff speak

2:46:36to the risk of underfunding the infrastructure and replacement. We know that that's something that's very… been very important to me, as far as the way that we deal with maintenance, because a lot of times that's how we get into the one-time reverse.

2:46:47I'm sorry, reserve situations dealing with deferred maintenance. So, can the staff speak to the risk of underfunding infrastructure and replacement programs over time, particularly if we take a more phased approach to implementation? I do have a couple of other questions, but if you can speak to that first, that would be great.

2:47:05Yeah, absolutely.

2:47:08As you noted, Councilmember, we have come to the City Council, I've been here almost 3 years now,

2:47:16In my time here, we've come to the City Council a number of times for one-time uses of fund balance for major infrastructure. And some of these things are things like pool re-clustering.

2:47:24We know pools have to be replastered. It's… it's… it's not…

2:47:27necessarily a surprise, but because of the city's fiscal distress, we were unable to set aside enough funds and save for it. And so, by setting aside money, $300,000, I mean, if you recall, the pool project, I think, was about $2.6 million. So, $300,000 is…

2:47:41significant, and in the scope of the city's operating budget, to get to $300,000, really $350,000 or $450 if you include the fire vehicles, it is a significant undertaking to set aside that much.

2:47:55But it… it still would take us…

2:47:57I won't do the mental math right now, but it would take us a long time to save up $2.6 million if we're doing $300,000 a year. And that's also thinking about long-term deferred maintenance. There's a long list of things that our Public Works Department is thinking about. Roofs.

2:48:11Playground repairs, all kinds of different things that we know need to happen, major repairs to the public safety building, all kinds of different things that we need to keep our facilities functioning.

2:48:20And so, we can decrease those amounts if we don't want to cut other things, but it does then present a risk that we would, down the road, need to come back for one-time fund uses for those things that we weren't able to save for.

2:48:33Okay, well, my other two questions is, is there a way to structure a phased approach that ultimately achieves the outcomes of scenarios? I guess you kind of… you kind of dipped into that, but is there a way to do that?

2:48:46And if we were to take a phased approach, what guardrails would we need to ensure we're not creating ongoing reliance? So basically, how do we break this cycle? Because we've had this conversation so many times, and we keep saying we don't want to keep doing the one-time fund balances for a roof.

2:49:02and for pools, and we still continue up this cycle. How do we break the cycle, but kind of save some of the things that are important to us?

2:49:11I know it's a load of questions, the whole point of the whole presentation, but I think that it's very important because so many of the things… it's not like we're out here spending money on

2:49:20frivolous stuff. I mean, I don't want to fight with Councilmember Motayama, but… and I would like not to, so how can we do that, but also make sure we're not… you're not coming back to us every meeting for another one-time balance, another one-time balance?

2:49:37the… The way to fix a structural budget deficit is to change our ongoing expenses.

2:49:44And the sooner we do that, the larger the impact is for the next 10 years on our forecast. If we delay, then we also… not only are we using fund balance that we may still need in the future.

2:49:58But we also may not even be, in some cases, building up a small amount of fund balance so we don't have to make cuts in 3 years, because our costs really are escalating. We are hoping and praying that our insurance doesn't go through the roof again, and we are budgeting for a significant increase, but it could be even higher. There are things that could be

2:50:18Really, really large, and so the…

2:50:20the structural changes, the sooner you do them, the bigger the impact that they have. And so we have that option, we can delay, we can do lower, long-term contributions to infrastructure, we can make this change. So a phased approach might look like smaller contributions and then increasing them.

2:50:37the caution I would provide is that our expenses aren't coming down for another 6 years, and so it won't necessarily be easier in the next budget cycle to make those contributions fit into the budget, and so the structural changes ultimately

2:50:52To fully balance the budget, to fully right-size, it is… it is seriously looking at what can we afford as a city.

2:51:00Thank you. Claire… I'm sorry, Claire, can you put up the,

2:51:04the chart with all the scenarios on it? Yes.

2:51:09Okay, so this essentially is what… we're looking at, and…

2:51:15you can… you can see that the main difference, again, between scenarios A and B and C and D sides, all of those… some of those really uncomfortable cuts, is how much you want to use fund balance for the fire truck… for the fire engine. Sorry, engine.

2:51:33That really is what it is, and if this Council is uncomfortable, as you have indicated in the past, but this is your decision now, that you are okay with going, you know, dipping below the reserve policy.

2:51:47for at least a couple of years while we pay for this fire engine, then that would be the scenario B, and

2:51:54And that's what you're talking about, Councilmember. If you wanted to make sure you're maintaining the steady reserves as we are, then it's… I mean, you're trading what you're taking out of the fund balance to put that in the operating budget. That's really what it is.

2:52:09it comes… essentially seems… I mean, very, very simply, how much fund balance do you want to use?

2:52:14in the next two-year budget, and that's where we're… that's really the biggest decision, I think, that we're asking from the Council.

2:52:23Thank you so much, I am complete.

2:52:27Councilmember Cassandra.

2:52:30All right, I have some questions then.

2:52:34you know.

2:52:36my third term on the council, and now we're going back to those days, but this was not created because of the city. Again, this is created because of what's happening on the federal level.

2:52:48And, the holes that they are making, and, the takeaways they are doing on social services and cuts on the federal level that is affecting the state level, and the state

2:53:01the county is trying to fill the holes because of the takeaways from the state of California. So this is trickling over to cities, and I want to make sure that we continue with being financially responsible

2:53:15And in order to be financially responsible, I wanted to ask

2:53:20A couple of questions, and do you see that we have to let go or make any, changes in personnel?

2:53:29No, no, no, there are no expected, changes in staffing and headcount, there's no expected layoffs, and currently, while we budget for vacancy savings, because it is prudent, because we do expect some level of vacancies, we're not budgeting to freeze any vacant positions.

2:53:46the importance of the 115 Trust, and to make sure that we continue to make a dent on that.

2:53:54you know, we have a lot of catching up to do, and I want to make sure that we continue to make that, dent on it. What do you see

2:54:02on that, with the different scenarios. So, in the current two-year budget, we do not currently project any additional contributions to the Section 115 trust. We do estimate interest returns on the invested funds in that trust.

2:54:18Just an estimate based on historical returns in that area. But we do not currently estimate either

2:54:25We estimate neither uses of the Section 115 trust to pay for pension obligations, nor additional contributions. Now, if the city were to have a significant surplus.

2:54:34Maybe somebody wants to give us a million dollars because they love the city so much. We could potentially put some of that into the Section 115 trust. The Comprehensive Policies has the waterfall provisions. So, for example, if we have a surplus in this fiscal year, we would put additional funds towards the Section 115.

2:54:50But absent that waterfall, and absent other action by the City Council, we currently do not have

2:54:56contributions to the Section 115 or use of the Section 115 in the next year budget, with the expectation that we would likely consider or recommend to the Council a consideration of using the Section 1… beginning to use the Section 115 trust, and a graduated approach, beginning in the subsequent two-year budget. Okay, but I don't want to repeat history.

2:55:14I… it's been, you know, many years of miserable years, having to deal with, this budget deficit. I don't want to go back there. Period. So, you know, I won't… I don't want to go back to the old days where just,

2:55:28Spending what we don't have.

2:55:31And that's the number one thing I want to make sure with, in the future. We see difficult times ahead, you know, cities next door.

2:55:40I'm not saying they're directly next door, but close to us. $30 million budget. They have to get rid of hundreds of employees.

2:55:49Same goes with our largest city in the East Bay here.

2:55:52The largest city across the bay.

2:55:55$900 million deficit. Yeah, so we're not at that, because we've had a head start to right-size our budget and do the right thing. So I want to make sure that our residents know.

2:56:09That, you know, we will have difficult times ahead because of what's happening on the federal government.

2:56:16And the takeaways there, especially when it comes to the takeaway of healthcare, Medi-Cal, and that's why the county has that tax. So, before you vote.

2:56:29I want to make sure that residents look at everything, and look at what is at stake.

2:56:35Because a lot of these things that we take for granted, like clinics in San Pablo, that could easily go away.

2:56:44And, you know, so these are tough, tough decisions that, every city in California will have to make, and this city including. So I urge my council to right-size this budget.

2:56:57We cannot be, you know, fiscally irresponsible like the old days.

2:57:03You know, we have to do this right. So, so that's where I stand on that, and, I like, I have a particular choice for different scenarios.

2:57:16But, you know, cuts are cuts, and we will have to make those cuts. So,

2:57:22And that's the most important thing, because we don't want to get to, where many of our cities in California… we have cities in the East Bay that have used all their reserves already.

2:57:33And many cities are close to bankruptcy. We're not at that level. We're… we're doing fine, but getting below

2:57:42that percentage of that 17%. I, you know, I want to make sure that we discuss this thoroughly, and if we, in my opinion, if we need to make the cuts, let's make the cuts.

2:57:55My priority always is public safety. You know, we are in a fire danger zone. Our homes are in danger. We have an earthquake fault, right? That is overdue. You know, and fire danger

2:58:08public safety is a priority for all cities. And you look at the cities that, put on the wayside public safety.

2:58:16You know, and look at the trouble that their city's got in by getting rid of their public safety and making those drastic cuts. We're not going to do that here, because we know the importance of, public safety here. So, you know, we'll have to make the cut somewhere else, and,

2:58:33you know, and I urge, my colleagues to do the right thing and, further discuss. And, who else would like to, ask questions or make a statement?

2:58:45If we're on to comments, I didn't… I didn't have any questions, so that's why I didn't speak there, but if we're on to comments, first, I just wanted to thank all of our staff. I know it's not just you who have worked on this, and I think

2:59:00Clearly, you did a lot to cut what you could cut before you brought us options, and you brought us some very thoughtful options with real

2:59:09decisions that we can make, and all the background information we need, and I, too, appreciated the long list at the end. Although, as I read it, I was like, wow, that's worse, and that's even worse, and that's even worse, but it's good to see that, and to know what the actual options are, even if they're terrible options.

2:59:28I strongly support the move to

2:59:32funding the internal service fund contributions. I think we have to do that. The reason we keep being in this situation of having to use reserves for one-time costs is because

2:59:43Historically, that hadn't happened. If that had started happening 10 or 20 years ago, before, you know, the 2019 situation, we'd be in a very different situation.

2:59:53So I think that is maybe the most important part of this, and I really appreciate that you put it in there, even though it meant making a lot of other hard decisions. It would have been really easy for you to just say, we couldn't fit it in this time, and then we'd have to, you know, try to fight to get it back in there, so I really appreciate that you just put it in there, even though it's hard.

3:00:13And I also appreciate that you've figured out how to better utilize special revenue for allowable costs, which makes it, you know, less of a drain on a general fund. So I think you're…

3:00:25you're doing all of the things to find the money where we can, and there's still hard decisions. So where I am at, and I don't really like any of these budget options, I'm guessing all of my colleagues feel the same, but I'm…

3:00:41leaning somewhere in between B and C. I don't think we can do A, I don't think it's responsible. I don't think we should do D, because I don't think we should be, slashing our library hours.

3:00:55So for me, it's somewhere between B and C. The one part of B that I really don't want to see happen, and there's a lot of hard things in B, but I think

3:01:05I think, reducing the landscaping maintenance contract would be a mistake, and I know there's even deeper cuts in C, which I certainly don't want to see, but even in B, it's a lot of cuts, and our residents will notice that, and

3:01:20the complaints will filter up to our… our staff. So if it's not through this contract service, our staff are going to have to deal with it. Is that gonna mean more overtime? Is that just going to mean a lot more complaints? I just really think…

3:01:34considering the amount of money it is, and it is, you know, a big chunk of change, but I just don't think it's worthwhile. It's… it's not gonna feel great to the residents. Some of the other things in B, I think people are gonna be really sad about, like losing the pancake breakfast, but I think if you ask residents, like.

3:01:52would you rather lose the pancake breakfast or lose landscaping? I think they'd say lose the pancake breakfast, so…

3:01:59I think it may be… it's… it's a lot bigger of a difference of a cut than some of the other cuts in option B, so I'd like to see that come out of there.

3:02:09I could live with some of the things in option C. One is I could live with decreasing or eliminating our July 4th contributions, or, like, ramping it down over time. I don't want to see the July 4th celebration go away, but it is mostly paid for through sponsorships.

3:02:25And I think we either need to ramp out up our sponsorship outreach, or we need to figure out how to just reduce some costs. But, like, I think we can still have a really robust event.

3:02:35but decrease the expenses. Like, why are we putting that much money into 4th of July when we're gonna cut all these other special events throughout the year? So I… I want to see a balance there.

3:02:47I don't… this won't have a big impact on the budget, but I could also live with decreasing the council travel. How we did it at BART was we had our own council… each council member had our budgets just like we did here, but if,

3:03:01or sorry, each director, but if a director really wanted to go to something and they'd used up their budget, they could go for a vote of the BART board, and we did this a couple of times when somebody really wanted to go to a conference, and it was going to be expensive, and we always voted for them to use it, because not everybody used their own budget, so I think it wouldn't actually have a big impact on what we were able to go to, so I would be fine with that, and considering we're making hard decisions, I think

3:03:26That's a place to go.

3:03:28I know at least one of my council members doesn't want to do this, but I am okay, even though I don't like it, with getting rid of EC stars, at least for now. And part of the reason is it takes us

3:03:40We can't even get rid of it for the next budget year, because we've already committed to it. So if we are looking at a structural problem, and we know it's always going to take us 2 years to cancel it, like, I think actually now is the time. Hopefully we can bring it back in the future, but that's just a hard one because of how we have to plan for it.

3:03:59it is a good program, but again, I'm, like, thinking about what's more essential and less essential, and maybe we could find grant money for it, I don't know. But, I think that's just a hard one to pay for through the general fund budget.

3:04:13I also want to point out, but I'm hoping not to get into a long back-and-forth conversation about this.

3:04:19But I do just want to point out, depending what we decide on the next item on our agenda, that is a big cost in our budget. I know it's now paid out of the COPS grant, but the COPS grant could pay for a lot of things that we're paying for out of the general fund. It's not restricted just to blocks.

3:04:36That is another decision that will be made very soon, but depending what happens with that, either that's not going to change the budget, or if we don't approve it, then it would impact the budget. So that's just something to think of. I don't know if there's any other thing, any other contracts coming to us that are like that, but that is the one we clearly know about.

3:04:55And that is the same impact as, you know, reducing the library hours, so…

3:05:00It is a big impact.

3:05:01So that's all I have for now. I look forward to hearing what the other council members have to say and seeing some more budget options. No, thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. I, completely agree with you. I also support

3:05:16C closer to B, instead of, B. So C is my, choice, making,

3:05:24the necessary cuts that need to be done, and being financially responsible. You know, I am doing my best to make sure that corporate sponsorships for, July 4th continues, and, thank you to

3:05:37Chris Jones and, reaching out to our, corporate, sponsors here in El Cerrito and regionally, and,

3:05:45So, that's what we're doing. So the majority of our budget coming from the 4th of July is coming for corporate sponsorship, so

3:05:54Yeah, so…

3:05:56looking at, you know, again, every form of government, the school district, they're on the edge, and so, it's not a good picture, but here in El Cerrito, we can make the necessary changes.

3:06:11And hopefully we can, get this approved today, and then you can work to right-size

3:06:17our budget. I agree with the Council, I agree with the Mayor Pro Tem. Let's cut our budget for Council trips. You know, most of mine are paid for by the League of Cities, so

3:06:29Very few of my trips are done by the City of El Cerrito, so, a lot of my traveling is with the air board, and they pay for that, so, you know, I'd be willing to get rid of, my, personal

3:06:45personal traveling to make sure that we right-size the budget, and I hope my colleagues can look at that closely. I know that, you know, I do most of the traveling, but I'm hoping that you will see the importance of right-sizing this budget now.

3:07:04Thank you.

3:07:07I have a few…

3:07:09observations, concerns, and questions. And kind of going back to the general topic of the library and projecting that cost and how that fits in, you mentioned you haven't done that yet. Similarly.

3:07:21With the real property transfer tax, you mentioned that being a catastrophe on the horizon.

3:07:27I haven't seen polls, I don't know that the language is even finished yet, but…

3:07:31I think there's a very likely possibility… very… it's very likely that it will pass.

3:07:36And I do agree that it's going to have a huge hit on every city that uses it.

3:07:40And I'm just wondering why that hasn't been part of the…

3:07:43budget projections. I mean, do you do it sort of on the side somewhere, and it's not there yet, so it's not public, but, I mean, it seems like

3:07:50you know, the library is not that far away, and that's not that far away either. It seems prudent to me to at least model that as scenarios to consider.

3:07:58So, I ran it through the model. Okay.

3:08:02If you take away 10% of your budget, you run out of money really fast, and so the model's not very…

3:08:07There's not that much value, because we also know that if these things, specifically if the property transfer tax, if the initiative that were to

3:08:17abolish property transfer taxes for charter cities in California were to pass in November, then we would come back to the City Council and go through a very, very difficult process of

3:08:27absolutely transforming the services that the city provides, as we would have to. So the model just shows us falling off a fiscal cliff, but we know that won't happen, and at the same time.

3:08:38until that is real, it's… I don't recommend that we budget for something that may or may not happen.

3:08:45to the very large detriment of city services, the level of cuts that would have to happen would be enormous to… for us to basically budget as though that… that is happening. And so… so we… we're looking at it, we're very much paying attention, but it's not helpful for us to budget for it. Oh, I'm sorry, Councilmember. I would also add that we…

3:09:04This is exactly what we did back in 2021, is we cut 10% of our budget, we cut 10% of our staff, we had many layoffs, services ended, and actually the pandemic

3:09:16was… was not… that was even prior to the pandemic, when a lot of these cuts were being made, so I… I can tell you exactly what it'll look like. We will cut 10% of our staff, we'll cut 10% of our budget, and many services will cease. I mean, it would just be a matter of figuring out the details, but we've been here before. And I'm not… I'm not suggesting

3:09:35Coming up with a budget now that… The…

3:09:38rejects that or accounts for that, but I do think it's important to have it in mind and make your own model so you know that it's very likely to happen.

3:09:48And some of the choices we might make now, and I can't think of…

3:09:53Specifics, but some of the choices we might make now would be different Given…

3:09:59The passage of the… or the repeal, or the loss of… of the…

3:10:02real property transfer tax. It's a whole different scenario, I agree, like the same manager said. But, you know, knowing that's on the… that could be on the horizon, very likely is on the horizon, we might approach things differently now.

3:10:14I think that it would be pertinent for us to expect the worst so we won't be disappointed, but it's not… I don't think it… I mean, we would be paralyzed if we tried to come up with

3:10:23that type of scenario. What we would do is, if that were to happen, I also believe that

3:10:30once it's on the ballot, I know that there's going to be a ton of opposition against it. There are collaborations that are already coming forward, with a lot of various groups. The League of California Cities also has come out in strong opposition to it. It's not…

3:10:46all that popular, actually, right now, although that could totally change. It'll be a part of the governor's race, and there will absolutely be lawsuits as soon as it… if it does pass immediately, so…

3:10:58I think that while we definitely have it in mind, we know that we would have to pivot. We're… we've gotten really good at pivoting, here in the city when something hits us, and so we would certainly do that. And I just really think that, you know.

3:11:14we also have to be very realistic. We also have… we have to move forward. We have to pass this budget, or give you a recommended budget for the budget to pass by July 1st. And so, we… we're doing our very best to be as optimistic as possible.

3:11:29I think one other thing, just to briefly note about the proposed statewide initiative that would, among other things, eliminate real property transfer taxes is that

3:11:40ACA 13 will be on the same ballot. That is an additional constitutional amendment that was proposed by the legislature a couple of years ago.

3:11:50Because, the Howard Jarvis Initiative, imposes a two-thirds requirement on special taxes, AC813 would require it also to pass by two-thirds. So not only will there be litigation over the ability of this statewide initiative.

3:12:08to, undo taxes that were approved by voters under the applicable rules that Howard Jarvis itself put into place. There will also be litigation over what is the appropriate vote threshold that's required for it.

3:12:22I believe there is also a two-year phase-out for the real property transfer tax, and so even if it… even if everything else happens.

3:12:30it's not an immediate cutoff of the fund, so there's reasons built into it to, plan… to plan for it, but to take the time that's available to implement those budgeting concerns.

3:12:43Okay, thank you, that's… that's fair, that's helpful.

3:12:46Yeah, one of the things I wanted to mention, you know, counties and cities and school districts, if this passes, you know, we'll have a lot of bankruptcies coming up. So, so we are going to take the lead, the League of California Cities, and a president this year.

3:13:05We are going to, try to defeat this, and, we will, include labor on this. Labor, will, work with the league, GANT with CSAC, the county organization, and special districts will work on this as well, because this would be

3:13:22This would totally ruin the state of California if this ever passes. This is extreme, extreme coming from the right, and

3:13:31And they're trying to make corporations, take the lead on everything. No, that's not gonna happen here.

3:13:38A couple other, just, observations and concerns I have. One, you talked about moving with…

3:13:45contract with the… well, not renewing, I guess the contract with the grant writer and advocate lobbyist. I've questioned all along the value of the lobbying.

3:13:54I think the grants are pretty clear that they bring in more than they cost.

3:13:59So if you want to start looking at that, I would just like to throw out

3:14:03Personally, I am fine with a cut in the lobbying efforts.

3:14:06I feel less so about the grants, because I do think they bring in funds that, you know, maybe they… maybe pays for itself.

3:14:12To the best of my knowledge, I think our lobbying has resulted in federal earmarks that are

3:14:17larger than the grants, but… Yes, actually, so the… the federal earmarks are actually worked on by the lobbyists, and actually, I can just give you some, like, ballpark figures. But I'm sure they're working on them, even if they're not getting the fees from us to work on them.

3:14:33They've got many, many clients. Well, no, actually, because each, earmark application is specific to El Cerrito, because it's for El Cerrito projects. So, for instance, in this current year, actually, we just applied for $16.8 million

3:14:51of federal earmarks. Those are for H&A vegetation management, Central Park renovations, Ohlone Greenway project, that's to improve two segments, of the Ohlone Greenway, as well as the, TOD at the BART station.

3:15:09I will also mention the earmarks we have technically gotten appropriated, however, there… we are waiting to… for that to be finalized based on the Trump administration, but technically speaking, from an act of Congress.

3:15:25For last year, we received 3 earmarks, and we actually just got word last week, because of the Homeland Security Bill.

3:15:34We technically have received $4.9 million in federal earmarks appropriated. One is for the Plaza TOD Complete Streets.

3:15:46Another is for H&A Vegetation Management, and the last one is for the Community Housing Works project at the old Taco Bell site in the north end of town. So…

3:15:56With respect to the lobbying, I know it's… it's hard to quantify in terms of what the benefits are. Obviously, the federal earmarks are one of them. There's a dollar amount to that, but we also have been working with our lobbyists, for a couple years now, both with Caltrans, in terms of trying to get additional funding, for safety improvements on San Pablo Avenue, and then more recently, and every day.

3:16:21literally, we are talking almost to CPPG, about the real estate transfer tax. I know that, I participated on a call with the League of California Cities today, and what I found out, is that it was a group of us from the East Bay that all have real estate transfer taxes.

3:16:37And it looks like to me that El Cerrito is leading the pack, because, you know, I was able to show them that, you know, two months ago, we already went to Sacramento, we've talked with our legislators, we've talked about how we've been, you know, talking to Aragin and Wicks multiple, multiple times about how this impacts El Cerrito. I even shared our briefing sheet to cities like Oakland, Emeryville, Alameda, all cities that have way more resources than

3:17:02class.

3:17:03And so that was… that was a defining moment this morning of really realizing how important our lobbyists have been to us.

3:17:10Well, thank you. It's good to hear. And again, I stand corrected. The last thing I'd say, I just want to express a concern. We talk about taking

3:17:20Going into the fund balance, which is reserves, right?

3:17:23And my concern is, Normally, when you would do that, you'd have

3:17:28A plan ahead of you to…

3:17:30Fung him back. And I don't see that, and I just don't… I can't…

3:17:34And the scenarios I've seen, the things I think about, I just don't see when that's going to happen. So that's one of my biggest concerns, is if we allow ourselves to do that.

3:17:41then when do they get replenished? And I'll leave… and of all the different choices, I'll just say my preference is for C.

3:17:47I'll leave it at that.

3:17:50Councilmember Motillo.

3:17:53Thank you, Mayor.

3:17:54Okay, so here's my thoughts on what we should do. I agree with Councilmember Saltzman. I would like something between Scenario B and Scenario C.

3:18:04I also would like to understand how sensitive our RPTT is. So, you know, if we take a 5% cut or a 10% cut.

3:18:14How low does our,

3:18:17general fund balance go. So, if, you know, if we have a third, you know, say we do D, and we have 30%, and then our RPT slows down, not because it's repealed, but because home sales slow down.

3:18:33you know, will that… how far will that drop by? You know, if it's 10%, I can see 10% happening pretty easily. How… how sensitive is that, to our, reserve balance? So, if it's gonna go down a lot.

3:18:49I think that really pushes us towards C and D, so that we can stay above water and put aside money for infrastructure.

3:18:58So… Kind of.

3:19:01chicken and egg there, but I think that's really important to consider, because it's… it's likely.

3:19:08likely gonna slow down at some point, right? So,

3:19:14I think, you know, we've been lucky so far that home sales are always a little bit better than we hoped, or closer to what we were expecting, but again, I don't think that will last forever. And also, I also agree with Councilmember Saltzman about the landscaping.

3:19:32work, because if you don't maintain landscaping, trying to put it back is going to be very expensive.

3:19:39So I think maintaining what we have is going to be really important.

3:19:48I think, you know, it's gonna be sad to lose the lights on San Pablo Avenue.

3:19:54But, you know, I hope that maybe community members might step up, Chamber might take over some of these things. And I think that's where, if we can't do the services, and it's important to the community, I hope that many community members might start to take on some of these smaller things.

3:20:11It's okay that we don't have recognition dinners.

3:20:17I think that's totally fine.

3:20:20And then, as far as the CPPG, the lobbying and grant writing, my feeling is more getting rid of the grant writing, because I think that that has not panned out for us very well.

3:20:33And, you know, potentially finding another grant writer

3:20:37With a better track record, or maybe a lower cost.

3:20:42would be, I think, prudent for us. The lobbying part, I think, is great.

3:20:46The grant writing portion, I think, is very… has been rather disappointing.

3:20:54So, that's…

3:20:55I know it's kind of vague, but I think between B and C, I'd like us to, trend towards the 29%, reserve level. I think 30…

3:21:08is… I don't know if that's really gonna help.

3:21:12But I think that 29% is a better goal, but somewhere in between B and C.

3:21:18Rana.

3:21:20One thing I… go ahead. I just wanted to, address, the rail property transfer tax. I think that certainly we have worked and will continue to work with, our tax consultants, HDL, on looking at, like, kind of the entire tax

3:21:35You will notice that this really is most… is focusing on expenses and not revenues, and that's by design.

3:21:42As, you know, Claire described, the target-based budgeting that we, that we are employing here. One of the things about the real property transfer tax that we, when we even

3:21:53research this as part of the Charter City, is that we actually have been holding steady for decades at about, you know, between 200 and 300 sales of property a year. And that really has maintained. I know that the volume went up during the pandemic, as well as the prices went up during the pandemic, which

3:22:11accounted for some of those spikes. I think we've kind of actually started to settle in, but one of the things that also is the… that a couple of years down the line, we will see is an increase in property tax, because once those sell and they flip, especially if they're pre-Prop 13 and they sell and they flip.

3:22:30then we will realize that in the out years for property tax. So there is a little bit of a correlation there, in the out years. And again, we're being extremely conservative and as realistic as possible with our revenue, so

3:22:44this is all essentially assuming revenues stay pretty flat, and as Claire indicated, even when it came to talking about the surplus, if we have a good year in revenues, then we bank that, and that's kind of the

3:22:57gravy as opposed to all of this scenario, right? So I think that that's also important to remember, is that we're not focusing much on revenues right now. That could totally change the… if we finish this year better.

3:23:08all of these charts completely change as well, so… so I think that that's just something to keep in mind, and I think that, you know, some of the things that the various council members have talked about, yes, no type of thing, I think

3:23:22what we can also do is we can go back and sharpen our pencils and see where we can make a little bit of some trade-offs. Maybe not this, but maybe that, if it's about the same amount of money, we can… we can look between those scenarios, absolutely, because I'm hearing a lot of different things, and obviously we want to hear from the public as well, but I think that

3:23:42So far, this conversation has given me a lot of, certainly, insight into what I think that we can work with.

3:23:48moving forward that we can bring back to you, but I'll leave it there for now. I just wanted to kind of make the point that this really doesn't consider revenues changing much, but if they did, this would be a whole different story.

3:24:00I also just want to provide some quick context about grants, since I provided context about earmarks, so I feel like it's only fair. For the past couple years, actually, we have received $700,000 in grants.

3:24:13And right now, we have, a little under half a million pending in grants. We did apply for, CDBG grants.

3:24:23Through the county for ADA upgrades to the bathrooms at the swim center. We have been notified as of last week that staff is recommending

3:24:32$200,000 for us, subject to the Board of Supervisor approval, and so we're really happy about that. We also have applied for grants, for the Office of Traffic Safety at the state level for, the Selected Traffic Enforcement Program, which works to, provide

3:24:51to…

3:24:52pay for best strategies to, improve fatal collisions. Also, cybersecurity. We have a $250,000 grant application in, with Cal OES and FEMA, as well as one, a small one for $18,000 to MCE, for electronic chargers at the community center. And so.

3:25:14Those are just some that are in the hopper, and then CAL FIRE is going to be releasing their, grant opportunity soon. I know we haven't had luck in the past, but, you know, with our lobbyists, we actually talked with, CAL FIRE a month ago about how we can make our application stronger, and just the selection process. So, we feel good, about that forthcoming application and are hoping for the best.

3:25:39Thank you. Good. Let's go to open comment.

3:25:43Right now, now is the time for members of the public who wish to provide public comments on this item. Requests to speak can be submitted to the City Clerk by completing a speaker card, using the raise hand feature on Zoom, or dialing 9 if joining by phone. In-person requests will be taken first.

3:25:59Please remember to identify yourself and your city of residence at the beginning of your comments. Madam City, please proceed.

3:26:05Thank you, Mayor. And as we go… as we move into public comment, I just want to remind and, again, ask our residents here with us tonight to please be respectful for all of the comments, whether you agree or disagree, and not have any audible

3:26:19agreement or disagreement, so that everyone feels comfortable providing their… their… their feedback to the City Council. Okay, so we will start with our first speaker in person, is Carrie Schulman, followed by Megan Steffen.

3:26:34Hello. This is my last comment of the night.

3:26:38Carrie Schulman, El Cerrito resident, parent, and active cyclist. I know that most people are here to discuss flock, so I'll make this quick.

3:26:47I'm asking that you please prioritize safe streets in the capital improvement program.

3:26:53Choosing not to invest in safe streets put people's lives at risk.

3:26:57Just last November, a pedestrian in El Cerrito was trying to cross San Pablo. It was the middle of the day, she was in a crosswalk, and she was struck and killed by someone driving their car.

3:27:09It's awesome. Thank you for all the work you're doing with, grant writing and lobbying to, work with Caltrans to try and make that safer, and in general, please prioritize safety and prioritize safe streets in the capital improvement program. Thank you very much.

3:27:27Our next speaker is Megan Steffen, followed by Nina.

3:27:33Hi, I'm Megan Steffen. I'm a resident of El Cerrito, a mother of two.

3:27:39And a proud Asian American. I came here to comment on Flock, and then I took a look at these budget scenarios.

3:27:51And I thought, How on earth…

3:27:54Are we saying that we would rather spend $105K a year?

3:27:59on these cameras, which, frankly, everyone only knows about because of these data breaches and terrible things that are happening. I don't understand how we're talking about cutting a grant writer that costs $78,000 a year

3:28:15Which is essentially, maybe it hasn't paid out, maybe we need a different grant writer. But, I mean, like, which is essentially able to get us money.

3:28:23And we would rather…

3:28:25Spend more than that on something which is causing divisions, which is not making me feel safe.

3:28:31And… which I think we simply haven't seen returns on, and which hasn't been around long enough for us to say, like, oh, this is a default thing, a city must have this. If we are keeping flock over Christmas lights.

3:28:45I think we really need to think hard about our values. Thank you, Councilmember Saltzman, for asking these hard questions, and thank you, Councilmember Kitsanas, for asking very uncomfortable questions. I really appreciate your, sort of, fiscal directness. Thank you all.

3:29:03Our next speaker is Nina, followed by Cynthia McPherson.

3:29:10Nina, are you still here?

3:29:12Okay, we'll go to Cynthia McPherson.

3:29:15Followed by Jiggy Geronimo.

3:29:21Hi, my name is Cynthia McPherson, and I live in El Cerrito.

3:29:25I've heard the budget team just…

3:29:29Now, say that $300,000 is significant.

3:29:33And that our city is in fiscal distress. And I heard our mayor just emphasize how important fire and earthquake safety are.

3:29:42So, I'm advocating to end the $310,000 contract with Flock in order to fund essential infrastructure and services.

3:29:51We have an ample and effective police department. Crime rates have been decreasing nationally and here in El Cerrito. The cameras have been in place for 3 years, and we have no data to indicate that having license plate readers has reduced crime in El Cerrito.

3:30:06Further, the flock company set deceptive default settings in their software, which you all know caused several documented breaches of our data. They do not deserve our business.

3:30:18Our next speaker is J.K. Geronimo, followed by Rosa Esquivel.

3:30:23Hi, I'm Gigi Geronimo, I'm a resident of El Cerrito. I live here with my husband and two kids. You all are talking about cutting things like rec programs, landscaping in the Hillside Recreation Area on the Ohlone Greenway, which keeps our city beautiful.

3:30:36Money for our beloved 4th of July parade, our event, high school internship programs, the holiday lights, and library hours.

3:30:45These are things that really impact the culture of El Cerrito, and also the quality of what it is to raise a family here. I have two little kids, and they want to see the holiday lights. They want to go to the library. What they don't want is to have cameras watching them as they come to and from, walking, biking, driving around our city. We could easily just cut the flock contract and keep the library out. That's a one-to-one cut, and I think most people here, particularly all of the parents here who have

3:31:10who have moved here and have kids here would much rather have more library hours over cameras in our community. Thank you.

3:31:16Thank you, and before we go to our next speaker, please, I again ask the audience to refrain from any audible

3:31:22agreement or disagreement with the speaker, so everyone can feel comfortable making their comments. We'll go to Rosa Esquivel, followed by Michael McDougal.

3:31:29Rosa Esquivel El Cido resident.

3:31:32I think somebody said, if you don't water… if you don't landscape… if you let go of the landscaping, it dies, and then it costs more. And I felt the same way, and I felt that way about the youth. So please take care of the El Cecido stars. It means a lot. I don't think we have…

3:31:49think about the young people in El Cerrito, let's give them a future. They are our future.

3:31:54they need to grow. When I… don't cut any program for the youth,

3:31:59Thank you. I do care about the young people, and… oh, and

3:32:05It means a lot when you're a young person, and it's a job for a person starting out first. So the El Cedo Stars means a lot to a young person to come in and get a job and become a good, productive member of a society. So let's grow the youth people. Thank you. And we do have… thank you.

3:32:23Our next speaker is Michael McDougal, followed by Tuan.

3:32:29Hello, I'm Michael McDougal, I'm an El Cerrito resident. I'm also one of the people who looks at budgets, even when they're not on the City Council agenda, so…

3:32:38One of the things that I wanted to suggest tonight is that, you do a couple of resolutions and up-and-down votes so that city staff can get, sort of, some more concrete direction of how you feel as representatives of the city. So I'd really welcome something like a resolution

3:32:56At, like, let's keep our tenure reserve.

3:32:59above 27%, yes or no. Or, you know, you could start at either end of the… of the table. A lot of people have things where they want to pick and choose, but I think it'd be really great if we had some sort of real concrete things. Because of the Brown Act, you can't… you can't sort of discuss this in a way that is more human.

3:33:19So, you know, I'm just gonna have to discuss this.

3:33:22by making resolutions, and I encourage you to get sort of concrete, and just pick away at the simplest things that you can to give, city staff, and also, you know, the rest of us who are trying to think about the budget, a little bit more direction on how you are thinking about representing the community. Thank you.

3:33:41Our next speaker is Twan, followed by Peter Pan.

3:33:44You're looking at a serious budget deficit.

3:33:47And I want you to prioritize what is most important, which is public safety. You all ran on the issue of public safety, because the community cares about it, because they understand the importance of public safety. That's why we have a saying. It's saying.

3:34:02Public safety first. And there's a reason why people say public safety first, because without public safety.

3:34:11You have criminals running loose, attacking our communities, our families, our businesses. When Oakland defunded and

3:34:20Took public safety away, Our sales tax revenue went down, by…

3:34:2825 to 30% across the city.

3:34:31Where's the city revenue that you need from sales revenue tax when the business is closed? Up and down San Pablo Avenue, liquor stores, gas stations, small mom-and-pop stores have been hit. And people are saying, well, fuck.

3:34:47Fuck is… it hasn't deported anybody, but we do have evidence from the police that we have serious, violent criminals that are being taken off the streets, people who repeatedly rob our stores, people who have

3:35:00committed armed home invasions in our communities. That costs money. When people go to the hospital, go to the ER, take the ambulance, take days off, crime costs money.

3:35:12When your wallet is stolen, you have to take days off to get your credit card information, your license plate. Our next speaker is Peter Pan, and then we'll go to our remote request, please.

3:35:26Thank you. This is Peter. I have lived in Australia for over 30 years.

3:35:32And when I think about what's the worst thing that can happen for a city's budget.

3:35:38I think about San Francisco downtown.

3:35:42It used to generate tons of revenue for the city, but then…

3:35:47It became a ghost town. What happened?

3:35:49Rimes.

3:35:51And…

3:35:53We, like, if we don't install, we don't take crime seriously and install technology to prevent crime, including install these, safety cameras.

3:36:05The city may not be safe. And if people don't feel safe, they don't come out in…

3:36:12Consume. And the business may leave.

3:36:16So, this $16,160,000 a year is a small price to pay for public safety. That's what I want to say.

3:36:28Okay, we'll go to our remote request to speak. Ira, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

3:36:35Ira Sharenow: Irish Aranel, El Cerrito.

3:36:38From management's own document, a $1.7 million structural deficit in fiscal year 26-27,

3:36:46Rising to $2.2 million the following year.

3:36:50Excuse me. I give management an F for budgeting and an A for framing, recasting their failures as a service cut problem.

3:37:01We have too many managers paid too much.

3:37:04Cut wasteful spending, fewer consultants, competitive bidding, no more lunches on the city credit card.

3:37:13There was no scenario analysis. If Measure C passes, how much shifts to the new tax?

3:37:19If the Jarvis Amendment passes, how much goes to lawyers?

3:37:24What if the city loses the real property transfer tax, over $3 million per year?

3:37:30The tax won't cover both bond debt and operating costs.

3:37:34Who covers the gap?

3:37:36Stop treating taxpayers as an unlimited ATM.

3:37:41Finally, what is the wage increase assumption CalPERS is making versus the actual compensation increases El Cerrito gives to senior management? Thank you very much.

3:37:56Okay, our next speaker is identified by a phone number ending in 568. You can hit star 6 to unmute and begin your time now.

3:38:10Hi, if you can hear me, my name is Eric Tregos. I'm a resident here in El Cerrito. I've lived here since a child. I would like to express my feelings of deep concern regarding the flock cameras that have sprouted up in our city.

3:38:21Whatever benefit from a safety standpoint Flock tries to sell us on is nowhere near the cost to our civil liberties, privacy, and trust in society.

3:38:29There is zero evidence that installing flock security cameras reduces crime. Even if it did, when you outsource safety to a private mass surveillance company with numerous security flaws and vulnerabilities to abuse, you erode the foundations of our free society.

3:38:43My father is a refugee who fled to California from an authoritarian regime abroad. I'm appalled to see the mass surveillance technology being placed on our streets.

3:38:53Even if authorities promise to use it responsibly today, there's nothing to stop an irresponsible government or agency abusing in the future. Currently, this is happening in Iran, Russia, and China. Let's not add ourselves to this list. Warrant list tracking has been ruled a Fourth Amendment violation by the Supreme Court. This technology is fundamentally the same.

3:39:11I strongly urge the Council to cancel our flock contract. I promise I to support any Councilmember who votes to cancel it, and I will vote against any Councilmember who continues, who votes to continue it. Thank you.

3:39:23Thank you. Our next speaker is Lisa Johnson. Lisa, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

3:39:30Leisa Johnson: Good evening, Councilmembers. I just want to echo that

3:39:34Consistently across the board when cities do their surveys.

3:39:39The number one thing is public safety.

3:39:44Leisa Johnson: And that's defined in a numerous, numerous ways, right? Whether it's your police, your fire.

3:39:50Feeling safe crossing the street.

3:39:53Feeling safe going from your car to a grocery store.

3:39:57Because of a neighborhood you might live in.

3:40:01You won't let your kid go out at night, or even sometimes during the day alone.

3:40:07Those problems have plagued numerous cities, and they will come to El Cerrito if you cut public safety.

3:40:15If you have a blanket black circle bat light shining over you, saying, you're the only one without flock cameras, or any kind of camera, that's where they will go.

3:40:26And once that happens, your businesses are gonna start getting more crime.

3:40:31People are gonna leave, and your tax revenue decreases accordingly.

3:40:36And when you start cutting police staff, they need those types of tools to help them.

3:40:42So you have to think more broadly about not just short-term, but long-term consequences of every decision you're going to make when it comes to addressing your budget.

3:40:52Thank you.

3:40:56Our next speaker is Jacqueline LaSonne. Jacqueline, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

3:41:03Jacqueline Lasahn/AstroSpirit: Hello, thank you for listening. I'm a resident, for 17 years here in El Cerrito.

3:41:10And I oppose the renewal of El Cerrito's flock contract.

3:41:14These, camera systems have not been meaningfully demonstrated to prevent crime or improve public safety. To the contrary, studies indicate that these type of cameras do not have any deterrent effect on crime.

3:41:30Excuse me.

3:41:31We are dealing with budget. Flock is coming up next in the agenda, so, can you wait and, speak on this?

3:41:40Jacqueline Lasahn/AstroSpirit: Thank you.

3:41:41And we get to it. Thank you very much.

3:41:45Mayor, that concludes our request to speak on this item. Thank you very much. Let's get back to the Council.

3:41:50We'll start over here to my left.

3:41:55Okay.

3:41:58Who would like to give,

3:42:01instruction on what? I believe we decided we are going to do a hybrid of B and C, is that correct?

3:42:11We didn't.

3:42:13Sorry, my microphone is off. If possible, it would be helpful to get direction from the Council if you would like us to come back in two weeks on May 19th with the proposed scenario, or a couple of options, or if you want us to… okay.

3:42:25Yeah. Alright. Would you prefer, and maybe this is a discussion item, and tell me if this is a tough question, would you prefer to see a couple of different options of, like, different gradations between these, and what those each would include, or would it be

3:42:42maybe, like, 3 options for consideration, something like that. They will be quite similar, so…

3:42:47I just will give different… okay. Yeah, yeah, a hybrid of two…

3:42:522 and 3, okay. Or BLC.

3:42:56Thank you very much. Okay. Do we need a, a vote on this?

3:43:01I don't think so. I saw everyone nodding their heads, so if that's the direction, then we will come back in two weeks, and we will present some more detailed options.

3:43:12Thank you very much. Thank you.

3:43:14Now, I know all of you have been waiting for this. We have the flock safety agreement.

3:43:20We're going to adopt a resolution authorizing the City Manager to enter into agreement with Block Safety for the provision of license plate reading cameras.

3:43:29For this item, we'll be hearing from multiple parties.

3:43:33tonight, so I ask the Council to hold on to their questions until we have heard from everyone. The order of information will be as follows.

3:43:44First, we will receive the staff's presentation, and that is, Chief Keith.

3:43:50Second, and per Council's direction on the April 21st meeting, the ACLU was invited to attend the meeting tonight. However, no one from the organization was available.

3:44:01Instead, we will hear from a representative of the Electronic Frontier Foundation who was recommended by the ACLU in their absence, and that is Sarah Hamid.

3:44:11Third, we will hear from a presentation of Flock, from Flock, and that is Max Weinstein.

3:44:19Let's get started with the staff presentation with our police chief. Chief Keith, welcome.

3:44:25Good evening, Mayor and Council. I'm Paul Keith, your Chief of Police.

3:44:29I'm here tonight to talk about the renewal of the FLOC LPR system. I have a couple other people that are also joining me. I have 3 representatives from FLOC that are present in the meeting.

3:44:40Katie Dauphine and Lily Ho are available on Zoom, and Max Weinstein is here in person.

3:44:47So, after my presentation, obviously, you'll be hearing from both the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Max Weinstein.

3:44:53Let's begin.

3:44:55So, at El Cerrito PD, we first started talking about the possibility of license plate reading cameras around 15 years ago.

3:45:01Systems at the time were provided by manufacturers like Vigilant, and they were beginning to use in both fixed locations and on patrol vehicles. At the time, these systems were cost prohibitive.

3:45:11Wealthy cities had fixed license plate reader cameras at their entrances, and less wealthy communities, you know, they might have a couple vehicles equipped with systems.

3:45:19A lot of those wealthy cities were also low-crime cities, so that was, you know, you kind of wonder, what's the point of having the system if you don't have any crime to justify it?

3:45:28About 11 years ago, we held a public meeting and first talked publicly about license plate reading cameras as a possibility. It's clear from our first meeting that we needed to do more research on the systems.

3:45:38We talked with members of the ACLU, and they encouraged me to read Making Smart Decisions About Surveillance, an ACLU brochure on surveillance systems.

3:45:47And I did that.

3:45:49Found it to be very helpful for helping us develop a public outreach strategy around license plate readers.

3:45:54Our early public meetings identified concerns with the systems.

3:45:58People were concerned with the length that LPR records were kept. The time they were kept for one year, even longer. Sometimes they were an indefinite storage of license plate reader records.

3:46:08People were concerned about having their faces photographed. A lot of license plate reader systems of the days took pictures of the front of the vehicles so that people's faces were visible through the windshields.

3:46:17People concerned about their privacy.

3:46:20And people were also concerned about transparency in the process and records.

3:46:24Really was an unknown what agencies that,

3:46:29Communities that had license plate readers shared with.

3:46:31There wasn't a lot of public information out there. The process of obtaining the systems wasn't very transparent.

3:46:38So, as we looked at different possibilities for systems out there, we came across block safety.

3:46:43One of the things that we noticed about the system is it was responsive to those three big concerns.

3:46:49The company had a policy of retaining data for only 30 days.

3:46:52After which it would delete the data and be unavailable.

3:46:55They had camera systems that were intended to focus… they had camera systems that were intended

3:47:01Photographed the rear of vehicles, which meant that people's faces were no longer being photographed intentionally.

3:47:07And the company had developed a transparency portal that was available to agencies, had a wealth of data about the use of their system.

3:47:16Not only that, but Flock as a company had developed a product that was changing the cost structure of license plate readers.

3:47:22Before Flock, systems could cost $15,000 to $30,000 per camera.

3:47:27These cameras would be city-owned, with annual costs as well.

3:47:31And they were isolated systems, which meant that each city, for the most part, had access to their own data. There was no interconnectivity.

3:47:40The law came up with a different program. At the time when we entered into our first contract, it was $2,500 per camera annually.

3:47:49Cameras were flock-owned and maintained.

3:47:51And they had interconnectivity between agencies that had flock cameras.

3:47:56And why is interconnectivity important?

3:47:59Well, currently, about 12% of the people that we arrest come from the community of El Cerrito, but 88% are not.

3:48:05In order to locate and identify suspects in our cases, we need tools that can take us outside of our city limits to help us identify where people are coming from and where they are.

3:48:16And why do we share with other agencies?

3:48:18We've worked with many neighboring agencies on burglaries and violent crime in particular.

3:48:23During which license plate readers have helped connect groups of suspects of crimes in multiple jurisdictions.

3:48:29It helps all of us when we can work together to take violent offenders off our streets.

3:48:34We saw that Flock was a good fit for our needs.

3:48:38In fiscal year 21 and 22, police department faced significant staff cuts, accomplished through attrition.

3:48:45Department morale was low.

3:48:47All of our staff are working on ways to increase our effectiveness, especially faced with the near-future staff disruptions.

3:48:53And also looking for ways to add more meaning to the work that our officers did.

3:48:58Our frontline staff approached me and asked me to consider working on the LPR program. We'd seen what options were out there, and they said, Chief, we really want to make this a reality.

3:49:07I knew it would be a lot of work.

3:49:09But I also understood the payoff of having a system would be really incredible.

3:49:14It would give our officers useful follow-up tools.

3:49:17We increased officer safety through early warning systems about dangerous cars.

3:49:22It would help our officers with our mission.

3:49:24To protect our community, solve crimes, and pursue justice.

3:49:28And it would give more meaning to their work, where they could see the outcome of the investigations that they did.

3:49:35We held more public meetings, not just to deliver information, but also to help direct our policy creation.

3:49:41We developed an employment strategy to support our business district and our vulnerable neighborhoods.

3:49:46We were guided by this idea.

3:49:48The Dos Cerrito deserves nice things.

3:49:51Our community members deserve a safe community, nice parks, vibrant commercial districts, prime-free shopping experiences.

3:49:58Supportive learning environments. We saw LPR cameras as a way to support this reality.

3:50:05My opinion, LPR cameras have delivered on their promise in El Cerrito. Crime is down to historically low levels.

3:50:11Case clearance rates have skyrocketed. Our officers have the tools they need to do their jobs.

3:50:17In March of 2023, Council authorized a 3-year agreement with FLOC,

3:50:22And this agreement is scheduled to end on June 6, 2026, if not renewed.

3:50:27If we do not want to renew, we must inform Flock 30 days before.

3:50:31And the current agreement has some advantages.

3:50:35Chief among them, it has a termination for convenience clause, with a proration of cost.

3:50:40And a $500 per camera removal fee.

3:50:43Current agreement will auto-renew for a 3-year period.

3:50:47And renewal of the agreement will be at the rate of $105,000 annually.

3:50:52Block has also proposed a new agreement.

3:50:56This agreement can be as short as a 1-year agreement, or up to 3 years.

3:51:01It includes a penalty paid by Flock for unauthorized access, as defined in the document.

3:51:07Penalty is $34,500.

3:51:11It also includes a termination clause, but not with the same benefit of a proration of cost for termination as a termination for convenience asked.

3:51:19Entering into a new agreement would also be at the same rate of $105,000 annually.

3:51:26So, Council has some options before tonight, and these are just the options that I've come up with, being a non-creative police chief, I know Council can probably think of other things as well.

3:51:35But Council may choose to affirmatively renew the existing contract.

3:51:39Council may choose to direct staff not to renew the existing contract.

3:51:43Council may choose to enter into a new agreement.

3:51:46Council may choose to take no action tonight, or Council may choose an alternative that I'm sure that your creativity could probably come up with.

3:51:55So now that we know our options, let's talk about the present-day reality of our flock safety system.

3:52:01This map is an area map, and the circles represent different flock safety systems in our area. Now, these systems are just flock systems. They don't cover every different type of surveillance system that a city may have adopted. As an example, Pittsburgh has some alternate video surveillance systems that they use.

3:52:17San Pablo is represented by that green dot that's actually on Richmond in the map, but that's actually San Pablo. They have

3:52:23I think about 20 Flock license plate readers, but overall, they have something like 200 cameras, different license plate reader vendors in town.

3:52:32One thing you might note about the map is that there is not a circle to represent Richmond.

3:52:37From my understanding, Richmond's cameras are currently offline, so they do represent kind of a hole in coverage at the moment.

3:52:44A yellow circle represents the El Cerrito flock deployment, 40 cameras total.

3:52:49The green circles represent agencies that share data with us.

3:52:54The blue circles represent agencies where we have a pending sharing request, where we've asked them, hey, can you give us access to your system?

3:53:01And the purple circles represent systems that don't share with us.

3:53:04Now, the purple circles can sometimes be a little misleading,

3:53:09There are some cities where they share their license plate reading data with us, but they don't share other products that they might have, like live stream video cameras that they have through Flog.

3:53:22So, one city may have a green circle for license plate readers, but a purple circle for situational awareness cameras that the city deploys, but aren't shared with the rest of the network.

3:53:35Now, the West County Chiefs, we meet pretty frequently, and as each of us adopted these systems, we agreed that we wanted West Contra Costa County to be a place that criminals avoided when they planned their crimes.

3:53:46We want them to know that we all take crime investigation and prevention seriously.

3:53:51And we know that our system is strongest when our neighbors are all on the same crime prevention page.

3:53:56What I don't want El Serio to be is a hole in that map.

3:54:00I don't want our region to be a hole in that map. I don't want us to be an attractive place for people to plan, to…

3:54:06target our… Cannabis dispensaries, or our car dealerships, or our hardware stores.

3:54:17So let's talk about the deployment of cameras in El Cerrito itself.

3:54:21So, as you can see, our cameras are predominantly deployed in a perimeter deployment.

3:54:26They basically cover vehicles coming in and out of the city. We have a couple of cameras inside of the city to provide a little bit extra coverage around our high school.

3:54:35But for the most part, the cameras are around the outskirts.

3:54:40I can tell you from practical experience that once cars come through the perimeter, we might get an alert, but just because we got the alert, they are sometimes hard to locate.

3:54:51By design, the system is not about locating and tracking individual cars at all times. It's about providing investigative leads and officer safety alerts. So while we might get a notice that a vehicle entered the city on Arlington, as an example.

3:55:05There are a lot of streets that the car can take once it enters the city, where we would have no idea because it's not passing the license plate reader camera. It'd be up to us to try to find them.

3:55:15It's not uncommon for officers to get a hit on a stolen car coming into town at night, and they start searching for the stolen vehicle, and often, a lot of times, they'll find it parked somewhere because the person's now gone on to steal another car and left that car behind.

3:55:27So it's not 100%, but it does help give our officers a place to look.

3:55:32Sometimes our officers find the car.

3:55:34So this map, it's, it's not a secret. We post the location of all our cameras online.

3:55:40The cameras that are posted up, they're not hidden, they're all publicly visible installations.

3:55:45One of the reasons we deployed these cameras in the way that we did, because we kind of looked back over time at the different crimes we would have liked to solve.

3:55:54And this camera deployment, I believe, would have helped us solve nearly every murder we've had in the last 25 years if they were in place.

3:56:02Murders like the murder that occurred in Superstop on San Pablo and Knott.

3:56:06The nation's parking lot.

3:56:08on Seaview and Mosier, on Mira Vista Drive, and at our Red Onion.

3:56:16I want to take a moment to talk about some of the difference between our LPR cameras and cell phones.

3:56:21So our LPR cameras take photographs of the rear of vehicles.

3:56:25They used some machine learning to identify license plates, and also to identify vehicle characteristics.

3:56:31They can tell us the last time a vehicle passed by a particular location.

3:56:36But they can't tell us where the car is now.

3:56:38They can't tell us who was driving the car, and they can't tell us what was in the car.

3:56:43In the case of our responses, either alerts or searches for suspects, the camera can give us a general area that the vehicle might be in.

3:56:50But as we saw in the last map, all OPR systems have large, uncovered areas.

3:56:55Investigators have a place to start looking.

3:56:58Now, a cell phone, on the other hand, cell phone tracks location at all times.

3:57:02It can tell us the location of a specific person in real time.

3:57:06It can even give us some information about the speed and direction a person might be moving.

3:57:10Contains a wealth of data about the owner.

3:57:13Their associates, their photographs, and their personal lives.

3:57:18And when we've identified a suspect in a violent crime, and we seek to apprehend them, we sometimes use warrants for cell phone locations to help locate the suspects.

3:57:28You get warrants to do that.

3:57:30This is much more effective than searching for vehicles based on license plate reading cameras.

3:57:37I want to talk for a moment about some other regional surveillance.

3:57:41So there are some very extensive surveillance systems in and around our community. Some of them can kind of be invisible to us, because if you're not necessarily on the lookout for them, you don't always see them. I was sitting at a restaurant last week, and I looked around, and I was like, oh my gosh, there's, like, 20 cameras right here. It's a lot of cameras. None of them are the city's cameras. They all belong to other people.

3:57:59So let's talk about some of the surveillance systems in place. At the top is BART. BART has one of the most advanced, in El Cerrito, with a combination of cameras in and on BART properties, and extensive surveillance of passengers. BART does this to both protect themselves from liability and also from crime, so their passengers can have safe trips.

3:58:19Every AC Transit bus is covered in cameras inside and out, recording passengers at all times. This is what protects AC Transit, number one, from liability. They're very focused on collisions, on collisions that they might be at fault for, and also to provide some crime prevention help with passengers on their buses.

3:58:37Our commute corridor in El Cerrito is outfitted with Caltrans cameras, with significant installations at Cutting, Potrero, and Central.

3:58:45These have 24-hour monitoring with streaming to the internet, with some significant system upgrades coming with higher definitions on the horizon. I will admit, I'm not exactly sure why Caltrans has these cameras, I just know that they do have the cameras. They… they live stream. I don't think… I don't know that they record. Caltrans has a purpose behind them, I just don't know what it is.

3:59:05So I'm just saying that honestly, I don't know.

3:59:08Alright, so moving on, though, all toll roads, toll crossings are monitored with camera systems. You know, every time we get in the toll lane, we're gonna have to pay that toll. License plate readers enable that.

3:59:18El Cerrito, comparatively, has a relatively small surveillance footprint.

3:59:22We have some coverage of security buildings on our… security cameras on our city buildings, mostly with pretty incomplete coverage. We've got a little system up at the recycle center. I'm not encouraging anybody to break into any, city facilities, but we've got a couple cameras up at the recycle center. This building is probably the best covered. I know the public safety building, you would think, is better, but it's this one.

3:59:41This one has a much better camera system. Across the street, we have most of the building covered. Don't mess with the firefighters, please. They already got a broken window over the weekend.

3:59:52So, if we were to eliminate license plate reader cameras, we would really have no other significant El Cerrito-owned surveillance systems to use for crime prevention or investigation.

4:00:03Really, the only surveillance system we have available for crime prevention or investigation is the current flock system. The building surveillance systems are essentially useless for trying to prevent crime or investigate crime, unless it happens directly under a camera to a city property.

4:00:19So unless it happens in the public safety parking lot.

4:00:22We don't have a lot to go off of with our current surveillance footprint in El Cerrito.

4:00:27So why are license plate reader cameras important when we have all these other systems around?

4:00:32Well, these other systems, whether they be Caltrans cameras, private residences, business cameras, or transit cameras, they're not necessarily designed for high-speed photography.

4:00:41LPR cameras are designed to take photographs of vehicles moving at high speeds with clear resolution.

4:00:47Most residential and business cameras blur when vehicles pass by, or are too far away, or they're out of position to get important details, like license plates.

4:00:56Our cameras are set up to gather important information relevant to crimes. I've been frustrated on many a case to see that we have a surveillance camera from a nearby business, and the picture is almost unusable because it's evening, and the car was moving. That's just kind of a streaky blur in the picture.

4:01:16So let's talk about what we get from our LPR system.

4:01:19This is an example pulled.

4:01:22Mmm… what? I think on last week.

4:01:26Sample pulled last week from the system. This is the captain's car. It's, he is a suspicious person in the back there.

4:01:33It's the captain's vehicle.

4:01:35And it's a good example of, an output we would get from the system.

4:01:39So, in this case, the system read the license plate, it read the license plate correctly.

4:01:45It identified the car through its machine learning system as a black Ford SUV,

4:01:50They told us the location, time, and date the captain passed by. My guess is he was going to Well Grounded for a cup of coffee.

4:01:57It's always where he's going.

4:02:00It gave us the coordinates of the camera and who owns it. In this case, it's one of our cameras. And this is typical of our results.

4:02:06When we get our license plate hits back, we can rarely make out the occupants in either the target car or approaching vehicles. They're just set up to focus on the vehicle itself.

4:02:17I know Council's seen this slide before, so I'm not gonna spend a ton of time on it.

4:02:21But this is just an idea of what our crime looks like over the past 4 years.

4:02:25These are crimes that haven't seen a significant move in one way or the other.

4:02:31They show kind of a static trend line.

4:02:35Shoplifting and assault continue to be challenges for our community.

4:02:41And this chart shows 3 other categories of crime where we've seen some significant change.

4:02:48Burglaries are down from the peak of the… Sorry, robberies are down… no, hold on, there's robbery. Robbery is down from the peak, by 33%.

4:02:58Burglary is down by 42% from the peak, and vehicle theft is down, I'm gonna say, a whopping 61%. That is a tremendous shift, a major adjustment.

4:03:09And there's a lot of people that are saying, well, you know, crime's down in California, and crime's down nationally, and it is.

4:03:15Back in January, I read an article in the New York Times, and it said, crime's at historic lows.

4:03:21we asked why. So I said, oh my gosh, I can't wait to see what the New York Times journalists came up with. And so I read the article, and nobody knows. Nobody could say why. They don't know.

4:03:31It's just, it just went down, we don't know why.

4:03:34But I have to think that, LPR systems played a role.

4:03:38There's about 480 cities, communities in California, and…

4:03:44Approximately 70% or more of them have license plate reader systems.

4:03:48That has to play a role in California. I don't know what the national adoption rate is, but I imagine it's probably similar to California. The nation does tend to move with California trends.

4:03:59I believe that's played a role.

4:04:01What we're looking at here for burglary and vehicle theft are historic prime lows. This is the lowest it's been in 40 years. Robbery, this is the second lowest it's been… the lowest was actually in 2014 for robbery.

4:04:15Also, I want to talk about case clearance rates. So, a case is cleared when we investigate a crime and we arrest a person responsible for the crime. It doesn't necessarily mean that they got prosecuted, although we like that. But it means that we identified a person with probable cause and we made an arrest.

4:04:32So, we also have some historic lows in case clear… sorry, historic highs in case clearances. So, clearing a case in the police world is a really good thing.

4:04:41Robbery, our clearance rates increased 95% since 2022, 2022 being the last year when we did… of last full year, we did not have a flock system.

4:04:51And just talking about the 2022 numbers, something that… to note, and this is not something I'm proud of, but, 2022, our numbers, our clearance cases, our clearance numbers, they're below average. They're below average for not just the county, but also below average for the state.

4:05:07We were, doing the best we had. We had lower staffing, we had lowish staffing now. Our staffing was in the 20s. But something to note, in 2025,

4:05:16We had staffing in the 20s and 2025 as well. So, we had staffing challenges in 2022, we had staffing challenges in 23 and 24 and 25. We had staffing challenges throughout this whole period.

4:05:29The one thing that changed for us was license plate reading cameras. That's the one element. We've had staffing challenges all the way through. Right now, we don't. I'm happy to say, we're only down one officer right now, so we're doing much better now, in 2026. But the last four years have been a staffing challenge.

4:05:44So even with that challenge, we've had significant, major increases in our clearance rates. 95% for robberies, 38% for assaults. The big one's larceny, 191…

4:05:54percent…

4:05:56When it comes to assault, this is our highest clearance rate since 2018. Burglary, this is, 2024 was actually higher, 16% 2024. Before that, 2018 was our highest year. Larceny, our highest… this is our highest year since 2012.

4:06:09And robbery, this is, like, a historic high. The last… the year that beat this was 1987. We haven't cleared this many robberies since 1987. They cleared 55% of cases. I want to know what they were doing back then, but I was only 10 years old.

4:06:25So, that's a historically high clearance rate for us.

4:06:28And frankly, our officers are just getting started. The stats for this year, our officers are out there, they're solving cases, and they're doing really tremendous work.

4:06:37I included some of these cases in the agenda report, so I'm going to kind of move through those, because I know that we have other presentations coming up. So I'm just going to touch on some key traffic-related cases that I think are relevant for our consideration tonight.

4:06:52May 2024, we had a felony hit and run. In this case, a driver drove over a pedestrian at the intersection of Cuddying and San Pablo.

4:07:00We used the license plate reading system to help identify the suspect's vehicle. We ended up locating, arresting her, and she was charged with felony hit and run in that case.

4:07:09In July of 2024, just 2 months later, we had a vehicular manslaughter case that was a hit-and-run. The system helped our investigators identify the suspect vehicle. Within 24 hours, we had the person in custody after there was a fatal hit-and-run on San Pablo Avenue near the intersection with Central.

4:07:26In that case, we, presented the case to the district attorney's office. They, charged him with vehicular manslaughter, and we believe it was a case of a drunken driver hit and run. The person admitted to drinking alcohol that night, although when we had the person in custody later, the alcohol had already dissipated, so it was hard to prove.

4:07:46But he was convicted of vehicular manslaughter.

4:07:48In September 2025, we had a hit-and-run on city property. This is where the Public Works Department pays attention.

4:07:54So at Central and Carlson, a big red car carrier took out one of our pedestrian crosswalk posts. They seem like they're not much to them, they're just a little post with a button on it.

4:08:05But at the time, we didn't have any information on who the suspect was. We just had a description of it being a car carrier. We used our license plate reader system. We found the license plate of the car carrier. It's a company based out of Southern California.

4:08:17Because we identified the company, we were able to go to the company for damages to our service, to our system. At the time, the initial estimates were $10,000 to $15,000 to replace and repair the system.

4:08:27So it gave us a company that we could,

4:08:30Go after for damage to city property.

4:08:33January 2026, we had an intoxicated person crossing mid-block over by Safeway. He was hit by a hit-and-run driver. Now, early witness descriptions of the suspect vehicle led us to identify a vehicle of interest.

4:08:47We used the system to track the vehicle down. We ended up finding the vehicle very shortly after the crime. And because of the time that took place, we're able to see that the suspect vehicle that had been identified by a witness who didn't see the collision, they just saw the aftermath of the collision, so they thought this was a vehicle responsible. Wasn't actually the vehicle responsible.

4:09:08Talked to the owner, we got a statement from him, we got a statement from other people around him, and we determined this was not the suspect in our case.

4:09:14The owner was not arrested, but it was a… gave us the ability to rapidly follow up on a witness statement, and early on, determine whether or not we had the responsible party.

4:09:25And in February 2026, we had a hit-and-run. This is a case where, it was property damage only. The owner of the victim vehicle only had liability coverage. This was her only mode of transportation, and it was totaled by a hit-and-run driver.

4:09:39We used the system to identify the person responsible. He, we actually got in touch with his dad. He had told his dad that he was the victim of a hit-and-run. Somebody hit him in El Sobrani. It wasn't… wasn't the other way around, no. So, by doing that, we were able to get

4:09:53Money for the victim, she had an insurance company that she could connect with, and then we also had the responsible party for the misdemeanor hit-and-run case.

4:10:03So I also want to talk about some select criminal cases as well. In 2023, the system helped us solve an armed robbery case. In this case, the suspect approached the victim after following him home, fired a bullet in the air, it was on Richmond Street, near our BART station.

4:10:20He stole the victim's Rolex watch and fled in a Dodge Charger. Now, this wasn't a whodunit for us. The suspect dropped his wallet in the commission of the crime.

4:10:28So, we knew who it was. But the other cities where he had done robberies, they did not know who he was.

4:10:35So, because we got the license plate, and because we put it in the system, it helped other agencies, where they'd had a white charger do an armed robbery in their town, connect all their other cases together, and figure out who was responsible for those crimes.

4:10:49So, combined, we all got warrants for this person's arrest. They're currently arrested in Florida, on robbery charges in Florida, and we're awaiting extradition back to California for him to face charges here.

4:10:58But the license plate reader system in that case helped not just us, but also our neighboring agencies.

4:11:04It helped us solve, and I've talked about this at the last meeting, a 2023 murder that happened in Capitola.

4:11:10In May of 2024, helped us solve a burglary where we had, three suspects that operated in two different teams. They burglarized a tobacco store.

4:11:19In that case, two of the suspects were apprehended that night.

4:11:22A third suspect was identified through the use of our license plate reader system. We were able to determine that it was, working in concert with them, and basically doing surveillance on the police response to help get them out from the burglary they were committing, where they had rammed a cigarette store.

4:11:36February, 2025, I talked about this last time, too. We had an armed home invasion robbery. The system enabled us to not only identify a suspect vehicle, but rapidly track them down the following day in Dixon, California.

4:11:48December of 2025, we had another robbery. In this case, we used the footage to match possible suspects with the robbery. We worked with Berkeley Police to help connect suspect vehicles and license plate feeds to identify our suspects. In that case, they

4:12:03In front of somebody on the bark path, threw her to the ground, caused her head injury, she ended up, going to the hospital.

4:12:10But we were able to identify the suspects in that, and they're currently wanted for the crime.

4:12:15This year, in January and February, last year, I was really tooting our horns about the drop in burglaries. Well, we started off the year really strong in burglaries. We had quite a few of them.

4:12:24And we had two different, crews that were using vehicles to commit residential burglaries. One group, we identified their vehicle when they,

4:12:34would drive around in San Jose, where they're from, license plate would be on the back of their car all day long. When they came to El Cerrito, they moved the license plate into the back of the car, into the rear window, because they thought that that would defeat the license plate reader system.

4:12:46But, the system identified it anyway. It spotted the license plate in the back window, so we were able to get their license plate that way. We also managed to link them together with a series of other crimes in neighboring agencies where they were doing burglaries.

4:12:58We have the suspects, tentatively ID'd in the second group of series of, burglaries as well. We have their car identified, and we're working on apprehending them.

4:13:07In March 2026, we also had an auto burglary series that,

4:13:11kind of was connected with Richmond Police. They ended up recovering a car. We linked that car to some burglaries in El Cerrito through our license plate reader cameras.

4:13:19When we went to go do a search of the vehicle, the Richmond recovered, we ended up recovering in a $7,000 fire department radio, not from our fire department, but from an East Bay Regional Parks firefighter who happens to live in town.

4:13:31So, knowing, what…

4:13:34goes into that on the dispatch side, that is a huge win for the fire department to get one of those radios back. They're really big liabilities when they're out in the wild.

4:13:46So, as I wrap up, I just want to reiterate the, options before you today.

4:13:52I think we can all read that.

4:13:56So, I'll just leave it on the screen here.

4:14:00So, I've, thought long and hard about, our current situation, and my recommendation is to renew the existing agreement, because it maintains a termination for a convenience clause, but I believe either agreement would serve the city well.

4:14:13I've talked with chiefs that have had to shut down their systems, and they say, well, I guess we'll just solve less crime, and our officers will have less work to do. So they won't be able to follow up on cases like they used to.

4:14:23And I don't want El Cerrito to be like that. I don't want that to be our city's reputation.

4:14:28But it would be our reality if we turn off the system.

4:14:31And I've heard people say that, well, you know, it doesn't matter to me if people are victimized, and that's fine if that's a decision you make for yourself, but a lot of people I talk with care very much whether or not they're the victim of a crime.

4:14:44For people that are victimized by car theft, you know, there's some of us that have great insurance policies, and maybe if our car gets stolen, our insurance company will pay us out, fair value for the car.

4:14:54But there's a lot of low-income folks who don't have comprehensive policies, and the car is their only means of transportation to their work. And when their car is stolen, it's truly a devastating loss for them. It can have major impacts on their ability to work.

4:15:07When it comes to burglaries, one of the things I… a trend that I've noticed in burglaries is people say, well, you know, they're just gonna go and take my stuff, but all my stuff's replaceable.

4:15:15But suspects have this special knack of finding the one thing in your house that doesn't have value to anybody else, but has value to you. And that's the thing that they… they'll take that… they'll take all the other stuff, too, you know, your computer and your TVs. They'll also take that one irreplaceable thing that you thought had no value to anybody except yourself.

4:15:32When it comes to violent crime in El Cerrito, outside of domestic violence, most common victims of violent crime are the workers in our city.

4:15:40The people that work in our gas stations.

4:15:42In our grocery stores, in our markets.

4:15:46Those are people that are often the victim of violent crime.

4:15:49And when people are victimized by truly violent crime, or their relatives are murdered, it's the police department that they demand answers from.

4:15:57And I can't imagine how much harder those conversations would be if we said no to a tool like license plate readers that could have solved their case and bring them some amount of peace.

4:16:06We may never know if having our clock system prevented a murder, but it does give us the possibility that a murder was prevented.

4:16:13When I drive around El Cerrito, sometimes I see the places differently than others, just because I've been here for…

4:16:1925 years working as a police officer.

4:16:22I drive by Nations, I see the parking lot where a homicide victim died by gunshot, and the suspect fled in a vehicle.

4:16:29That we may have been able to identify if we had a license plate reading camera.

4:16:34on Mira Vista Drive, the north end of town.

4:16:37We had a homicide victim there who we believe was followed home from Berkeley.

4:16:40And our victim's route would have taken them by several license plate reader installations. That case could have been solved today if we had

4:16:47Readers at the time.

4:16:50at a gas station called Superstop back in the day at San Pablo and Knot.

4:16:57Anyway… We had a gas station called Superstop back in the day at San Pablo and not…

4:17:03We identified a suspect in that case, but we were never able to get charges filed. But if we'd had information that showed a suspect's vehicle entered El Cerrito via license plate readers, we very well could have solved that case.

4:17:16Lozier in Seaview, was another instance of a carjacking gone wrong that resulted in a homicide. We believe the suspects arrived at the scene in a car and also fled in a car.

4:17:26In Red Onion, a place that I still go to regularly, we know the suspects fled the scene in a vehicle that was parked on a nearby street. The street has a license plate reader camera on it now, and if we'd had it at the time, we could have solved that case.

4:17:38The decision you make tonight won't just impact our community, but it'll impact our neighbors as well.

4:17:44We can be a safer city, and I believe the outstanding results are already in front of you.

4:17:49Thank you very much for your time.

4:17:53Kate, thank you very much.

4:17:56Please… no clapping.

4:17:59We'll bring this back to the Council, and we'll start with questions. Mayor, we still have two more parts of the presentation, so, just give me one second to… I want to ask that the person from EFF go next, because she's in Washington, D.C. She is next, I'm pulling her contacts number.

4:18:19Alright, thanks.

4:18:22Sarah Hamid (EFF): Can y'all see me and hear me?

4:18:25Give me one second… Okay.

4:18:33Sarah Hamid (EFF): Can you hear me now?

4:18:34Yes, okay, you can go ahead, you were… you were up, and we can hear you in the room.

4:18:39Sarah Hamid (EFF): Okay, perfect.

4:18:40Mayor Kinto, members of the Council, thank you for the opportunity to… or for giving me the opportunity to speak to you tonight. My name is Sarah Hamid, I am the Director of Strategic Campaigns at the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

4:18:53And I'm happy to be able to answer some questions you may have about the data sharing and governance risks, and ultimately public safety risks that the proposed flock safety renewal proposes, because that is where I and EFF have particular expertise. EFF is a Bay Area-based nonprofit, even though I'm in the East Coast.

4:19:12We focus on civil liberties, we're a civil liberties organization founded in 1990 that focuses on privacy, free expression, and the impact of technology on people's rights.

4:19:22And over the past two decades, EFF has worked extensively on police surveillance technologies, including automated license plate readers, documenting how these systems work, how police deploy them, and how they threaten privacy and civil liberties.

4:19:36That work includes public records investigations, technical analysis, and documenting almost 15,000 police surveillance technology systems across the country.

4:19:46This work also includes recent investigations into how Flock Safety's network is used in practice, investigations that show that Flock is not just a camera vendor, but a highly networked surveillance system whose risks turn on data sharing, downstream access, and weak governance.

4:20:04So I want to organize my comments around three points today. First, a legal threat assessment. Second, a read on the, quote, lawful process carve-out. And third, why civil liberties concerns are here are principled and well-founded. So first, the legal threat assessment.

4:20:21The core unresolved question is whether any contract with Flock is compatible with a sanctuary city's legal obligations once license plate data is held by a U.S.-based company that can be compelled to disclose it under federal law.

4:20:37In the materials before you, there are answers about software settings, audits, and penalty.

4:20:42But not a clear answer as to whether a local contract term can actually prevent unauthorized federal access. That's because the answer is no.

4:20:50There is no way to make this arrangement meaningfully low-risk for a sanctuary city, given the federal compulsion tools that apply to U.S.-based providers, regardless of how carefully the contract is drafted.

4:21:04Federal compulsion tools such as national security letters, grand jury subpoenas, and other legal demands can override local expectations about confidentiality, and some of those mechanisms come with secrecy requirements or gag orders.

4:21:20That means municipalities can negotiate stronger language with a vendor and still have no meaningful guarantee that it will be notified when data is compelled, shared, or searched under federal authority.

4:21:32The lawful process carve-out really does swallow the rule here.

4:21:36That matters even more in a sanctuary city context. The problem is not just an abstract possibility of federal access, it is that a local government is being asked to keep feeding data into a network system when it cannot reliably control who ultimately gets access to and benefits from that data.

4:21:55and under what legal basis they're able to do so, or with what notice to city or the public. This is not a hypothetical risk. If I'm not mistaken, your own agenda materials state that El Cerrito's system was searched

4:22:07By out-of-state and federal agencies during the installation period, and that two federal agencies later had limited access for periods of time.

4:22:15The packet also notes that even after serious community concern about the pervasive and hard-to-govern data-sharing ecosystem, El Cerrito still shares data with hundreds of other California law enforcement agencies.

4:22:28Even if that sharing is formally limited to in-state agencies governed under SB34, it still feeds a larger network where federal access can happen through fusion centers, proxy searches, statewide databases, or vendor-level exports, rather than through a direct request to El Cerrito.

4:22:46Basically, once data enters a system designed for broad sharing, the legal and governance risk is not confined to one clause or one policy memo.

4:22:56Sarah Hamid (EFF): So second, a read on the lawful processes carbo.

4:23:00The revised MSA states that there's going to be a $35,000 penalty if Flock causes an unauthorized sharing event. On paper, that sounds like a serious safeguard, and the agenda materials emphasize it as a new and major protection.

4:23:16But the same section says that the penalty does not apply to disclosures made pursuant to lawful processes, emergencies, regulatory compulsion, or circumvention of flock controls. In practical terms, that carve-out covers most of the scenarios that this council is worried about. A FISA warrant, a national security letter, a grand jury subpoena, or a Cloud Act order all fall into these categories.

4:23:39That means that the clause does not protect against the large share of the access scenarios your community is concerned about. It does not meaningfully address compelled disclosures, and it does not reach situations where outside agencies benefit from things like proxy searches, informal interagency lookups.

4:23:57Legacy connections, or other routes that fall outside of a narrow category of vendor-caused unauthorized sharing event.

4:24:05So, Section 4.3 is best understood as a narrow deterrent against one category of vendor mistake, not as a real barrier to federal or interagency data sharing that most threatens a sanctuary city.

4:24:19Third, why the current guardrails are structurally inadequate.

4:24:24The packet points to several improvements, like multi-factor authentication, click-through acknowledgements about California limits on immigration and reproductive rights enforcement, monthly audits, a 30-day retention period.

4:24:38Those changes are not trivial, I'll give you that. They're stronger than the looser and less explicit baseline you started from. But Section 4.3 itself is narrower than it might appear. It only takes effect when flock causes an unauthorized sharing event.

4:24:55And that disclosure does not fall under lawful processes, emergencies, regulatory compulsion, or circumvention of control.

4:25:02That leaves the core federal compulsion scenarios outside its reach.

4:25:07The revised package also relies heavily on vendor policy and user behavior, rather than technical isolation.

4:25:15Multi-factor authentication, click-through acknowledgements, and monthly audits are improvement, but as EFF's June 2025 analysis of flock safety feature updates explains, these kinds of changes are simply insufficient.

4:25:29Prompts, user number fields, or case number fields, rather, search controls, and audit tools only work if users are truthful about what they're searching, if the logs capture the real purpose of the search, and if someone reviews and acts on those logs in real time.

4:25:46When Flock faces evidence of abuse or overreach, it tends to respond with more feature restrictions, more audit tools, and more policy language.

4:25:55But those additions do not alter the underlying architecture, which is a broad, searchable, multi-jurisdiction network where local data can be repurposed, relabeled, or reached through side doors that are difficult for communities like yours to monitor.

4:26:11That architecture is not just a civil liberties problem. It is also a public safety risk, because it creates a single target for abuse, breach, and indiscriminatory enforcement that can put your residents at danger.

4:26:28There's also a structural problem with how the contract treats what Flock calls derivative works. Under MSA, Flock property includes not just the cameras, the software, but any derivative works, intermediate, or final outputs, analysis, reports, models, or other results generated by and through the Flock services.

4:26:48And the city is not granted rights to download, download, extract, export, or keep copies of these outputs.

4:26:55In plain terms, anything that Flock Systems learns from El Cerrito's residents, pattern analysis, hot lists, model refinement, legally belong to Flock, and the city only sees it in a limited capacity through the web interface.

4:27:11This makes the system much harder to audit in terms of how it's profiling your drivers, or it's being repurposed for things like protest surveillance, or immigration enforcement, or other off-mission uses.

4:27:23Sarah Hamid (EFF): I want to pause here because of what Chief Keith mentioned about how the ALPR system does not give your police department access to continuous monitoring of individuals.

4:27:34That's true in a very narrow sense, because the MSA gives customers access only to a limited slice of the underlying data.

4:27:41But the derivative Works Clause makes it very clear that Flock itself can retain and reuse the patterns it learns from El Cerrito's data as its own property. The models, the heat maps, and analytical outputs that describe where people drive, where they sleep, which protests they intend to, which clinics they visit, where they go for worship. In other words, the city may not see a continuous feed of any one person, but the

4:28:06The vendor can build and refine continuous tracking tools

4:28:09On top of a resident's movements, and the contract gives the city absolutely no right to inspect or control those analytics.

4:28:18It's also important here not to reduce this to an issue of just formal federal compulsion, because once the plate data enters a vendor-controlled network, there are multiple pathways to access or use beyond a subpoena or a warrant.

4:28:33They can include things like proxy searches run by local officers on behalf of outside agencies, access refusion centers again, or regional databases, or cross-jurisdictional lookups.

4:28:44Or, vendor-provided investigative support and data delivery that comes in the form of analytics packages. Again, derivative work.

4:28:53So what's really at stake here?

4:28:55A one-year term might look more cautious on paper, but it does not change who holds the data and what federal compulsion tools apply, or how broadly license plate data can be shared once it's locked in a private vendor system, in this case, Flock Safety.

4:29:11The issue before the Council is not whether the revised package is marginally better than the original 2023 agreement. It probably is.

4:29:19The issue is whether those improvements are enough to make sure this system is meaningfully governable under local democratic control. EFF's answer is no. The provisions under consideration, including the

4:29:33The penalty for unauthorized sharing, the MFA, the click-through acknowledgements, do not change the fact that this remains a vendor-hosted surveillance network built for sharing and searching at scale, with real risks for sanctuary cities.

4:29:48If the goal is to protect your residents from data sharing failures and governance failures, the more reliable answer is not another round of vendor assurances or promises they simply have not been able to keep.

4:30:01It is declining to keep El Cerrito in the network, and if the city wants to ever visit ALPR in the future, doing so on very different architectural terms.

4:30:11Thank you for your time, and for taking these concerns so seriously. I'm happy to answer any questions that the Council may have.

4:30:19Sarah, thank you very much.

4:30:21Again, please, I am gonna remind the residents… yes.

4:30:25We're… we… we don't want any clapping after anything. So, okay, so we're gonna go to the third part of our presentation. Chief, I believe we have

4:30:37Chief, we have some… a representative from FLOC who's gonna come up now.

4:30:44Stop, please.

4:30:46Please. No comm. Please.

4:30:50Members of the public, please.

4:30:53Oh.

4:30:54we have an order of decorum for these meetings, we have a stated order for presentations, and we are following standard City Council protocols for how this meeting is being conducted.

4:31:08You've been asked multiple times to…

4:31:12Except that people are going to speak, you may or may not agree, but we want to create an environment where everyone has an opportunity to voice their views. Thank you.

4:31:22Max, welcome. Thank you very much. Thank you, council members. Thank you to, the public as well, and to all the residents, and every single resident and non-resident who showed up to the April 21st meeting.

4:31:33All of those who wrote in, and everyone who's in the room tonight.

4:31:36What you're doing here in El Cerrito is exactly what civic life is supposed to look like.

4:31:43I read the transcript from the last meeting. I've been sitting here since the very beginning. I went through the civics lesson and gerrymandering. I'm not here to dismiss or discount any single concern behind me or that the Council has at all.

4:31:57Yeah.

4:31:58Let me introduce myself. My name is Max, and yeah, I work for Flock.

4:32:03But I want you to know and hear who's actually standing here before this council.

4:32:08Before you decide to listen to what I say.

4:32:11And before I work at Flock, I am a father, a husband, and a high school coach who lives in a small town in New England.

4:32:19I also happen to be a former homicide detective.

4:32:22And I'm someone whose personal values, if you sat down with me over coffee, would likely line up with most of the people who actually oppose this contract.

4:32:31I don't say that to try to win you over.

4:32:34I say it because it's true.

4:32:36Because I think the conversation here has been framed over the last month as the only people who support this tool are those who do not care about civil liberties.

4:32:46I want to start by repeating what I'm hearing from this community.

4:32:49The fear is not abstract.

4:32:54People in El Cerrito have neighbors and loved ones who they worry could be detained.

4:33:00People in El Cerrito remember what happened the last time this country built a community… built, excuse me, a database around a community, and a map.

4:33:09That's not ancient history here. It's the name on your school.

4:33:14So when residents stand up and say that they're afraid of where this data goes, the answer absolutely has to be to take that fear seriously.

4:33:22And then to build the intrinsic technical architecture that addresses it. And that's what I'm here to talk about tonight.

4:33:30First, let me tell you a little bit about why I do this work, because I think it matters that you hear it from an actual person, and not from a corporate, marketing-approved slide deck.

4:33:39When I was a young new detective, I had a case where a man was tragically murdered.

4:33:44I had to walk up to his mother's door.

4:33:46I had to tell her what happened.

4:33:49And I had to stand in her living room, mere weeks later, and tell her that we had no leads.

4:33:54No answers.

4:33:56That the only thing a single witness remembered was the blur of a nondescript vehicle speeding away.

4:34:03I've carried that conversation and that case with me for a long time.

4:34:08I've thought about that mother more times than I can count, and I want to be clear about something, because it's the heart of why I'm here.

4:34:14Glock was absolutely not built to give the police or a government more power.

4:34:21Flock was built so that the next parent doesn't have to hear what I told that mother.

4:34:27That is the founding premise of this company.

4:34:30We believe, at our core, that safety is a fundamental human right.

4:34:36We build for victims.

4:34:39We don't build for surveillance, not a dragnet.

4:34:42Just a simple vehicle lead in the hands of a driven detective so that a family gets an answer.

4:34:51I've heard people in this room ask, fairly, whether this technology actually works, whether crime would have come down anyway, so I'll give you some numbers and let you draw your own conclusions.

4:35:00In an independent study of 123 different police departments around the country of different sizes, the study done with independent academic oversight found that adding a flock LPR system correlated with a 9% improvement in case clearance rate per camera per officer.

4:35:18Here in El Cerrito, your own police chief just reported a 9%… I'm sorry, a 10% increase in violent crime clearance rates, and a 95% jump in property crime clearance.

4:35:30Could some of that be organic?

4:35:33Of course.

4:35:34But clearance rate is the right measure for an investigative tool, because clearance is what changes whether a mother or a father gets that answer, and on that measure.

4:35:43The empirical evidence is consistent.

4:35:47Now, there were several arguments raised during the April 21st meeting that I've been thinking about, and that have been raised here tonight, and I'll take them one at a time.

4:35:56On the question of who else supports this tool and why it matters.

4:35:59The Oakland branch of the NAACP sent a public letter in support of expanding their flock system.

4:36:06Their argument was not about technology, it was about bias, intrinsic human bias.

4:36:12They wrote that the flock tool focuses on vehicles connected to crimes rather than subjective judgments about people, which they argued reduces the kind of interactions that have harmed Black and Brown residents in Oakland for generations.

4:36:25The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which administer the Amber Alert program, have also publicly credited their partnership.

4:36:33with Flock for helping resolve hundreds of missing children's cases.

4:36:37Just last week, a mayor of a large city in Colorado released a public statement, and I'm quoting, LPRs are a critical public safety tool.

4:36:46I'm not citing these organizations to win some arbitrary argument. I'm citing them because the framing in this room is that this is a civil rights versus law enforcement question.

4:36:56And the reality is that civil rights groups and victim advocates across the country see this tool as part of the answer, not the problem.

4:37:06Now, I want to say one thing as plainly as I know how.

4:37:10Flock has no contract with ICE.

4:37:14Period.

4:37:16None.

4:37:17I just heard a question, did they?

4:37:20We have no standing with contract with ICE, we have no ability for them to gain direct access to our system.

4:37:27Let's actually take a step backward.

4:37:29Block has never sold or monetized data.

4:37:33El Cerrito decides who sees El Cerrito's data.

4:37:37Period.

4:37:38Now, I heard a question from the audience. Did they?

4:37:41Yes.

4:37:42There was a short federal pilot with Homeland Security investigations that ended in 2025.

4:37:48This… this pilot was inked prior to the mission shift of HSI and priority changes that come with a new federal administration.

4:37:57The purpose of this pilot was to help combat human trafficking.

4:38:01Period.

4:38:02Not immigration.

4:38:04Regardless, it's ended. It's not coming back. That distinction is on the public record, I'm putting it on this record as well.

4:38:11Now, let's talk about what went wrong here in El Cerrito.

4:38:16Pro Tem Mayor Salzman, you raised a question three weeks ago, and it really has yet been to be fully answered, so I'd like to answer it for you. In 2023, two federal agencies queried the city's data. Yes.

4:38:30The U.S. Postal Inspection Service queried it, and Loma Linda Veterans Police… Veteran Affairs Police queried it.

4:38:38It shouldn't have happened The city's own flock audits caught it.

4:38:43The same architecture that we're talking about tonight, that 3 years ago, caught it.

4:38:48And your police chief disclosed it publicly as soon as he found out.

4:38:52Now, I'm not gonna stand here and tell you that that was fine.

4:38:55It wasn't.

4:38:57What I will tell you is that the major engineering changes that we've made, in dated order, all of them auditable, have made it incredibly difficult for this to occur again.

4:39:08And the representative from EFF is correct. In June 2025, which is 12 months ago.

4:39:15the systemic changes that were put in were likely not adequate. So let's go through what the system actually looks like today.

4:39:23Starting in early 2025, Flock hard-disabled every out-of-state and federal lookup

4:39:30for every single California police department.

4:39:33It is technically blocked at a platform level, bifurcated from the rest of the country.

4:39:38No user can opt back in.

4:39:41By mid-2025, we've turned on automatic filters across California for all searches dealing with immigration and reproductive care.

4:39:49And nationwide, we've separated federal agencies into a more restrictive category. By the way, these agencies can already not access California data.

4:39:58By the end of last year, every single search requires a standardized NIBR offense type. This is a type… offense type that is used at every police department nationwide.

4:40:10So no officer from here to Maine can run a query without saying what crime they're actually investigating.

4:40:17This year, we've added a continuous monitoring tool called Audit Assistance.

4:40:22I was going to show this tool to you this evening.

4:40:26I think I will give the rest of the time back to public comment.

4:40:30I'll continue, but if you'd like to see that after, I will be around.

4:40:35This watches every search. It sits in the background of the platform, it flags patterns that fall outside of an agency's normal or policy-prescribed use, and it surfaces them to administrators for review.

4:40:48So let me repeat what I just said in different terms.

4:40:51We routed engineering time away from products that make money, and put it into tools that prevent misuse.

4:41:00That's the work.

4:41:02Now, I want to address your other concern, and the concern of the EFF representative directly, because you're right.

4:41:08The penalty clause, as it's currently written, has carve-outs for lawful processes, exigent emergencies, and regulatory compulsion.

4:41:15That concern is valid, and I want to walk you through exactly what Flock will do if a federal demand, and I do say if.

4:41:23Because we have not had a federal demand to this day arrive at our door asking for El Cerrito's data.

4:41:29We're gonna push back.

4:41:32The data belongs to El Cerrito, not to Flock. We are the data custodians, you are the owner, and our first response to any federal demand will be to direct that demand back to the city where it belongs. If the federal government wants the city's data, it should ask the city.

4:41:49And also, let's remember that it's codified in California law that this data cannot be used for immigration enforcement, period.

4:42:01Now, I know there's also been some conversation about the shorter term. I know that there was a question of if we would support it. I do believe that's been answered by our legal, but of course we would engage in that conversation.

4:42:11A one-year term with a clean exit gives this Council a chance to see whether the technical architecture I just described actually holds up.

4:42:19If that's what the city wants, I would personally rather earn this contract one year at a time than take it on three, on faith alone.

4:42:27Now, I'll close with this. I am not the person that you hired to keep this community safe.

4:42:33Chief Keith Keith says, you hired him.

4:42:35You said 3 weeks ago that you trust him. He has sat in this chamber twice now and told you what went wrong, and he has told you what he is asking for to make it right.

4:42:45So I implore you to listen to your police chief.

4:42:49I'll leave you and the community with a few questions, not as a challenge, but as an invitation.

4:42:55Do you want your police department to have the tools it needs to give the family an answer when the absolute worst day of their lives happen?

4:43:03Do you want the type of policing that the Oakland NAACP described, where a police stop is based on a specific vehicle tied to a specific crime instead of a judgment call about a person?

4:43:16Do you want El Cerrito to be a city that is connected to its neighbors, that shares in the work of keeping the stretch of the bay safe, that has a seat at the table when those decisions get made?

4:43:26I think the answer to all three is yes.

4:43:29I think that this Council and this community have done the hard work to earn the right to say yes on your own terms.

4:43:35The audit that you ran, the new contract you've negotiated, the sanctuary policy on your books, and a chief who's here actively soliciting community buy-in.

4:43:45That is the chance to build on the foundation that you've created.

4:43:49And then I get to get on a plane.

4:43:52and go back to my family and my house in Connecticut, where I literally have a flock license plate reader across the street.

4:43:59Because I believe in this tool.

4:44:02I want to thank you, council members, as well as the community, for giving me this time to present Flock's perspective.

4:44:08I'm going to stick around to answer any questions the Council may have. I do have my laptop here, I realize we're running short on time, but I'm happy to give a walkthrough of the platform, and I also want to extend to the community an invitation

4:44:21My flight's at 8am tomorrow. I'm gonna be here.

4:44:25As long as you need.

4:44:27I would like to have this conversation with you, I will be around after, until they kick me out of this building, and then I'll be outside. I'm happy to have a conversation, because I think you'll find that we actually agree on a lot. Thank you.

4:44:40Thank you very much.

4:44:41Mayor, before we move on, I think we need to make a motion, and I'd like to make a motion to extend the meeting, because we're already… it's already 1050.

4:44:49Thank you, Councilmember. We do, just as a reminder, the policy is for 11 p.m. At this point in time. We have 47 requests to speak, which is, roughly an hour and 15 minutes of public comment, just for your consideration and what time you want to extend the meeting to.

4:45:05Hmm, okay.

4:45:07I was not prepared to give a time. And as a last reminder, I'll just let the Council know that the policy is that the mayor should ensure that the meeting is adjourned no later than midnight, if extended. That doesn't seem possible.

4:45:20For us to get to a vote. I'm telling you, I'm just telling you what the City Council's adopted policy says. If you don't have a time proposal, I'd say we extend it till 1230, and can hopefully end by then. I would accept that friendly amendment.

4:45:34I'll second that.

4:45:37All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.

4:45:43Mayor, if you want to take the floor back for questions, or did you want to proceed to public comment? Let's go to public comment. Okay.

4:45:58So just as a reminder, now is the time for those who wish to provide public comment on this item. You can raise your hand virtually or dial star 9 if you are calling in by phone. We will start with our in-person request to speak, which is the bulk of our request tonight.

4:46:18Hey.

4:46:23Okay, our first request, our first speaker is Catherine Kimsey, followed by Rye Crawford.

4:46:36Good evening, my name is Katherine Kimsey, I go by Rin. I'm here tonight to ask you to vote not to renew any contract with Flock.

4:46:44I have a prepared statement, but I am gonna take a risk. You guys know me by now, I'm hoping that you know I'm not hysterical. I'm gonna tell you why I'm really against this.

4:46:55Today, someone was kidnapped by ICE in San Pablo.

4:46:58And I'm here because the federal government is slowly… not slowly, quickly, making

4:47:05regular people criminals, right? They're picking up our Latino neighbors.

4:47:10Our neighbors of color, our immigrant neighbors, they're pulling people off the streets who are carrying their passports to prove their citizenship.

4:47:19And I'm really here because I'm next.

4:47:23I'm trans.

4:47:24They are trying to make it illegal to be trans. I am already in several government

4:47:30databases as trans. I cannot escape

4:47:34I am going to be here as long as I can, using my white privilege and my other privileges.

4:47:40But this… why would El Cerrito collect data on its citizens when it doesn't have to? Do this small, correct thing.

4:47:47Right? There's plenty of tools. Chief Keith went over all the tools he has. He has plenty of tools. He does not need these 40 cameras. Please do the right thing. This small, tiny thing, help us build the barn.

4:48:00Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Ray Crawford, followed by Talia.

4:48:10It's a long evening, so I'll keep it short. I'm Ray Crawford, I'm a citizen, resident of El Cerrito, homeowner, and I really am against the block

4:48:21contract renewal.

4:48:23I feel like the issues surrounding the flock data

4:48:28Are ones where we don't have good tools.

4:48:33That we hold to ensure that the data isn't

4:48:37Used for other purposes than what we intend.

4:48:41And, it has that very huge potential, and has been realized in Certain instances.

4:48:50We need to do the right thing, and we can do better than this. There are other ways people are doing it.

4:48:58And we can do the same in terms of safety.

4:49:02And tools for our police.

4:49:04Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Talia, followed by Tamiko Panzella.

4:49:12Hi, I'm Talia Davidau, and here is your neighbor as a parent, urging you not to renew El Cerrito's contract with Flock.

4:49:20Flock cameras are more than just automated license plate readers. They are tracking cameras that are always on. The system is now able to monitor movement patterns on its own and flag what it considers suspicious, alerting police without anyone asking it to. That raises real concerns.

4:49:37Organizations like the ACLU have asked important questions that I think we all deserve answers to. What does this system actually see as suspicious? Who decided that? And how do we know those decisions aren't shaped by bias, by where someone lives, by how they move through the world, or what they look like?

4:49:52Our city did not vote for technology that independently watches residents and decides who might be suspicious. That's a line we do not need to cross, and it's up to you not to cross it.

4:50:03Right now, when so much feels out of our control nationally, what you do locally really, really matters. Other cities have hit pause when they learned more about the realities of flock, and we deserve the same care. Renewing this flock contract puts our whole community at risk. Please, please do the right thing. Thank you.

4:50:20The next speaker is Tanika Penzella, followed by Jim Doganis.

4:50:30My family's been in El Cerrito since my grandparents bought their house here in 1961. They chose El Cerrito because El Cerrito was welcoming to Japanese Americans at the time.

4:50:40They almost bought a house in another city, and in that city, they're expected to have a petition signed by the neighbors allowing a Japanese family to buy that house.

4:50:48They did not buy that house, they came to El Cerrito. That is a legacy that you are tarnishing now if you go through with this contract.

4:50:56These clock cameras put our most vulnerable neighbors at risk, and if you don't feel at risk due to this surveillance, congratulations, you are very privileged and delusional.

4:51:08Be better than that.

4:51:10Would you sell your neighbors for $34,000?

4:51:15Our next speaker is Jim Doganis, followed by Timothy.

4:51:22Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, Council Members. I'm Jim Delgoneis, El Cerrito resident.

4:51:29I'm here to encourage the Council to approve the continuation of a flock camera contract, whichever contract you decide on, ultimately.

4:51:40The public…

4:51:41Safety Committee, actually the Community Safety Committee, of which I'm a member, heard a presentation at our April meeting.

4:51:50From Lieutenant Wentworth. The committee discussed the pros and cons of using flock.

4:51:56How to strengthen the contract term and relatedness.

4:52:00To the members of the public.

4:52:02came to our meeting as well, and one calm image, and I'm paraphrasing a little bit.

4:52:08But essentially the same thing that the woman from the Electronic Frontier Foundation was saying, regardless of block security.

4:52:19a federal court, subpoenas and that kind of thing can require the data to be released. Whether it's released by flock or, you know, the city approves it, that could happen.

4:52:35The other member Sad.

4:52:39you know, there's some pros and cons here, and I hear both sides, but on balance, I think this is helpful to our city, and I think we should proceed.

4:52:50We had a vote, and it was unanimous, in favor of proceeding. Thank you for your comments.

4:52:55Our next speaker… Our next speaker is Timothy, followed by Nakisha.

4:53:07My name's Timothy, I was born, raised, and currently live in El Cerrito.

4:53:12In 2023, the El Cerrito City Council listened to members of the ACLU and Oakland Privacy warn that they were not installing license plate readers. Council was informed

4:53:23That the license plate readers they were installing were actually cameras that would photograph and analyze every object that passed in front of them.

4:53:32No matter what it was, or… and as Block's patent says, may contain… may com… may contain

4:53:42Vehicles having license plates.

4:53:46Council has warned how law enforcement agencies had previously been caught sharing their license plate reader data with ICE and DHS.

4:53:55Council raised concerns about the system being used to track women that were traveling to other states in search of abortion. The Council was assured that if police departments were found

4:54:08other police departments were found using the system for immigration or abortion tracking purposes, that it would treat those as junk data and toss it out. Now, 3 years later, City Council has found that

4:54:24Police departments had not done any monitoring of what other agencies were searching our cameras for.

4:54:34Now 3 years later, City Council… Thank you for your comments. Our next speaker is Nakisha, followed by Jamie Yang.

4:54:45My name is Nakisha. My daughter and I live in El Cerrito, near the Del Norte Park.

4:54:51As a survivor of stalking and assault, I want to raise concerns about a mounting number of documented cases where bad actors abused their access to flock data.

4:55:04Former Sedgwick, Kansas, police chief Lee Nygaard used flock data to track his ex-girlfriend's vehicles 228 times.

4:55:16Michael Stephman, the former police chief of Brusselton, Georgia, used flock data to stalk and harass multiple private citizens who were not being investigated for crimes.

4:55:26Earlier this year, Milwaukee Officer Ayala tagged investigation on nearly 200 searches of his girlfriend and his ex's license plates, and was discovered not through Flock's own audit, but an independent transparency tool

4:55:43haveibeenflocked.com.

4:55:45Regardless of how secure ECPD thinks our data is, Clock is a system without safeguards.

4:55:52And unethical access almost always, almost always directed at vulnerable women.

4:55:59He is indistinguishable from legitimate police work.

4:56:03Terminate this contract. Thank you.

4:56:06Our next speaker is Jamie Yang, followed by Megan Steffen.

4:56:11Okay, we'll go to Megan Steffen, followed by Bill Barish.

4:56:19I'm Megan Steffen, and I already introduced myself. It's good to see you all, even if it's quite late. I just want to make sure we don't get distracted. This is about our contract with Flock. I heard Chief Keith talking about other camera systems.

4:56:32These are red herrings as far as I'm concerned. I also heard the nice lobbyist from Flock talk to us, so it was very nice of them to send him out. I'm still not convinced. It's obviously his job to make his company sound really good, and I hope he's compensated well for that… for now. The systems…

4:56:49Like, none of this…

4:56:51has to do with Flock's terrible track record. Like, this is a company that has made mistakes. We do not have to be part of this.

4:57:00You know, this is what these companies do. Block is trying to quarter the market, they are trying to generate fear and FOMO, and then they are going to raise prices once everyone is locked in. We don't have the money for that, and we shouldn't be doing this. This is a company with a bad reputation that has made mistakes, where they openly admit that the data is not secure.

4:57:20You as our city council members need Do the legwork.

4:57:25You know, Mayor Quinto, I see you nodding. I see that you all have already made up your mind, you don't even have any questions for the people who are coming and giving these presentations. Please, don't say that. That is not true. I am listening to you. Thank you. Thank you.

4:57:43I think you cannot take the path of least resistance. There's a lot of fear, a lot of lack of trust. People are really paying attention to what you're doing. They're putting into the entire narrative of the budget.

4:57:53Our next speaker is Bill Barrish, followed by Jiggy Geronimo.

4:58:05Good evening. I believe all of you, if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong, are all Large D Democrats.

4:58:13I believe that if you listen carefully.

4:58:20You will hear your constituents asking you to be small D Democrats.

4:58:28And to thereby bolster true democracy.

4:58:33I took the time earlier this afternoon to read through all 220 pages of the accompanying document to this item, just to see what was in there.

4:58:44And… From last week's meeting and tonight.

4:58:50I can tell you that the vast majority of comments, both in person and in writing, are telling you to jettison this contract with Flock

4:59:03And so please listen to your constituents.

4:59:09That's what they're asking you to do.

4:59:15Our next speaker is Gigi Geronimo, followed by Tova Feldmanstern.

4:59:20Hi, I'm Jiggy Geronimo. I live just up the hill from Castro Park with my husband and two kids.

4:59:24And like everyone here, I just want to feel safe walking, biking, driving around El Cerrito. And I'll say, I have never actually felt unsafe in El Cerrito until I learned about the flock cameras. This is the same flock that's partnered with Palantir, with ICE, and with Trump.

4:59:41And I know that they say that they don't have direct access, but they say direct access on purpose. That is their PR move to cover up what they are doing, because federal agencies can have indirect access to our data. What are we doing? It is the year 2026, when masked agents are literally kidnapping people on the streets and labeling dissenters as domestic terrorists.

5:00:02This is a reputable city of El Cerrito. We cannot be doing business with a company that is so untrustworthy that 50 cities have canceled their contracts in the past 10 months. Even Ring, which is a mass surveillance company, has canceled its contract with Flock because Flock is so toxic.

5:00:20At a time of rising fascism, we're really relying on you to protect us, and voting to renew this contract is like you pretending like we are not living in 1939 Germany.

5:00:31How will you feel in 6 months or a year if our neighbors get kidnapped and you know that you greenlit the technology that made that happen? I took my kids in tonight before I came here, and I know I can tell them that I fought it. So what will you tell your kids and your grandkids? Please vote to terminate this contract.

5:00:48Our next speaker is Tova Feldman Stern, followed by Rashi Miller.

5:00:57Thank you, Chief Keith, and thank you, Mr. Weinstein, for your… for your presentations. I have so many ideas about how, meaning-making, could be enhanced for the police. There's, you know, there's people houseless all up and down the Ohlone Greenway. We could work with them, help… help make more meaning, you know?

5:01:15There's so many things we could do with our resources.

5:01:18And Mr. Weinstein, you talked about the… the mother who you had to come face-to-face with, who… who had… who had… had her child killed.

5:01:27And you wanted to give her an answer, but there's no answers for that shit.

5:01:30There's no answers.

5:01:32There's no answers.

5:01:34Locking people up, mass incarcerating people? That's not an answer.

5:01:38That doesn't do shit.

5:01:40Anyway, I've prepared a musical number, some of us are gonna… Help me with that.

5:01:47Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry.

5:01:50It's okay to change your mind so much for it. Leave Fox behind

5:01:59It's okay to change your mind.

5:02:05You can join us!

5:02:08Join us at any time!

5:02:12Thank you for being on City Council. I really appreciate y'all.

5:02:17You're so brave, you're so strong, you're so, like, hardworking.

5:02:21And… Maybe one day I can be like you.

5:02:24Thank you.

5:02:25Our next speaker is Rashley Miller, followed by Joanna Lawrence Shenk.

5:02:32Rashi's still here?

5:02:36Okay, we'll go to Joanna Lawrence Schenk, followed by Rosa.

5:02:47Good evening, Council. My name is Reverend Joanna Lawrence Shank. I'm an El Cerrito resident and a parent of two teenagers.

5:02:53As a faith leader, I am imploring you to make the moral choice

5:02:58In this time of rising authoritarianism.

5:03:02As a sanctuary city, we must say no to techno-fascist mass surveillance.

5:03:08There are lots of things you can't do to protect our community from the federal government, but turning off the flock cameras is one thing that you can do.

5:03:18I ask you to make the morally courageous choice and vote not to renew the flock contract or approve a new one.

5:03:26Obviously, it's a contentious decision, we're all here, it's late, but it is not morally ambiguous.

5:03:34Furthermore, our police department has many other cameras they can use to solve crimes.

5:03:40In this moment, when the federal government is acting in violent and vindictive ways towards non-citizens and citizens alike, who challenge their fascist ideology, I implore you to not aid them in their efforts, but instead to protect

5:03:58Our community. Vote no.

5:04:01Our next speaker is Rosa, followed by Cynthia McPherson.

5:04:05Rosa, as your constituent, I recommend you, renew the flock camera.

5:04:14If ICE is gonna come down, I think most… the most likely person… well, I'd be one of the people picked up.

5:04:22NS…

5:04:23I'm not scared of… I mean, I'm not afraid of that. I think it really makes sense to give the El Cerrito Police Department a tool to solve crime. I do care about the safe community we have in El Cerrito, so thank you very much for renewing. Just renew the contract, because if it does, you know, you can terminate it.

5:04:41And then the other comment is.

5:04:44This is really late, and it would be awesome if we had members of the public, El Cido residents, join the community safety meeting. We meet once a month.

5:04:53And…

5:04:54By joining the committee, we're open to opinion on how to make El Cerrito safer. We're trying to promote fire and safety in El Cerrito, so this would be awesome if everyone here joined the… we have room for everyone. Join Community Safety. Thank you. Have a good day. Our next speaker is Cynthia McPherson, followed by Howard Hickman.

5:05:18Hello, my name is Cindy McPherson. I do live in El Cerrito, and I'm here to ask you, do not renew or contract in any way with Flock.

5:05:27We are a sanctuary city, and Sarah, who stayed up till 1AM, explained all of this better. We know that Flock has settings to define how we share our data, but we also know that we cannot ensure that those settings are maintained when subpoenaed by federal agencies.

5:05:45You asked at the last meeting that Chief Keith come back with a better negotiation with Flock, and we can tell from his presentation that skirted those details today, and asked you to renew the old contract that he failed to do so.

5:06:00Max gave you a sad story of a family's loss.

5:06:05I hold vigil every week with members of the Bay Area Interfaith community at the ICE Building in San Francisco. We have people who are there five days a week, and we witness many more families experiencing loss and separation at the hands of unjust and lawless federal enforcement.

5:06:23We just heard about the city's fiscal distress, and this surveillance technology opens us to costs that will undermine the work that's been done on our budget. This is because at least one court has held that flock camera data are subject to public records requests, which can be costly to respond to.

5:06:42And lastly, Flock is an unworthy, untrustworthy company that does not deserve our business. Thank you. Our next speaker is Howard Hickman, followed by Michael Balmacita.

5:06:57Good evening, my name is Howard Hickman.

5:06:59Thank you for all you do. I appreciate it. Appreciate your time.

5:07:05I support, the using, the renewal of the contract to give, the police department, the tool

5:07:15Of license plate readers.

5:07:18In an ideal world.

5:07:23We should not have license plate cameras. We should have had cameras at all. An ideal rule, though.

5:07:28We should not have crime. But in reality, we do have crime.

5:07:32I also sit on the, El Cerrito Security Committee. Safety Committee, excuse me, Safety Committee.

5:07:40We've heard both the success stories that the police department has done by using the license plate cameras. We also heard from the security concerns.

5:07:52And we voted unanimously to support this.

5:07:55I hope you do. Thank you.

5:07:58Our next speaker is Michael.

5:08:00Balmacita, followed by Rebecca Kenny.

5:08:06Michael, are you still here?

5:08:08Okay, we'll go to Rebecca Kenney, followed by Jason Martins.

5:08:19Hi, I live near El Cerrito Plaza, and I passed 9 flock cameras that may have been watching me on my way here. I oppose the renewal of the flock contract.

5:08:31As we have heard, Flock willfully deceives and misleads cities about the lack of privacy and data security controls in its contracts and protocols. And working with Flock opens up the people of El Cerrito to surveillance by DHS and makes our community less safe and less secure.

5:08:50And I also want to challenge the narrative of futility and inevitability in the face of looming authoritarianism.

5:08:56I was 6 on 9-11, so I've grown up under a mass surveillance regime. It has been woven throughout the fabric of my entire life.

5:09:04But I couldn't speak out when I was 6, but I can now.

5:09:08My children will still likely grow up under mass surveillance, but the choices we make now can change the course for my grandchildren. And a better world is possible. People across the country are waking up and standing up for their neighbors, from Minneapolis to Missouri.

5:09:23Dozens of cities across the country, including Santa Cruz and Mountain View, have recognized Flock's complicity and cooperation with the federal regime's reign of terror and canceled their flock contracts.

5:09:34A better world is coming if we work toward it. We want to go there. We want El Cerrito to lead there. We hope you will come with us. Canceling the flock contract is a step toward our better future.

5:09:47And I am one of the other people who is on the federal hit list. I have an X marker on my passport because I am trans. At some point, the federal government will come for me, and I hope that block cameras will not be one of the things that help them do that. Thank you.

5:10:06Our next speaker is Jason Martins, followed by Peter.

5:10:13Good evening, my name is Jason, and I'm from Berkeley, where we are having the same debate, and I'd like to read some reporting that just came out this evening from the Daily Cal.

5:10:23A leaked memorandum from the City of Berkeley's Attorney Office about flock safety warned that flock technology might be incapable of complying with city, state, and federal unauthorized data sharing restrictions.

5:10:36Consequently, it warned Berkeley could be liable for up to tens of millions of dollars from potential lawsuits. They warned of possible legal claims that Flock violated citizens' Fourth Amendment privacy rights, California sanctuary law, state law regulating license plate data sharing, and the California Public Records Act.

5:10:54Citing a previously threatened lawsuit by Secure Justice, the City Attorney's Office wrote that the city could be liable for a $22,500 penalty per camera and per image disclosed, which could cumulatively cost $30 to $60 million.

5:11:09So if you are concerned about your budget, I think you should highly recommend… I highly recommend you consider this risk from the city attorney's office in Berkeley. Thank you.

5:11:20Our next speaker is Peter, followed by Mike Katz-Lacabre.

5:11:25As I say, I live in El Sweeto for over 30 years.

5:11:30And I have listened to the police chief. They convinced me that

5:11:35The safety camera is really a very effective tool.

5:11:40To, help solve crimes.

5:11:43And the representative from the company, so that it really can take clear pictures of the license plate.

5:11:51Which made me really appreciate that the city council didn't…

5:11:57Use it to issue traffic tickets to enrich city's logic.

5:12:03So, as long as you guys reject this temptation, To ease… to use the… System to…

5:12:14Hand out traffic ticket, like, Like, discount groups.

5:12:20then I'm all for.

5:12:22boss. Thank you.

5:12:24Our next speaker is Mike Katz-LeCabe, followed by Rosie Fay.

5:12:30Good evening, my name is Mike Catsukabe, I'm the Director of Research at Oakland Privacy and a former El Cerrito resident. The description of these cameras as license plate readers is disingenuous. The cameras capture images of whatever triggers the motion sensor, including people, bicyclists, and animals, and makes that searchable.

5:12:45There is no guarantee that the vendor won't use those images for other purposes, and they do, for training, for traffic analysis, including suspicious… suspicious travel patterns.

5:12:56There is a huge difference between a cell phone and these cameras. The cell phone provider can't arrest me. Police need a law enforcement to search a cell phone.

5:13:04But they can freely search all the data from these license plate readers.

5:13:07After nearly 3 years, your department confirmed that its date had been available to federal agencies in violation of a California state law enacted 10 years ago. And now you seek to reward the vendor by giving them a no-bid contract and more money?

5:13:21Even now, you cannot prevent other agencies from using the data to search for immigration enforcement or stalking, as many cops continue to do.

5:13:30Instead of providing an analysis of the effectiveness of El Cerrito's cameras, the chief provided anecdotes and essentially suggested that the police didn't solve crime before the cameras were installed. While clearance rates may have improved, they were so bad in 2022 that any improvement in policing could have been responsible.

5:13:47Also, decreases in crime are a trend nationwide and cannot be attributed to this mass surveillance. Thank you very much for your time.

5:13:55Our next speaker is Rosie Fay, followed by Brian Fogg.

5:14:02Hello, I'm Rosie Fay, I'm an El Cerrito resident, and I'm here to urge you all to cancel our contract with Flock, especially since it's estimated to be $300,000, after hearing about our budget deficit here in El Cerrito.

5:14:16I was planning on giving a pre-written speech today, but I've decided to answer some of the questions and thoughts after the flock representatives spoke earlier.

5:14:26So first, I want to address one of the studies the Flock representative used. That study, was first funded by FLOC, but then used correlation to insinuate causation. Causation with decrease in crime and camera systems does not mean the latter helped with the former, so I want to make that clear.

5:14:45The second thing is he framed this entire conversation as civil liberties versus cops.

5:14:52And I think this framing does us a huge disservice and does not capture the real issue here, which is that El Cerrito citizens are asking you, as our representatives, to not renew our flock contract. That is key here. And finally, he posed this question to us, which is, do we want our police to have the tools to solve crime?

5:15:11Personally, I would much rather we fund life-affirming care that proactively prevents crime, rather than focus on aftermath of crime once harm has already happened.

5:15:22If surveillance truly created public safety, then all crimes it has tracked would not have happened in the first place.

5:15:29Therefore, I strongly urge you to vote against the contract with flock tonight. Thank you.

5:15:34Our next speaker is Brian Fogg, followed by Melissa Newton.

5:15:41Good evening, members of the City Council. My name's Ryan Fogg. I'm a third-generation El Cerrito resident.

5:15:47In my day-to-day work, I basically run a software consulting firm.

5:15:52And my primary objective with my clients is to handle network security, data sovereignty.

5:16:01I work with a lot of AI startups in San Francisco, currently.

5:16:05Right now we're securing You know, high-value legal data, and

5:16:10That he used for medical research.

5:16:13So, I'm a bit of a subject matter expert on the topic, so bear with me while I get into some slightly technical details.

5:16:20Mmm.

5:16:21As recently as last month, there was a report from a website called Footnote4A. I sent an email with the link to all of you earlier.

5:16:30One of the only tools that we really have to verify that what Flock is telling us is true is audit logs.

5:16:37These audit logs have been analyzed by researchers, There appeared to be some… Discrepancies in what we're seeing.

5:16:48So if Max is around tomorrow, and any of you meet with him, if you want a hard-hitting question, I'd like you to ask him, can you guarantee that Fox audit logs are immutable, that no record once written has ever been altered, deleted, or replaced, and if so, can you provide a cryptographic proof for independent third-party attestation of that guarantee?

5:17:07Does anybody want a cup of coffee, by the way? I've got coffee in the lobby, I can bring it up for you. Thank you for your comments. Our next speaker is Melissa Newton, followed by Kate Bolton-Schmuckler.

5:17:22Hi, I'm a resident for 13 years. I just want to be clear, no one here is arguing that they don't want to self-safe El Cerrito.

5:17:29The issue is that the flock system makes us less safe, because it repeatedly shares data with outside agencies without the consent of local police departments, despite saying that they would never do that.

5:17:42which targets our immigrant families, anti-Trump protesters, and vulnerable people like those seeking abortions and gender-affirmative care.

5:17:49While ECPD feels that flock is helpful, the question here is the cost of this feeling of helpfulness on our community at large. Do you trust a company that said they are protecting our residents' data when so many instances show that they're not?

5:18:04In May 2025, national flock data was reported to be used in Texas to persecute a woman for having an out-of-state abortion.

5:18:12I don't want flock data being used to track people who visit our Planned Parenthood clinic in the El Cerrito Plaza.

5:18:18That's not our El Cerrito values.

5:18:21In August 2025, Flock admitted to starting a pilot program with Border Control and U.S. Customs.

5:18:27I don't want slot cameras in El Cerrito to aid ICE in abducting our immigrant neighbors in El Cerrito when they drop their kids off at Harding Elementary School.

5:18:35That's not our El Cerrito values.

5:18:38In November 2025, Block data was reported as being used by law enforcement agencies. Oops, already said that.

5:18:45No, wait, I didn't. Including Border Patrol, to target protesters. I don't want my neighbors to be arrested for going to No Kings protests, especially since we had two separate events on March 28th. Thank you for your comments. Our next speaker is Katie Bolton-Schmuckler.

5:19:00Followed by Anna Daly.

5:19:08Hello, my name is Kate. I have been a resident of El Cerrito ever since Millie Vanilli won a Grammy.

5:19:14Aye!

5:19:15I'm here today to ask you to stop this contract with Flock. I know there's been a big concern about public safety, but I think a lot of our residents and our merchants on San Pablo don't even know what's going on.

5:19:26I've been doing a lot of talking with some folks, and they don't even know that these cameras are connected to Flock, which has been known to have connections with ICE. And a lot of our immigrant neighbors

5:19:36don't want to come here tonight because they don't feel safe leaving their house. I may or may not know some people who are delivering groceries right now to people who are afraid to leave their house because of ice.

5:19:47and families that have… that are currently dealing with relatives being abducted by ICE, and, you know, it's not like the good old days when they just got deported. We're dealing with pro-profit concentration camps where kids are getting raped by ICE agents. This is not…

5:20:0110 years ago, 2026, we are staring down the barrel of fascism, and I would really just appreciate it if my council actually protected us from what I think is the biggest crime of all, which is fascism and authoritarianism.

5:20:16And I want to hear, you know, I'm here tonight to speak up for the folks that were too afraid to show up.

5:20:21Because, you know, I'm a white chick, so I try to use this face when I can.

5:20:26Please, please do not renew this contract, and we will be keeping touch and see who votes how, because a November election is coming up when we don't forget. Thank you for your time. Our next speaker is Anna Daly, followed by Joe Koff.

5:20:40Cauliff?

5:20:45Good evening. My name is Anna Daly, and I work in West Contra Costa Unified School District in Special Education.

5:20:53The children I work with have profound disabilities and rely on our schools for critical services in addition to their education. This includes children with feeding tubes who access nursing care.

5:21:05But many families across our district, including in El Cerrito, are keeping their kids home from school for fear of them being stolen by ICE.

5:21:14As we heard from the police chief this evening, extra cameras are placed around our local schools.

5:21:22Family separation directly impacts El Cerrito. If you vote in favor of flock.

5:21:27You are helping surveil beloved members of our community who are being disappeared.

5:21:33Flock has also been shown to be highly vulnerable to cyber attacks and hacking.

5:21:38Our finance team just told us about the city's ongoing struggle to keep sensitive data secure.

5:21:45Tonight, we heard a dire financial picture. If El Cerrito can't afford one fire engine, how are you going to pay for flock?

5:21:54We have seen… we have seen cities across the country incur massive legal expenses over flock-related privacy violations authorized by city councils.

5:22:04Has the Finance Committee and City Attorney Woodruff factored projected legal costs into this budget? Resistance to flock is mounting across El Cerrito, the Bay Area, and the country. Please vote no. Protect our communities. Our next speaker is Joe Calif, followed by Thomas Ringer-Silva.

5:22:25Good evening, everyone. My name's Joe Califf, I'm a resident of El Cerrito. I have two small children, want to raise them in a great, safe place.

5:22:33Given that, I do not want to give up their personal freedoms.

5:22:36I think one thing to note about this system is it's not just a license plate reader product. Flock is a whole platform. They have a system called Freeform that's AI search that finds people by physical description.

5:22:48They have Concord, which is video-based capabilities, Raven, which is marketed for gunshot detection, but actually detects human voices in distress and far-detecting audio. There's a patent, and I sent you the number of this patent, that literally classifies people by race, gender, height, and weight into searchable records.

5:23:06on file.

5:23:07these are the things that we're talking about. And I want to decouple, you know, our chief of police and our police department. I am sure and I believe they are good faith folks, and that this would go well, and they would use this right. That's not really the concern here. The concern is what they can't do with it, what the systems and the corporations behind them do.

5:23:26And, you know, the contractual language alone has repeatedly failed to prevent misuse and unauthorized access. These promises about local access, you know, and security are nullified by the network vendor practices. Once that data leaves our local control, it's queried, it's shared access by these outside actors.

5:23:44So, in a time where we have more and more bad faith actors, we can't rely on everybody being just, you know, we're… trust us, we're gonna do well with this.

5:23:52The South Bay, Mountain View, Santa Cruz, Los Altos, all those folks have cut flock. Let's join them.

5:23:58Thank you. Our next speaker is Thomas Riga-Silva, followed by Tuan… No?

5:24:07Hello, I'm Tomas. Mine actually segues great from that.

5:24:11So I want to highlight that this isn't just about license plate readers, right? This is about Flock specifically.

5:24:18like, we can come back, we can talk about Motorola, or Vigilant, or Axon, or the other ones,

5:24:24I do programming and data analysis, so, like, this is kind of my area, but I wish I had been able to preface this and have some citations for you.

5:24:32But Flock is not like the other companies. They're tied in with some pretty weird stuff,

5:24:39They've created databases of, yeah, based on gender, like he said, which is…

5:24:45not great, given the current federal administration's stance on trans people.

5:24:50They don't sell their data, that's true. They don't have a B2B contract, with Palantir.

5:24:57They make their data available at the level of local offices, and then Palantir's Thunderbird system can collect that

5:25:04I put it within the, Palantir Gotham system that you might know.

5:25:09So it's getting there anyway and creating those giant national databases that we should be worried about.

5:25:14So… We can talk about license plate readers, but let's focus this on the, like.

5:25:21Or do we want to do this?

5:25:23Right now, when the federal government is the way that it is,

5:25:28They're… they're called flock. Like, we're the sheep in that.

5:25:32Okay, that's all I got.

5:25:36Our next speaker is Tuan Nyo, followed by Andre Bassler.

5:25:41So… I've heard that people say, fuck, Was canceled, or paused in…

5:25:49XY city, and that's about 40 cities. But how many cities actually use flock?

5:25:55It's actually over 6,000 cities and communities and staff independently, in these cities.

5:26:03almost exclusively use Flock because it's extremely helpful in solving violent crimes, repeat robberies, shootings, homicides, human trafficking, you name it.

5:26:19So, do your math.

5:26:21align with 99% of cities that independently evaluated vendors and chose FOC and chose public safety. Don't front math!

5:26:3340…

5:26:34or 50 out of 6,000 align with the 99%. That's why the city of Oakland, that paused the flock cameras, floated 7 to 1,

5:26:44to restore the flock cameras. Same with Richmond. They voted to restore the flock camera to rescue a young girl that was a victim of human trafficking.

5:26:56So, do your math, don't fuck math.

5:26:59Because violent crimes cost money.

5:27:03Expensive, Hospital bills from assaults of our seniors, Expensive.

5:27:09Robberies, ram and robs, these are crimes that have been solved by flock. Priceless. Our next speaker is Andre Basler, followed by Chris R.

5:27:25Good evening, Mayor Kinto, Councilmembers, my name is Andre.

5:27:30I've been living in Australia for about 2 decades, and I'm asking you tonight to renew the contract for dog safety.

5:27:37I trust my city government, I trust our police, and like other agencies, our professionals here have determined that Flock helps solve crime and prevent crime.

5:27:48I'm one of those phases behind the statistics. A few years ago, the catalytic converter was a sword of my car.

5:27:56Right in front of my house, and apparently it was part of a wave hitting our neighborhood. But consider this.

5:28:02If I had walked out while they were under my car, what would have happened? Or my wife? Or my child?

5:28:09These people committed a brisen crime.

5:28:11crime, and they didn't care. I could have been shot.

5:28:15Right in front of my house.

5:28:17A flock alert at night might have gotten him off the street.

5:28:20I also speak from professional experience. I work in utilities, airports, and seaports, where this technology protects workers, the public, and our infrastructure every day. It's mature, accountable, and effective.

5:28:32I respect concerns about surveillance, but remember, we had the same debate about body cameras, and today, body cams are broadly supported, even, or maybe especially, by civil liberties advocates.

5:28:43Because oversight works.

5:28:45Flock is no different.

5:28:47It reads license plates on public roads.

5:28:50No faces, no profiles, just a targeted tool, not a dragnet.

5:28:54Thank you for your comments. Our next speaker is Chris R, followed by Jenny Patchin.

5:29:07First of all, I'd like to say good evening to the City Council and everybody who's here. My name is Chris, I live in El Cerrito. I am both, trans and,

5:29:17Latine, which means I am, two things that actually, fall under a lot of these categories. I did actually want to follow up on the, a little bit of what was said before, in that

5:29:28We talked about Flock not being a dragnet, and that it wasn't a full surveillance tool. I did actually want to bring up

5:29:36A product that actually flocked

5:29:38falls under Flock's, platform, which is Raven. It was originally marketed to cities as a gunshot detection system. It was a very narrow, specific tool used specifically for, identifying the sound of firearms discharging. Many areas in the Bay, approved it on those terms.

5:29:54In October 2025, Flock did announce that Raven would begin using artificial intelligence to analyze human voices and conversations, not just gunshots.

5:30:05That's… not gunshot detection. That's…

5:30:08literally ambient audio surveillance. That's just a surveillance net, now including audio.

5:30:14The capability now exists in systems that were approved and purchased by other cities for an entirely different purchase… for an entirely different process.

5:30:23Under contracts that probably weren't thought of for that issue.

5:30:29This pattern will continue.

5:30:31So, this pattern is what we were asking the Council to consider tonight. It's one of the things that we're trying to be like, hey… Thank you for your comments. Our next speaker is Jenny Patchin, followed by Sandy Davis.

5:30:44Is Jenny still here?

5:30:46Okay, we'll go to Sandy Davis, followed by Radhika G.

5:31:00Good evening, my name is Sandy Davis, and I've lived in El Cerrito for 12 years.

5:31:05I'm urging you not to renew this contract or enter into any other contract with Flock.

5:31:10They have shown themselves to be an untrustworthy partner, and I do not feel safe with them having access to our community's information.

5:31:16I'm raising two kids here in El Cerrito, and I value safety, but our police department already has plenty of tools to help solve crime. In times like these, we need to be extra thoughtful about the consequences of our decisions.

5:31:27And our city doesn't need this partnership. I urge you all again not to renew this contract. Thank you.

5:31:33Our next speaker is Radhika G, followed by Nina.

5:31:42Hi, I'm Roddy, and an El Cerrito resident. The proof is in the pudding here. You can either naively listen to the people that are meant to sell these products to you, because they're actually being paid, right? There's a conflict of interest here.

5:31:56Or you can actually look at the facts that are out there, the data that is out there, the independent research that is done. Flock is not helping crime rates.

5:32:05I've had my car stolen in El Cerrito. I've also had a gun pull out on me and flocked in and do anything. These things happen, and honestly, I'd rather rely on

5:32:17competent police officers, rather than technology that can be hacked at any time. San Jose is suing Flock.

5:32:27Like, you're talking about budget cuts, and you're willing to take a risk that can bring a legal issue at your front door, after all the hard work that you've done to get out of this.

5:32:40Death.

5:32:45The next speaker… Our next speaker is Nina, followed by Ron Singh.

5:32:51Okay, we'll go, to Ron Singh, followed by Oscar Garcia.

5:33:00Hello. I'm a resident of El Cerrito. I live a few blocks from here. I walked over today.

5:33:06I'm asking you not to renew this contract.

5:33:10You are selling us out if you renew this contract.

5:33:14These are images of people who live in this city.

5:33:18And they're being given over. In fact, we're paying to give these images of us and our movements to a private company that has worked with ICE and is going to lay down every single time the administration asks them for this data. This is selling us out.

5:33:39Number 2.

5:33:40This is a scam.

5:33:42We have no idea if any of this works.

5:33:45The police chief Looked at a newspaper.

5:33:49And figured out that Crime was going down, and didn't know why.

5:33:55Maybe it was because of this thing.

5:33:57This is not serious stuff.

5:34:00The salesman came here and said that independent research was done to show the effectiveness of these systems.

5:34:08I'm a professor at UC Berkeley.

5:34:10I opened up the database of all the research articles I had access to. There is not a single hit

5:34:17on flock safety.

5:34:19This is a scam. This is unsafe. You are selling us out if you renew us this contract. Thank you.

5:34:26Our next speaker is Oscar Garcia, followed by Colin Elbasani.

5:34:33Good evening, my name is Oscar Garcia, I'm president of the 23rd Street Merchants Association in Richmond.

5:34:39I would like to urge El Cerrito to prioritize the safety of its own residents and nearby communities when deciding on the flock contract. What you decide today has regional implications, and those most vulnerable, like children, the elderly, and local businesses, will be most affected.

5:34:57When Richmond turned its cameras off, it saw a 100% increase in shootings and 33% increase in car theft. Is this the direction El Cerrito wants to go?

5:35:08The cameras are also used for fire safety in most cities, and for other non-law enforcement purposes.

5:35:16These cameras provide multiple levels of public safety, and more than pay for themselves when compared to hiring people to do the same work.

5:35:25Protecting our immigrant community from Trump's immigration enforcement is a huge priority for me. I am equally concerned about the local immigrant community being the excuse to eliminate flock.

5:35:38Yes, Flock messed up in how they managed data, but there's no proof that anyone was affected from any… from an immigration standpoint since these cameras were implemented in 2023.

5:35:50What is proven is that immigrants represent a large portion of victims of crime and benefit most from what occurs today. So please do the right thing and renew this contract. Thank you.

5:36:04Our next speaker is Colin Elbasani, followed by George Gajor.

5:36:10Good evening, council members. I'm actually from Berkeley.

5:36:14Years ago, my twin brother passed away, tragically, and the only thing that I inherited from him, well, it was a lot, was a Toyota Tacoma.

5:36:22And I was devastated one night when it was stolen from my property in Berkeley. I was equally relieved when it surfaced in El Cerrito, and that was due to flock image recognition, not finding it and apprehending those who took it.

5:36:38At the end of the day, though, It's just a car.

5:36:42It pales in comparison to the sigh of relief I'm sure victims of violent crime and their families feel when perpetrators are apprehended and taken off the streets.

5:36:54you can't, in good conscience, deny your residents here in El Cerrito this technology. It has proven to be powerful. I know it myself from my own anecdote.

5:37:04That said, you know, I really appreciate the opposition here tonight.

5:37:10The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, and I am sure they will be vigilant.

5:37:16So whatever your decision here tonight, I would like to say to them that their role in all of this does not end here tonight with that decision.

5:37:25It begins… Thanks.

5:37:28Our next speaker is George Gager, followed by Eric Lawrence Schenk.

5:37:43Hello, my name is George Gager. I am a member of the Public Safety Committee here in El Cerrito.

5:37:51And, I've been here 20 years.

5:37:55I've spent, the last 25 or 30 years

5:38:01traveling through 41 states, working for HUD,

5:38:04On, real estate developments and, management of those properties.

5:38:10Looking at more than half a million units.

5:38:15The vast majority of which have security not unlike that provided by Flock.

5:38:21It's, it's essential to the security of those properties and the communities, that they're in.

5:38:31My work has included,

5:38:34New York City, Detroit, San Francisco, Marin County, New Orleans, Westchester, Pennsylvania, and hundreds of cities

5:38:44That are modest, and you've probably never heard of them.

5:38:48The cameras in those communities capture data, That helps ensure the safety

5:38:54Of the great families that live there.

5:38:57We need to have a contractor who will provide the data that we need.

5:39:04I have never worked with Flock.

5:39:07But I know two gigantic companies that they work for.

5:39:11That I have a relationship that goes back 30 or 40 years. Thank you for your comments. They wouldn't have worked for them if they weren't that… that good. Thank you for your comments. Our next speaker is Eric Lawrence Schenk, followed by Brenda… Brenda Grisham.

5:39:28Good evening, Council. Thanks for staying here so late. Just wanted to… my name's Eric Lauren Schenk. I'm a citizen here in El Cerrito, and I just wanted to bring a couple things that I found that I thought citizens might find distressing, just something for them to take into account.

5:39:48The Electronic Frontier Foundation, they obtained and analyzed 12 million flock safety searches logged by 3,900 law enforcement agencies. Among those searches, they found hundreds explicitly linked to political demonstrations.

5:40:05Officers logged searches with reasons referencing to no King's protests?

5:40:10And the hands-off rallies?

5:40:12This is not surveillance of criminal suspects, this is documented use of

5:40:18This is documented use of a license plate reader network to monitor the political activity of American residents who are exercising First Amendment rights.

5:40:28Also, Flock has never produced a transparency report.

5:40:33Apple publishes one.

5:40:35Every year, disclosing how many times governments have demanded user data.

5:40:41Google does, so does Microsoft. These reports are imperfect, of course, but they give the public some visibility into how their data is being accessed by law enforcement. Block Safety never published one.

5:40:55There's no public record whether Flock has received federal legal demands for those data, or any city's data. Thank you. Our next speaker is Brenda Grisham, followed by Boris Krisinov.

5:41:10Good evening to all of you. My name is Brenda Grisham. I'm the Executive Director of East Bay Alliance for Public Safety, and I'm also the Principal Officer of SAFE, who recalled the District Attorney for public safety reasons. I'm here today because public safety is very important to me.

5:41:26My son was murdered in Oakland in 2010 on New Year's Eve.

5:41:30a honors student, and to this day, his crime is not solved. I wish we had flock cameras.

5:41:36I work with hundreds of families who wish there were flock cameras, and some whose cases have been solved by flock cameras, by license plate reader, by finding and pulling over cars that had murderers, that had criminals. I'm also a business owner, so I deal with the business owners in Oakland. We were instrumental in getting the flock contract passed in Oakland. We just got the flock contract

5:41:58passed, in Alameda County, and we were in Richmond, and a young lady from Oakland was trafficked to Richmond, and her flight cameras were off.

5:42:07So they could not…

5:42:08see where she was, and her phone was pinging. So, to this day, we still have no idea where that young lady is, and I will be in Berkeley again, because public safety is not a political thing. It's about the business owners who are losing

5:42:21things that they work their life for. It's families that are looking for someone that can be found. It's young ladies that are being trafficked. And I urge you to think about those things, as well as, you know, the immigrants are an issue, but we have to think about public safety. It's not political, it's about the person, and your trust in the boys in blue, and girls in blue.

5:42:41Our next speaker is Boris, followed by Wehart.

5:42:47Good evening, my name is Boris Krasnayarov. I'm Elsaida resident for 25 years, and by profession, I'm a data security engineer.

5:42:56A lot have been said here. Tara Hamid from EFF covered basically 90% of what I wanted to say. I just want to reiterate that, flow is more than

5:43:08What they say they are.

5:43:10And it's also important to notice that it's a tool which can be abused and not used properly. Just as kind of a data point.

5:43:21Richmond shares the data with single external agency, El Cerrito Police Department.

5:43:28El Cerrita Police Department shares its data with 319 external agencies. I'm sure police chiefs can't even name them all.

5:43:37He certainly didn't know that Richmond

5:43:40re-enabled fork, but with very limited use a week ago, right? Because it's impossible to track this stuff.

5:43:48Another important thing, which is… kind of bothers me quite a bit, is that, Richmond

5:43:56Has a penalty for flock of, $290,000 per face of Unauthorized data disclosure.

5:44:06For some reason, El Cerita values the same thing at $35,000.

5:44:11Auckland, which negotiated its way earlier, have $2,000… $200,000 per data disclosure… data breach with flow. Thank you for your comments.

5:44:22Our next speaker is Weehar, followed by John Stasic.

5:44:28Dear Councilmember, I'm both, identified as an immigrant as well as a member of the LGBT community.

5:44:36I think the question here is, not renewing, it's about… I appreciate both sides that it's… we care about safety.

5:44:46I think that without any surveillance and support, we're not able to decrease crime, and it's heartbreaking for me to see, immigrants' community losing businesses that they hard-earned.

5:45:00Shop owner being pushed over.

5:45:03It was so heartbreaking for me that, as… LGBT community being targeted.

5:45:09And I think that, it's time to pause and evaluate the system?

5:45:15I think we all hear about safety, we want you to do the right

5:45:20journey to get there. And thank you for your…

5:45:25Our next speaker is John Stashek, followed by Bill Barrish.

5:45:30John Sashek, El Cerrito.

5:45:32I had definitely encouraged the Council to renew this contract with Flock. Public safety's the number one job in this city, keeping the city safe.

5:45:43the stats that… the Chief of police showed up there.

5:45:48speak for themselves. Flock has, helped reduce crime in this city.

5:45:53And, I drive by flock… Cameras all the time.

5:45:58And I'm gonna tell you, Google

5:46:01Amazon, Apple, and everybody else in this place has far more… thousands…

5:46:09times more data on me than 40 flock cameras in this El Cerrito, so just, Renew the contract.

5:46:17Our next speaker is Bill Barrish, and then we'll go to our virtual request to speak.

5:46:21Bill Barrish already spoke.

5:46:24Not on this item, Mayor. Go ahead.

5:46:27I just came up to give you an update, and by the way, don't panic, the rumble you hear is not an earthquake, it's our collective stomachs.

5:46:35Oh, my apologies, Mr. Barrish, you did already speak on this item, so you have already utilized your time. Apologies. Unfortunately, no, you won't… Council policy only allows one time to speak per item.

5:46:53Go ahead and… Okay, one more in person, go ahead, we'll have Benjamin…

5:47:02Hi, thank you. I'm Benjamin Powell. I'm an El Cerrito resident.

5:47:06I really appreciate you extending the time for this meeting so that we all got a chance to speak. I was worried for a second we wouldn't

5:47:14get to that. There's been a lot of talk today about safety.

5:47:20Throughout the Trump presidency, I know that a lot of us have not felt safe. There have been a lot of moments where my stomach has dropped when they started pulling people out of their cars.

5:47:31When, they started to…

5:47:36in Kansas tell trans people such as myself to surrender their driver's license, and my stomach dropped again when I saw that map.

5:47:46that Chief Keith put up there.

5:47:49Of all of the cameras that surround us, I do not feel safe when I am surrounded by cameras, when I am being watched. I am afraid.

5:47:59when I'm a therapist, and when people are being watched, they take in

5:48:06the person who's watching them. They internalize it, and they become the watcher.

5:48:10And it's terrifying, and… I'm being long-winded, but… I just…

5:48:18A lot of people have been asking me, what can we possibly do?

5:48:22And this is something that we can do. It is not going to solve.

5:48:25the Trump regime.

5:48:28But it is gonna do something, and we need to do something.

5:48:31Thank you.

5:48:32Please don't vote for Block.

5:48:36Okay, and we have one final speaker in person, Denise Sangster, and then we will go to our virtual requests.

5:48:46Thank you, and good morning. Thank you for staying. I'm in favor of the Flock contract. I think if you're concerned about it, then I would encourage you not to use any Microsoft products. Don't use a phone.

5:49:01don't have a car with GPS, they know a lot more about you than Flock will ever know about you.

5:49:06Flock does have some bruises on them.

5:49:10But they haven't directly cut off customers, as Microsoft has done. They haven't sold their data to lots of different companies, as the GPS manufacturers and cars are doing. So they aren't monetizing the way that these other companies are, so…

5:49:26I think it's a great asset to our… to our city. We've had a burglary in my neighborhood on Friday morning that was frightening at 3.15 with family, home, and children.

5:49:37And being able to have a flock camera nearby that can potentially help is something that we want, and I would like to see it renewed, and I know my neighbors want the same thing, so thank you.

5:49:50Okay, we'll go to our virtual requests. We'll start with Laura Hill. Laura, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

5:49:58Laura Hill: Good evening, my name is Laura, and I'm a VP of Public Policy for the Bay Area Council. We are a business association and policy advocacy organization representing nearly 400 of the region's largest employers. In 2023, at the request of more than 125 employers based in the East Bay, our organization formed a coalition that is committed to building a safer and more vibrant region.

5:50:24The Bay Area Council and this coalition strongly supports this item and the continued use of flock technology in El Cerrito.

5:50:32On the ground every day, ALPR technology is a proven tool for recovering stolen property, identifying suspects in violent crimes, and supporting investigations.

5:50:42It helps officers respond to crime more effectively, connect cases, and provide stronger evidence to prosecutors, ultimately allowing agencies to operate more efficiently and improve community safety.

5:50:54We've also seen across the East Bay and the broader region that this technology can be implemented with appropriate safeguards that balance community privacy with public safety.

5:51:04And importantly, since many nearby cities are already using this technology, using compatible tools strengthens coordination and safety across jurisdictions. Thank you for your consideration and for your continued leadership in El Cerrito.

5:51:20Our next speaker is Lisa Johnson. Lisa, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

5:51:26Leisa Johnson: Good evening, Mayor and Council Members.

5:51:28You have a difficult task tonight. You've heard from a broad…

5:51:33group of people. They all have legitimate concerns.

5:51:38But everybody has a right to public safety.

5:51:42Everybody.

5:51:44And the number one thing your communities ask for is public safety. It's defined in a variety of ways.

5:51:50Those cameras, you shut them off, you are going to be isolated.

5:51:55And crime does not know boundaries.

5:51:58It travels. Richmond signed their contract again today, effective. Their cameras will go back on.

5:52:06El Cerrito shuts them off.

5:52:08You guys will be that black spot.

5:52:11And the criminals know where to go.

5:52:13Every time you cross a bridge.

5:52:16Every time you drive down San Pablo Avenue to go shopping, to do whatever.

5:52:21you will be tracked whether or not El Serio's cameras are off.

5:52:26And those victims, they have a voice.

5:52:30My dear friend's daughter was kidnapped.

5:52:34from a park, And she had unspeakable things done to her.

5:52:41Had she had those cameras at that point in time, things may have been different. Seconds matter, minutes matter.

5:52:51And those cameras can make a very big life and death decision.

5:52:55Thank you for your time.

5:52:58Our next speaker is Eduardo. Eduardo, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

5:53:07However, we cannot hear you.

5:53:10Eduardo: El Cerrito is sitting on a perfect storm. Two major freeways and a BART station that give criminals fast access in and fast escape out. And if we follow the DeFlocker's logic, then let's be consistent. Remove the freeways. Shut down BART.

5:53:28That's how disconnected this debate becomes when ideology replaces reality.

5:53:34We know what happens when cities turn off flaw cameras. When Richmond paused theirs for a few months, auto thefts jump by about a third. That's not speculation. That's documented impact. And the people who suffer most?

5:53:48are ones with the least margin for loss. Most working-class black and brown families in the East Bay are single-car households.

5:53:56When that one car is stolen, it's not just transportation, it's the ability to work, to pay rent, to keep kids in school. A stolen car becomes a stolen life.

5:54:07Ideology is a luxury for the privileged.

5:54:10Survival is a daily reality for Black and Brown communities that are most damaged by crime.

5:54:15Even worse, some are pushing false narratives to remove public safety tools by claiming the undocumented need protection from cameras, despite zero evidence of any deportations in El Cerrito tied to flock. And that's none.

5:54:31Privileged folks. Stop the scapegoating of the plight of the undocumented. It really hurts all Latino communities.

5:54:39And while families and businesses struggle, attorney Brian Hoffer of Secure Judgments, or I mean, justice.

5:54:47Our next speaker is a phone number ending 568.

5:54:52You can dial star 6 and begin your time now.

5:54:58Hi, my name is Eric Dragos, El Cerrito resident. I'm personally and, I'm familiar, personally, with unsolved violent crime in the city, as well as neighboring cities. I've had friends' houses broken into, never solved. I'm familiar with, close-by murder, never solved, but I don't care if you have 100% crime deterrence and case clearance rate. I do not want these cameras in my city.

5:55:21This trade-off is not worth it, period. Innocent people are being tracked wherever they go, and that is not morally, ethically, or constitutionally acceptable. My dad is a refugee from an authoritarian country that also had mass surveillance installed in the guise of public safety.

5:55:35Whatever good intentions are met by the system, any bad actor, now or in the future, can use it for evil. Even now, mistakes will happen. As a dual national citizen, I feel I'm even more at risk, with the rise of xenophobia in our country. This system could lead to false arrest or accusations.

5:55:52We could reduce crime even further by putting security cameras in your house, but that obviously wouldn't happen. There is a limit somewhere. These cameras cross the limit. Please vote no to renew the contract. Thank you.

5:56:04Thank you. Sorry, our building automatically turns on our alarm at midnight, so we're trying to get it before it goes off.

5:56:13Okay, I think we're okay. Okay, thank you. Okay, our next request to speak is Austin. Austin, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

5:56:24Austin: There's been a lot of talk about public safety tonight, so let's set the record straight.

5:56:29Those who are here tonight speaking out against Flock are speaking out in favor of public safety.

5:56:35Public safety is not AI mass surveillance.

5:56:38It's not pilfering the public coffers to reward investors in a company tied to Peter Till in an administration targeting the most vulnerable.

5:56:47And to address the Chief's comments about cell phones, you have it dead wrong.

5:56:51I can turn my phone off or leave it at home. I can control the apps and privacy settings.

5:56:56I can't opt out of being tracked by Flock.

5:57:00Choose safety over surveillance, cancel the contract.

5:57:06Our next speaker is Stuart Sonartina. Stuart, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

5:57:13Stuart Sonatina: Good evening.

5:57:14at the Cinco de Mayo.

5:57:16I just wanted to, throw my, comment in here about also being against flock. I,

5:57:23The point is not that, surveilling the public doesn't decrease crime, it's…

5:57:28The point that this system is set up in an insecure way.

5:57:32the,

5:57:34The database can be accessed by bad actors, and they can use that data to track innocent citizens.

5:57:41And we want this system deactivated not because we like robbery or vehicular murder.

5:57:48We want it deactivated to prevent misuse.

5:57:51if, if Flock is serious about crime prevention, then perhaps they could become an open source nonprofit, and we could…

5:58:01you know.

5:58:02See what they're doing, and… and work with them.

5:58:06But a for-profit startup that's just figuring out how to do this for the first time during a very dangerous presidency is not who we should be trusting to run this experiment. Thank you.

5:58:20Our next speaker is Rock… Rocky Chow. Rocky, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

5:58:27Rocky Chau (he/him): Hi, hi, my name is Rocky, and I am speaking, in fair… in, to…

5:58:35implore the City Council to vote against, renewing the contract with Flock.

5:58:42The reason why is because I understand that public safety is important, but also privacy is, and the trade-off of privacy far outweighs the safety, of flock.

5:58:56Crime is going down in El Cerrito, and also, El Cerrito has a budget deficit. Whatever the city has been doing has been working very well, so…

5:59:06To throw $2 million when they're…

5:59:09When there are other needs that could be met is just, it's just ridiculous, and the police department doesn't need every bell and whistle.

5:59:19Other methods for decreasing crime are better and cheaper, and life are, like.

5:59:25like, building better communities, providing life-affirming services. I, on my end, feel more safe when I am in community with my neighbors versus having a camera, which, ironically enough, don't make me feel safe. It just makes me feel watched.

5:59:42And, additionally, the flock cameras put the city at risk of lawsuits that could cost the city millions. So, again, I implore you to vote against renewing the contract.

5:59:59And our next speaker is Jacqueline LaSonne. Jacqueline, you should be able to unmute and begin your time now.

6:00:06Jacqueline Lasahn/AstroSpirit: Thank you.

6:00:08Aclu NorCal urges the Council to not only oppose the renewal of the flock contract specifically.

6:00:16but to reframe altogether from contracting with any company to deploy automatic license plate reader cameras in El Cerrito. These networks make our community less

6:00:28Not more safe because they violate privacy, increase the risk of dangerous police encounters, and risk exposing our immigrant community members to harm

6:00:42They do not meaningfully improve public safety, but they have triggered unjustified stops of law-abiding people repeatedly throughout Northern California and elsewhere.

6:00:55In San Francisco, police blind reliance on an ALPR scan led to the wrongful detention of a black woman at gunpoint, triggering a multi-year civil rights lawsuit.

6:01:09Two brothers returning from Thanksgiving from family with family were pulled from their rental car on I-80 after cameras wrongly flagged it as stolen.

6:01:21More recently, police in Walnut Creek wrongfully detained the director of a nonprofit at gunpoint after another license plate reader system error. It goes on and on. Please. No flock cameras. Thank you.

6:01:40Mayor, that concludes our request to speak on this item.

6:01:44I want to thank everybody for speaking. Very much appreciate that, and we're going to bring this back here to the Council, and

6:01:53Let's go to my left here. Any,

6:02:04I had a list of questions, I'm gonna…

6:02:06Keep them very, very short, out of respect to everyone's time.

6:02:10I have a question for the flock representative.

6:02:19Paragraph 4.3 of the agreement.

6:02:24The contract, proposed contract, says that

6:02:27Flock will be allowed to share its data as required by law, court order, and warrant.

6:02:31And I gather there's quite a bit of evidence that it's actually done that.

6:02:34Again, legal… by legal.

6:02:37requirements. The question is, has Flock ever responded to

6:02:41a FISA court for Intelligence Surveillance Act court warrant, to your knowledge.

6:02:46And regardless of whether they did it or didn't, is it your interpretation of paragraph 4.3?

6:02:52That it would allow Flock to respond to such a warrant.

6:02:55Sure, the answer is no, we have not. We've never received such a warrant request under FISA. Happy to put that on the record. Having said that, if we were to receive it, as I said earlier in my remarks, the initial reaction would be to push back and redirect to the city.

6:03:10If the warrant continued and the federal government disagreed, we would ask the city to, if it was a legal process.

6:03:20So, my understanding is that if you received such a warrant, you would not be able to notify the city that you had it. It depends on the type of warrant. You'd have to get a specific gag order on the warrant. So, if it's a request for data.

6:03:32That's not necessarily true. You'd have to have a judge sign off and say, essentially, please don't tell the responding… or the, the data owner of the city in this… If that happened, what else would you ever know?

6:03:44It would not, no, not if it would suffice a warrant. We would abide by a federal mandate, whatever that would be.

6:03:52Ask one more question, maybe at that. Paragraph 7.2 in the proposed contract describes ways

6:04:00The contract can be terminated.

6:04:02Basically, only allowed if there's a fin… if there are financial issues, or if one of the parties breaks the law.

6:04:09If Flock violates the contract by disclosing information to federal agencies.

6:04:15It sounds like that would not be grounds for terminating the contract. Is that your interpretation as well? It is not my interpretation, but I want to be clear here, I am not part of our legal department. Having said that, that is not my interpretation of the contract. If we violated that, i.e. disclosing data under a FISA request, that would be grounds for termination.

6:04:33Okay.

6:04:35Alright, well, thank you.

6:04:38Yes, I had a number of questions, but quite a number of them were covered.

6:04:44In the presentations, but I did want to ask… there was a question asked by this gentleman up here in the front that he said he wanted to ask you. I don't remember what the question was, but I saw you nod your head, and I assume that you remember what the question was. So, can you answer that question?

6:05:02I know that is a trap for all of us, but he asked a question, and I knew you had the answer, so I would like to hear that answer. Oh, I actually… I do remember your question. Are our audit records immutable? And they are, and I'm happy to provide the counsel

6:05:18And if you want to provide me your email with the technical documentation as to how they are.

6:05:22Okay, and then I had a question for Chief, and I don't know if this is something that can be addressed, considering the fact that we need to address this tonight, but I was interested in the fact that, yes, Richmond has a different amount for their penalty

6:05:36than El Cerrito has. Do you… what was the reason for the difference in the penalty? They think they have a much higher penalty than us.

6:05:43They also have a much higher contract than us, so I believe that, to some level, it's based on overall value of the contract. Okay, that was my only question, thank you. I will just supplement that by saying.

6:05:55We negotiated as hard as we could for provisions, including the penalty amount. This is what we were able to get Flock to agree to. Of course, we tried to get it to be higher, but this is where we've ended up within the time available to bring this to Council.

6:06:09Thank you, and I actually did have one other question for you, Chief, because I know at the last meeting, I asked about other

6:06:15vendors, because what I'm hearing is that I'm… and I'm not… not everyone, but you do have some folks who are like myself, that I'm… I have more of an issue with Flock themselves, because of what has gone on with the breaches. Was there an attempt to find out information about other, vendors, or how did that go?

6:06:34realistically, we'll need more time for that. Okay. So it'll… it'll have to be a process. All right, thank you, I'm complete. Okay, thank you. I have, some emails that I would like to read out, from,

6:06:49A couple of our small business owners.

6:06:53One is from,

6:06:56Daniel Pride, who is the owner of the Pastime Hard Door Store in El Cerrito.

6:07:01He's saying, I'm writing to you to voice our vociferous support of the El Cerrita Police Department Flock Camera Program. As a long-standing member of El Cerrito's business community, we want the city to continue their contract with Flock.

6:07:16We, as members of El Cerrito, need to support the police department and give them all the necessary tools to help them protect our citizens and to give them the important, information to help solve crimes. The cameras do just that. They are proactive crime deterrent.

6:07:33while also giving our officers a real-time

6:07:38Alert to activity in our city.

6:07:41It has shown that

6:07:43It has shown that cameras like clock reduce crime while also producing… providing a sense of security to all members of El Cerrito. The city's rationale that the cameras are an invasion

6:07:57of, privacy really holds no water. The cell phones in everyone's pockets include every city of,

6:08:05Sorry, it's late.

6:08:07The cell phones on everyone's pockets include every city official who are more invasive to personal privacy than block cameras will ever be, but we hope

6:08:18But you don't see the city officials wanting to ban cell phones. We at Pastime Hardware implore the City of El Cerrito to renew the flock contract and continue to keep citizens of your and of our city safe and secure. And that is from Daniel Pride.

6:08:35We also have our number one tax,

6:08:41One of our largest businesses, and this is El Cerrito Honda. I'm writing on behalf of El Cerrito Honda, a long-time supporter of El Cerrito residents, to voice our strong support.

6:08:53For the renewal of the City's block safety camera program, I respectfully ask that this letter be entered in the public record and be shared with the Mayor and City Council ahead of any vote on this matter. As a business that operates daily on San Pablo Avenue.

6:09:10We see firsthand how public safety conditions affect

6:09:15Our employees, our customers, and the broader business community

6:09:19that funds a substantial portion of the city's general fund. Auto theft, catalytic converter theft, vehicle break-ins, and organized retail crime are not abstract issues for us. They are real costs we absorb.

6:09:34in insurance premiums, security investments, and lost productivity. They also directly affect whether customers feel safe

6:09:42coming to El Cerrito to shop, dine, and do business here, rather than neighboring cities. The Flock Automated License Plate Recognition Program has been a meaningful tool in helping ECPD respond to and solve these crimes. The visible presence of cameras serves as a deterrent

6:10:01at the I-80 entry and exit points, and along our commercial corridor. And investigative leads, they generate help.

6:10:09Officers recover stolen vehicles, identify suspects, and respond to amber and silver alerts faster than would be otherwise possible.

6:10:19In our city and neighborhood cities, the same technology has contributed to arrests of violent crime cases through the recovery of stolen property that would otherwise be lost.

6:10:31I understand and respect the concerns some residents have raised about privacy and data use. These concerns deserve thoughtful answers, and the existing program already addresses many of them, through limited retention windows, restricted access, and audit lodging.

6:10:49If additional safeguards would strengthen community trust, we support refining the policy.

6:10:57But ending the program entirely would be a step backwards for public safety and the business climate that supports El Cerrito's tax base.

6:11:07El Cerrito Honda is proud to be a partner of the city. We employ local residents, we contribute significantly to our sales tax revenue that funds public services, and we have a direct interest to keeping our community safe and thriving.

6:11:24And that is, from El Cerrito Honda. I have another one here from, Nug.

6:11:30And another one from STIZY.

6:11:33They're writing in, this… in regard to the El Cerrita Police continued use of flock, license plate reader system. We greatly appreciate the El Cerrita PD's use of Flock, and we are a cash-heavy business that has been broken into previously.

6:11:50Used appropriately, I believe the flock can be a great tool for our community, so on behalf of Dizzy El Cerrito, a staple of this community, I'm voicing my support.

6:12:00Of… or the team.

6:12:02And then, NUG, I am writing to express NUG's full support, strong support for the renewal and expansion for the city contract for flock safety. As a retail business in El Cerrito, I am encouraged by the

6:12:15City Council's upcoming discussion regarding these safety measures. The data from El Cerrito and neighboring cities highlights the undeniable impact

6:12:25Of license plate readers. In an era where criminal activity is increasingly mobile, providing our cities with real-time, objective leads, and essential for keeping our businesses and neighborhoods safe.

6:12:38I want to commend the department's proactive stance on privacy and data security. Seeing that, the department regularly audits the camera network and that Flock Safety has implemented new safeguards

6:12:52to prevent unauthorized federal access gives me great confidence in the program, and that is signed by the CEO, John

6:13:01Orem.

6:13:02So,

6:13:04And I have, one more here, and this is from, the El Cerrito Police Employees Association. That's a police union.

6:13:12On behalf of the ECPEA, we express strong support for your adoption of the resolution authorizing the continued use of flock.

6:13:22The ECPEA membership has advocated for this technology since its inception.

6:13:28And as it significantly enhances the safety for police officers.

6:13:33And the communities they serve by providing timely, actionable information to help private, prevent and solve crimes.

6:13:41Since the implementation of FLOC, officers have been routinely recovering vehicles that were stolen or used in crimes, developing investigative leads in cases that may otherwise remain unsolved.

6:13:55As the police administrators have highlighted on prior occasions.

6:14:00The flock safety system has been instrumental in rapidly resolving incidents and providing critical evidence in some of our most violent criminal cases that have affected our community in recent years.

6:14:15So,

6:14:17An advance notice of what provides our officers allow them to approach precarious situations with greater awareness for potential safety risks.

6:14:27With this information, our officers plan coordinated responses to these incidents and utilize alternative resources and de-escalation tactics when feasible.

6:14:39We respectfully urge your support for the continued use of this system as part of a comprehensive, modern approach to public safety in El Cerrito. And these are some of our top

6:14:50businesses in El Cerrito. So I wanted,

6:14:55residents who know what our businesses have, dealt with and have endured through the years, especially during this difficult time of COVID, and with the rising rates of crime. I wish

6:15:11I doubt. I wished…

6:15:14I'd like to make a motion that we extend the meeting to 1245. Ike, would you accept an amendment to do it till 1? I mean, two of us haven't even spoken yet, and I don't know when we're about to get a chance to. I was trying to be you for this time. One is fine. I'll second that. Okay, all in favor?

6:15:33And apologies, who was the second person?

6:15:36Thank you. For 1 o'clock.

6:15:40Okay.

6:15:41So, listening to that, I'm reminded of a neighbor that was killed at his restaurant. It was a restaurant in the Mira Vista area of Richmond. He lived on Bono Avenue, down the street from me. He was killed.

6:16:00By, someone who held up the restaurant.

6:16:05And that ruined his family. when I first moved back to El Cerrito,

6:16:12There was a killing at the Red Onion restaurant.

6:16:16And this was a place that my parents would take me, when I was growing up. And, if we had those cameras.

6:16:25the perpetrators would have been arrested. So, you know, pros and cons of everything, and I'll let you speak now. Mayor Pro Tem.

6:16:34Thank you. First, thank you so much to everyone who commented today and sat through this very long meeting, the longest since I've been here, I don't… maybe the longest ever. And to everyone who emailed comments, though they weren't all read tonight. I know I read all of them. I have not had the opportunity to respond to all of them, but I appreciate everybody, no matter your opinion.

6:16:57There are a lot of strong feelings on this, and I really appreciate you all taking the time.

6:17:02I've been considering this decision very carefully for the past several weeks.

6:17:06I completely understand that Flock has helped the police department solve crime, and I understand the deep community concern about how Flock

6:17:15about… How flock data could be used against our resident.

6:17:21But the decision has actually become easier in the past few days. It became easier tonight, because going into this meeting, I thought in the agenda packet said that the recommendation was to approve the new contract.

6:17:35which we were presented a couple weeks ago, and I really appreciate the chief and the department negotiating for months with Flock to try to get a better contract with some better safeguards. And I know you had that intent, and we're trying to do that. So it's very surprising to then, tonight.

6:17:54say, oh, actually, we're… we want to go back to the old contract, and that suggests to me that Flock was not negotiating in good faith, that now you're thinking from talking to other departments, maybe this is not as good as the thing we had before. And so that makes me feel really bad about going into a year or three-year contract with a company that I just… it doesn't seem like has been

6:18:19negotiating in good faith. And again, I'm not blaming the department. I think you've been doing everything you can

6:18:24But I'm more concerned tonight than I was this morning.

6:18:28And then the budget impacts, which are real. I know in the scheme of things, this isn't a huge cost to El Cerrito, but we're talking about the little costs, we're talking about saving $1,000 here and saving $10,000 here, and this is a big cost over time, over 3 years, and so that is a big concern for me.

6:18:48I do want to flag, if we… if this was earlier, I would have asked a lot more detailed questions about this, but I do want to just flag that the other big change since 2022, besides Flock.

6:19:00As the chief said earlier, the police department is finally fully staffed, and in 2022, it was not. There were a lot of vacancies, and in the years before that. So it's hard for me to decouple, and I don't think any of us know

6:19:13Is that the impact? Is it just the general crime decrease all over the Bay Area and the country? We just don't have the right data. It's very hard to make a comparison here.

6:19:25But ultimately, my biggest concern is that the federal government could access the data. The law's been changing constantly, we're losing more rights nearly every week.

6:19:34Trump and the Supreme Court could change the law and compel Flock to turn over the data tomorrow, and nothing in either contract protects El Cerrito from that, and I don't know that there's anything that could, honestly, the more and more I think about it.

6:19:48Even the state of California, which we keep being told we're protected under the state of California's laws, but they're being compelled right now to turn over, driver's license data of undocumented immigrants to the federal government.

6:20:04That is happening right now. So, if the state of California can't even protect itself, how could it protect us and our residents? So, it's a very unfortunate situation we're in. I wish we could do more to change the federal situation, but as many people said, we can only do what we can do here locally.

6:20:24I do want to note for the public, because multiple people have said we should focus more on prevention and other things.

6:20:30Well, if you had been here since 5pm at our meeting right before us, this, which I think a couple of you were, we unanimously voted to renew our contract with the Contra Costa CORE program for outreach services to folks who are unhoused, and we also voted on an additional $25,000 contribution to the Housing Services Fund to prevent people from becoming unhoused.

6:20:54So we are working on the prevention side. I think in El Cerrito, and this is true with the police department too, we're looking at this from a lot of different sides. It's not just, like, solve everything with surveillance, no matter what the vote here is tonight.

6:21:08we're looking at a lot of things. So, probably pretty clear from what I said, but I'm gonna be voting no on any extension of the flock contract.

6:21:20I also want to say, you guys have really shown that you care, because you're still sitting here at 12.25 PM, so I think that is, you know, great. Oh, sorry, AM! Thank you, thank you. Am, and, you know.

6:21:38This is great, this is Democracy in Action.

6:21:43I have absolute confidence in our chief.

6:21:47Chief Key, and our ECPD, because he oversees that, and we know who these people are.

6:21:54However, The problem that I have with flock

6:22:00Is that they have shown, through multiple experiences, that they don't fix something until something goes wrong.

6:22:09Also, you know, I did ask the flock person about, you know, where do you make your money? Is it the camera or the data? And they said, oh yeah, it's the camera system. But really, when you dig down, it's about this massive system.

6:22:24that will eventually, police all of us in lots of different ways, and our data will be part of this, like, collective data over all of us. So, that is my concern. I think we need to help our local businesses be safe.

6:22:43And I think if the Chief could come back with some solutions for that, we, you know.

6:22:50I know this is a budget issue, but that's $100,000 that we can go back and forth on, and is there nothing that we can do with that money that is not flock to protect our local businesses and our residents? So, I think that there's a lot of,

6:23:07Things that we could do, this is the other alternatives as developed by Council that, Chief put up.

6:23:13possible council actions. So, I think there's just a lot of different things that we could do, and I would like to know what they are.

6:23:21I think the, you know, could we get cameras that do license plate reading, but only have the data for us? That's not connected to some cloud collection of data going out into the world? So that's, you know, is that possible?

6:23:37We don't know. So… That is my…

6:23:41feeling, I think you guys tell where I'm going with this, but you know.

6:23:46I am not comfortable with flock.

6:23:49I'm not comfortable,

6:23:52Where… with the company that, even in 2026, was sued by the… our Attorney General.

6:23:59For a breach. That they release data through a city El Cajon.

6:24:06to give that information somehow to ICE.

6:24:11So…

6:24:13They're not supposed to do this. This is a law in California, yet this continues to happen. So, I don't think that, you know, when…

6:24:22our data is safe this way. And, you know.

6:24:25We can't control it once it leaves. For once it goes to the cloud that belongs to flock.

6:24:32We don't have the control over it that we think we do.

6:24:35So…

6:24:36That is my, you know, I don't think we should do this contract. I cannot trust Flock. I trust the police.

6:24:43I trust our community.

6:24:45I do not trust Flock.

6:24:53Say a couple things.

6:24:56It's late.

6:24:56I wanna, speak on my opinion on,

6:25:02On a couple things that have been…

6:25:06that I've been thinking about throughout this evening. And as a mayor, and as someone who represents all residents of El Cerrito, and represents all parties, political parties, you know, we're talking about,

6:25:24Something that will, help.

6:25:27in deterring crime. And I'm looking at

6:25:32a woman sitting in the front row, coming in from, Oakland who lost her son.

6:25:40And remember, we need to think… also think about the victims of crime. And the victims of crime here in El Cerrito, has been, for the most part, Asian Americans. Asian Americans have been

6:25:57get killed in the Bay Area and throughout this country.

6:26:01and Latinos as well, as well as African Americans. So it is communities of color that are the victims of crime here. When I think about so many of our small businesses who have put their heart and soul and savings in opening up a small business here.

6:26:20And they have to go through with, you know, organized crime, that is not acceptable.

6:26:27We have people that are moving here to El Cerrito from our large cities because they have been victims of crime, and they know that El Cerrito is a safe city, and we do what it takes to keep our city safe.

6:26:43And these are homeowners from Oakland and San Francisco who have had enough

6:26:48of being victims of crime, whether it's their small businesses, or their home, or their cars, or themselves. I had a friend who was held up in gunpoint, in another board that I belonged to. You know, this is not acceptable.

6:27:05What I think about the seniors, Asian seniors who have been killed, in San Francisco and other cities, I think about the victims of crime always. I have been threatened in a BART train

6:27:20By a group of people, and I will always remember that.

6:27:25I was with Janet Abelson one day, and this is another incident in San Francisco, where, she was a victim of a crime when she was, in her wheelchair and walking from the green room on Van Ness to the,

6:27:44Civic Center BART station. Another BART director was with her, and these group of thugs tried to steal, what they had. That is not acceptable.

6:27:57I do not want this to happen to our residents and our small businesses. They put their heart and soul and their lives, to open these businesses, to set down roots here.

6:28:11And call El Cerrito home. And this is why they move here, is because of public safety.

6:28:17We have always… we have always been on the top when it comes to, property crimes, but we have taken care of that as well. And you see all crimes.

6:28:28throughout the state of California is lower, because the majority of cities in California, more than 70%, have invested in license plate readers. So.

6:28:39you know, I scan.

6:28:41by, as a mayor, you know, we need to just do the right thing and stay away from politics. And I have always done that,

6:28:52I don't think this is funny. Think about the people, my neighbor who was killed. So how dare you laugh about that? This is not a laughing matter. This is about life and death.

6:29:04Thank you, thank you. But this is not a funny situation, this is a serious thing, and I thank everyone for being here. I'm going to stand by my police chief and the police department.

6:29:16and the businesses that call El Cerrito home, and we could have lost our Honda dealership. They have gone through a lot.

6:29:25And, we had a car break in, crash into the NUG outlet.

6:29:31And stole everything. That is not acceptable. If we had the cameras at that time, he would have been caught.

6:29:37So, this is something that Brown and Black communities have gone through. We are the victims of crime.

6:29:45More than most people, more than the Caucasian community, and that is the truth. So, you know, I wanted to let you know where I stand as a member of the LGBT community. I have board members and good friends

6:30:00That are trans. Lisa Middleton is a dear friend of mine, and and we support the trans community, but

6:30:10They also believe in public safety. And, my board member, who is a Jeopardy champion, who was held up point-blank with a gun in downtown Oakland, you know, you remember these things. And once you're a victim of crime, you will always remember what it was like

6:30:28To be threatened like that, and to have to your life.

6:30:32Your life could have been gone.

6:30:34So, my views have changed.

6:30:37And, I support what we were doing here in El Cerrito. I'm not going to change that, so I am voting in, renewing the existing agreement. And if I could just make one last comment, I'm sorry, we've been here so late. I was asking questions and didn't recall that this was

6:30:54Last time to make a comment, this has been a very conflicting issue for me because I agree with Councilmember Motayama.

6:31:02My issue is not the cameras, or the concept of having cameras, my issue is flock themselves. And I understand that some people may feel differently, they have issues with cameras as a whole. That's fine, we are on different parts of the spectrum.

6:31:17I too, Councilmember, I'm sorry, Mayor Pro Tem Salzman, thought that we were still negotiating with FLOC for more… more security, more guardrails that are for a different type of contract. And that has also been my issue with FLOC as well, as far as not

6:31:33negotiating in good faith. I do… I am hardened by the fact that so many people have so much faith in our El Cerrito PD, because historically that has not been the case, so cheap, you should take heart in that, because my family has been here since the 40s, and they have not had good experiences with El Cerrito PD.

6:31:49PD. Having said that, I know that I come to this with a different type of lived experience than a lot of folks. I have not only just been in the

6:31:57the victim of violent crime. I grew up with killers, I grew up with drug dealers, I've been to the trap house a number of times.

6:32:04I know what happened. I shouldn't have said that on mic, but anyway.

6:32:09I know what happens when Richmond has cameras, and Albany may or may not have cameras, and Oakland has cameras, and El Cerrito does not.

6:32:18Because that's the way that these type of things work when you're in the trap house. That's the decision that's made. Well, where do you go? You go to where there are no cameras.

6:32:26I've had cousins killed right on the Richmond El Cerrito line. I actually have a cousin who walks free right now because of flock cameras, because he had a murder charge, and the cameras prove that he did not… there was no way that he could have done what he did. But at the same time.

6:32:42Flock themselves have done us a grave disservice. I wish we had… I had a conversation with a lovely, anti-Floc person, and I said, I wish we had enough time to continue pushing back on this, and to actually put them in the hard position to do better with them by our contract.

6:32:59Having said that, and I always quote former Mayor London Breed, and I say former for a reason, because her quote was, I'm not gonna… I'm not gonna debate about doing my job, I'm not gonna be scared about doing my job while doing my job. And of course, she no longer has that job. So sometimes you have to make those hard decisions. But for me, as somebody, again, who's lived right here on the border of Richmond El Cerrito.

6:33:22just about all my life. I'm 47, I've been here since I was 7 years old. You know, I've had friends who've had shotguns pointed at their heads, and the assailants fled towards El Cerrito. When my cousin was murdered right there on the Richmond El Cerrito line, the person who killed him fled towards El Cerrito. I personally wish that we had time to say, let's talk about this more, but I cannot, in good conscience, let those cameras in our surrounding cities go off.

6:33:46and at least not say we need to continue to talk about this and also still have a way to track folks. So, I know that this is not going to make people happy. I said that I was going to stand behind fellow African American Council members across our region, and I, even in a losing vote, will not be support… or will be supporting the cameras tonight, because I think that we need to… I would love to have had other alternatives as developed by the council.

6:34:10And had more of a runway.

6:34:12But since we do not have that, that's gonna be my vote on tonight.

6:34:16I'll take the bullets, that's fine, I'm okay with that. You know, you win some, you lose some. November is coming, do what you gotta do.

6:34:25I'm complete.

6:34:31No other comments. Okay.

6:34:35Would anyone like to make a motion?

6:34:40I would like to move to, Not renew the contract.

6:34:48I will second that.

6:34:53Okay.

6:34:54All in favor? To not… Support.

6:34:59Aye. Aye. Aye.

6:35:02Yeah, three eyes.

6:35:04Dunny news.

6:35:06Nay. Nay.

6:35:072.

6:35:10Motion carries.

6:35:11Okay.

6:35:12Thank you very much for being.

6:35:22We're not done yet. We're not quite adjourned. We're not adjourned. Okay.

6:35:29For any city council local and regional liaison support?

6:35:38Okay, we are going to adjourn this meeting at… Mice off, too.

6:35:43No, it's not, you just came here. 1242 a.m. Thank you for being there. The next City Council meeting is May 19th.

6:35:522026 at 6 p.m.

6:35:55Have a good night.