City Council Meeting October 15, 2013

0:00:06can you hear me good evening everyone uh this is the regularly regular scheduled meeting of El Cerrito for Tuesday October 15th um let the record show that all five council members are present and we will start with item one pledge of allegiance to the flag or an

0:00:28observation of a moment of silence led by mayor Pro tem Abelson I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all right that brings us to item two uh

0:00:54Council and staff Communications I'm seeing no staff Communications Council uh Mr Friedman any Communications uh yeah I was attended the recycle more meeting where there was a vote on the post-collection agreement with Republic Services and that was approved unanimously there was some a lot of give

0:01:21and take on other issues that were not resolved but we'll be coming back to the body in the future I serve as the alternate for the mayor so probably you'll get to experience the next Flow by blow in that and I thank you for attending on my behalf anytime mayor

0:01:42council member thank you just one item I'll mention and offer all of our congratulations to one of our distinguished residents Dr Randy sheckman of UC Berkeley who was awarded the Nobel Prize or shared the Nobel Prize in medicine in for 2013. for his work revealing the Machinery that

0:02:00regulates the transport and secretion of proteins so great congratulations to him council member uh sorry councilmember Abelson uh the only thing I'd like to mention is that I attended a meeting of the El Cerrito Historical Society where that was really interesting it was on El

0:02:17Cerrito Plaza the old Plaza and they had a number of um Merchants who were there in earlier days and they shared their reminiscence this is about that so it was really interesting and fun there was a huge audience for it from people who loved the plaza and um so it was really

0:02:37interesting we had somebody who was in charge of the old campus Emporium store for example and turns out he's one of our Earth Day volunteers so I didn't realize that that was one and the same person so that was kind of fun and as well as Bob bacon from Betty's

0:02:58and Bonnie and Foley's was represented and I believe one other store it's very interesting fantastic nothing um I I have one item that is coming up it's uh at our community center on Halloween Eve for families with small children and and young children please come to the

0:03:22community center or look up on the community center there's several things that going on one is trick-or-treating from the back of cars so that they're not out in the streets they're just walking in the parking lot from one parked car to another and the cars get decorated so it's nice

0:03:40to come out and see the car decorations as well as all the youth that are decorated additionally there's two haunted houses they're actually in the same space one is age-appropriate for younger children and the other is more scary for older children so please check

0:03:59our website and that is on the 31st that is on Thursday the 31st of October Halloween there's also a dog parade that's Rita Vista Park on the same day correct same day yeah pets that are that are uh in costume I believe there's also a pet costume contest at Petco there is that's uh the

0:04:22Saturday beforehand and and I will be there judging the costumes one of the benefits of being mayor it is all right um with that we will move on to item three oral Communications from the public this is a time that we allow for the public to speak on any topic that is

0:04:42not on the agenda or on a consent calendar item we allow three minutes per per speaker we do have a light system in front that will help us remind you um when your time is ending green go yellow for one minute left and red I will assist you in wrapping up your uh

0:05:03your comments do we have any speaker uh speaker cards yes mayor we have three speakers Nicholas arzio good evening hi I'm Nicholas arzio I came to request the council to pass a resolution prohibiting parking on San Pablo Avenue during Monday evening street sweeping

0:05:29great is that on both sides or is that on one side I noticed in particular the East Side between Fairmount and Central was supposed to have been swept last night but this morning there was still a lot of debris in the gutter great thank you for your your comments

0:05:44you're welcome can I comment on that I I cleaned up that stretch on Earth Day so it really does need it and it's about 1500 cigarette butts among other debris yeah good suggestion and uh next speaker please Sherry drogner hi good evening um I'm here tonight representing some

0:06:11neighbors who live on Rockaway Avenue including myself [address removed] and um several weeks ago we overheard some members from the West uh Contra Costa County School Board um School District in our yards adjacent to our homes and they were talking about the last phase of the stadium project

0:06:33and according to the phase we found out there's going to be some extensive demolition going on and it's going to have a very huge impact on the whole Southern border of the stadium and although we understand that the district um it's a school district project and

0:06:51not a city project we're concerned about the hazards and as um residents here we we're assuming that the city council would be concerned about potential hazards to the residents and so we will be going to the school board with a letter um with many signatures from our neighbors and but I

0:07:13just wanted to address some of our concerns and those are doing that demolition contaminants diesel exhaust dust noise hazardous materials being staged near a living space pest migrating onto our property and we've already under we already you know lived through the high school renovation and

0:07:34we you know some of us had rats in our homes over and over and over again and we personally had to take responsibility to deal with that um we're also concerned about property hazards um including the fact that they will be the district will be um creating a retaining wall and they

0:07:54propose to demolish offense an ivy-grown fence and that demolition will cut into the um slope of our yard where there are several large trees and I actually spoke with Stephen pray today and he explained to me the result of that kind of excavation and it sounded as if I might

0:08:16lose a very big tree and I Hazard to Guess that if I don't act before the school district does I might have to cut it down myself so it doesn't fall onto my home so I'm concerned about that we're concerned about slope stability we haven't seen the environmental impact

0:08:33report we've asked the district several times and we have no um we have not been able to see that we wanted we were asking them for 21 days to review and provide comment on some of the items we would like to get a commitment from them to confirm One Promise they made about maintaining some

0:08:53of the fence that's already grown and represents the greenery for our yarn um and we would like to know how they plan to mitigate some of the hazards that I've outlined here so we're asking you I mean I'm here tonight just wanted to let you know this is what's happening in one of our

0:09:12neighborhoods and um we feel so far in our interactions with the district we haven't been very successful in getting much response please be sure to copy me the mayor on that correspondence and and we will make sure that we do our best to stay stay abreast of the issues okay thank you

0:09:39thank you Claudia bugatto is Claudia here please come to the microphone yes she she spoke so quickly she covered everything we needed very quickly would like to say that we we want to cooperate with this project it's not that we object to the project but we feel we were not notified about

0:10:08this going on and so we had no time to give any impact uh any uh feedback to them about our homes and how it impacts on our lives so we um really would like them to talk to us and resolve some of the issues I don't think the issues are that large but we need time to speak with them

0:10:32and hope that they will um follow whatever the city has for ordinances in terms of how close they can get to our fences and whether or not they can legally take it down without our approval these are fences that have been on our yards forever and keep us um private from the schoolyard so

0:10:53anyway thank you great thank you for coming out tonight any other speakers seeing none will move on to item four which is presentations we have a presentation this evening by Kimberly Mayer of the Contra Costa Civic Theater uh Kimberly is the board president and Marilyn Lang Ben Lang Ben who's the

0:11:20artistic director so this is a presentation on the Contra Costa Civic Theater thank you there you go and it's just the this goes good evening mayor Lyman and council members and staff and general public my name is Kim Mayer and I'm a longtime El Cerrito resident I grew up here and went

0:11:44to Portland and what used to be Del Mar and El Cerrito High and I'm here representing ccct Contra Costa Civic Theater as the current board member and a volunteer and this is Marilyn my name is Marilyn Langdon I'm the new artistic director at ccct and a brand new El Cerrito residence we moved here

0:12:03in June great welcome thank you um so we're we're here at the invitation of the city manager and the assistant city manager to just basically be part of a recognition of national Arts and Humanities month in October and also to share with you information on our

0:12:19current season we have just launched our 54th season in El Cerrito and we're here not only because of our season and also because of our educational programs too um for those of you that may not be aware of ccct we're a community theater that was founded in 1960 by a gentleman

0:12:37by the name of Louis Flynn and his wife Betty Ann um and a group of volunteers the group performed in the old Vista theater on San Pablo which is now Atlas Liquors um any of you know where that is right near the kind of near the new Safeway um and then moved to the Harding School

0:12:54auditorium and then in 1970 at this location here at Mosher and Pomona was an old boys club and it was slated to be torn down and basically Betty Anne Flynn convinced the city to not tear it down and to basically offer a a lease to us and that's where we've been ever

0:13:11since um the building was it was two World War II PX buildings that have been moved there from the Richmond Shipyard and volunteers constructed the stage house with a loan of twenty thousand dollars from this from Central Bank in El Cerrito and that was personally

0:13:25guaranteed by volunteers so we opened there in 1971 where we still are with 199 seats and over the the past 40 plus years we've completed a number of different capital projects both with our donations and also with support from the city um and um to make the building Ada

0:13:42accessible to do mechanical upgrades to um put in a sprinkler system which we were very supportive of that and other things like that for our 50th anniversary we oops is it to the to the right to the right no let me Zoom slideshow hang on that's okay you can do it back

0:14:10great just go to the next one is it just there we go thank you and so for our 50th Anniversary one of our volunteers at illustrator resident Doug Wagner did a mural for us to sort of kind of look at what's happened over the last 50 years and we worked with the arts and

0:14:25culture commission to do that um but um we're much more than a building and so Marilyn's going to share a little with you about our season and our programs thank you Kim and thank you to the council for inviting us to be here tonight uh as the new artistic director

0:14:40of the theater I was pleased to be able to to present my inaugural season starting with our first show next slide which opened in September it plays through this Sunday The Drowsy Chaperone which is a wonderful musical uh Pastiche that um that celebrates the musicals of the

0:14:581920s in a very contemporary way if you have an opportunity to come in this weekend just let us know and we'd be happy to have you there next slide this one we're particularly excited about a dear friend of mine from Chicago is recreating a production that he first

0:15:13did about 20 years ago after studying with Julie taymor in her pre-lion King days this is an adaptation of the of the famous Dylan Thomas short story a child's Christmas in Wales that takes off from the point of memory so that the people that that Dylan remembers best

0:15:30are his family they're played by live actors and then as the memories get a little bit more removed from him they become puppets and they're different kinds of Puppets depending on how strong the memories are we have bunraku which are the three-quarter sized human

0:15:44puppets we were going to bring one in and show it to you tonight but they're off having their facials done or something um and then we also have shadow puppets kite puppets that fly out over the audience I mean everything you can imagine to make the magic of this

0:15:58particular Story come to life it's fabulous for families it's a great way to celebrate the holidays it opens on November 22 second and we hope that you'll have a chance to come and see that following that is my first production as artistic director of the theater I'll be

0:16:15directing the complete works of William Shakespeare Abridged revised so you get the idea from the artwork it's three women 37 plays in 90 minutes and if you haven't ever seen this particular production before I encourage you it really is a lot of fun and yet it still

0:16:31manages to keep the flavor of Shakespeare while giving these wonderful actresses an opportunity to show their chops that they might not get a chance to do around Shakespeare's work because his work is so heavily um I think it's 16 to 1 men's parts to women's parts so I decided to do

0:16:47something about that this time hmm our next production is the Pulitzer Prize winner for best play uh Tony Award for best play August Osage County by Tracy Letz there'll be a film version of it coming out uh toward the end of this year with Meryl Streep and a whole bunch

0:17:03of other people but that's no reason that you shouldn't come and see this one too if you think your family is nuts you ain't seen nothing and then ending our season we are pleased to announce that we were able to get the rights to Monty Python's Spamalot which is probably the largest

0:17:18production we've ever done on our stage 390 costumes alone so we're very excited about the opportunity to do this show it's great fun it is Monty Python and the Holy Grail with some music added to it and uh it's every bit as sassy and naughty and fun as you can imagine

0:17:37so that's our our main stage season next year will be our 55th season but more importantly this coming this coming summer is our 25th anniversary uh of children's programming at the theater and one of our board members Kathleen Ray who is also a member of the founding

0:17:52family heads up our education programs um and she can tell you in more specificity than I can but basically over the past 25 years we've served thousands of children the last two years we've been named the best Theater Camp uh in the Bay Area according to parents

0:18:08press we typically serve about 240 families from the El Cerrito area and we have approximately 60 kids in each session so by the time we get done uh with each session of uh Drama Camp and the summer camp and the musical players they have an opportunity to learn skills that are

0:18:29not taught in the schools about cooperation about the ability to think creatively about the ability to put forth their own ideas and uh and their own thoughts in a way that maybe isn't uh isn't completely obvious to them when they first start several of these uh Productions several of these

0:18:51camps pardon me have their own Productions that they do so they'll be doing Productions of let's see if I can remember them all they'll be doing music man Dr Doolittle Greece and help me out Kathleen Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory so uh there's nothing quite as cute as

0:19:08watching eight-year-olds doing something like Willy Wonka so I will encourage you to if you know of anybody who has children or you yourself have children I encourage you to come and check out the youth programming we would love to see you there thank you so much for having us tonight

0:19:24thank you any comments from the Council I will say that my daughter enjoyed the summer camp more than once and many times wasn't able to get in that's how popular it is so I thank you for that great thank you so much thank you I guess I just I like to make one comment I think if you left copies of

0:19:49all our material there too Louis and Betty Anne uh can hear what was being said tonight they would be proud they're right out in the hall that they are aren't they anyway um I think this is a uh um an outstanding tribute to them what you're doing right now thank you for all your

0:20:11work and that brings us to item five which is adoption of the consent calendar of items five A through five D I do want to acknowledge uh two of these uh just with with a shout out one is uh shelter in place day Proclamation it's scheduled for November 6th and it's uh as we come

0:20:35upon the anniversary of Loma Prieta it it is always useful for us to remember that we do live in earthquake country and and it's uh useful for us to actually Practice What You Do In in uh in an event of a earthquake and 5C which is uh I want to acknowledge that we are

0:20:56receiving a Federal grant um just because the government's close doesn't stop them from giving us grants to purchase and replace 36 of our scbas or self self-contained breathing apparatuses that our firefighters use uh to combat fire with that all looking for a motion I'll

0:21:19move to adopt items five a b c d second we have a motion it's been seconded all those in favor say aye aye let the record show it passed unanimously five to zero um that brings us to item seven policy matters we have three policy matters seven a is the proposed Sixth Amendment of the

0:21:41franchise agreement between East Bay sanitary Company Inc and the city of El Cerrito and I see staff member Garth Schultz approaching the podium thank you Mr mayor council members members of the public watching at home those presents um Garth Schultz I'm the operations and environmental services

0:22:03division manager here in the city and the Department of Public Works I've been before the council many times to talk about Solid Waste matters and this is one pertaining to maintenance of the city's solid waste recycling collection Fleet so I'm here tonight to request

0:22:18that the council adopt a resolution approving the Sixth Amendment to the city's franchise agreement with East Bay sanitary company which is for Fleet Management and maintenance services effective as soon as possible through December 31st 2014. I've got Mark fagoney president of East Bay sanitary

0:22:37company with me here tonight we work together in the development of the proposal for Fleet Management Services and the amendment is with his company I'll give you a little bit of background [Music] um 34 years ago the cities began running its own recycling collection Fleet here

0:22:54in the city at first with just modified pickup trucks picking up curbside materials and over time that program is expanded to the 40 hour a week 52-week a year operation that we have today collecting you know magnitudes more material curbside than it did back in

0:23:12the late 70s um since it's been run by the city maintenance for these operations and maintenance of the vehicles has fallen to City staff to figure out the programming of how these maintenance these vehicles get maintained how they get repaired and it's been something

0:23:28that over time has really become a patchwork until now of using a variety of different mobile vendors to fix the trucks and keep them operational now that worked when we had modified pickup trucks but with the new high-tech uh computerized vehicles that we have today

0:23:45that are automated it just really hasn't been cutting it in recent years we have four vehicles in our Fleet two of them were procured or three of them were procured in 2008 and put into service in 2009 and a third was put into Service uh sorry a fourth was put in service a year or two later

0:24:05um those vehicles are now ending about are reaching about the middle of their useful lifespans and we've seen in the last couple of years breakdowns to these vehicles uh become more and more prevalent and more and more difficult to maintain and to manage um so last year was when it really became

0:24:22apparent we needed to figure out a different way to maintain these vehicles in a way that was going to be safe and effective when we realized that that was something we need to focus on was also when we were working with East Bay sanitary company during the 2012 rate and

0:24:38operations review of The Company the company operates its own Fleet for garbage and green waste pickup here in the city and they have their own maintenance shop city does not we've been contracting it out to third-party vendors they have their own maintenance shop they do all their own work on their

0:24:52own vehicles and during the rate and operations review it became clear that the company was well run professional and had capacity to expand with respect to its maintenance operation so when the rate and operations review completed November of last year that resulted in a

0:25:11fifth amendment to the franchise agreement one of the components of the fifth amendment was providing some preventative maintenance services to the city included in the rate the rate payers already paid now and that was at no cost to the city and it also stipulated that the company in the city

0:25:28would meet in good faith to discuss a proposal that would result in a broader array of full Fleet Maintenance services for the city's recycling collection vehicles and others so the item tonight is the result of that meeting in good faith between the city and the company

0:25:44and the proposed sixth amendment is the result of our negotiations to date so in in coming up with this the as I mentioned the company through the Fifth Amendment and this was starting in about December of last year began doing preventative maintenance work on the

0:25:59city's Vehicles which is the changing oils changing filters checking out components they also conducted an in-depth inspection of all of the vehicles to assess what their status is um what's working what's not how is maintenance gone in the past they reviewed all of our records and that

0:26:17inspection and evaluation identified a number of deficiencies that really need to be corrected some of them are compliance related some of them are environmental related and some of them are just about making sure that these vehicles meet their maximum useful life

0:26:31so that we get the most out of our investment in them we uh brought on R3 Consultant Group who we used on a number of different Solid Waste matters to evaluate this company's proposal and the proposal is essentially for them to bring in a full-time mechanic to expand their capacity so

0:26:50that they can treat our Fleet with equivalent status of their Fleet and make sure that they can work on a you know four plus more trucks out of their shop on an effective basis um so their proposal you can see in the staff report on an hourly basis is very cost effective with respect to how

0:27:11much we're getting um or how much we're paying per hour put into these vehicles now the result is of course that um we're going to need to put more time into these vehicles there's been preventative maintenance that's been undone we've had some deferred maintenance and it just hasn't been

0:27:24meeting the level of um what we really should be expecting as a city so the full contract is a bit more than we've been spending in recent years but there's a number of reasons why I mentioned that it just hasn't met our minimum needs the vehicles are now entering their kind of Aging period And

0:27:40there's going to be more that needs to go into them just in the same way folks go to hospitals and need preventative health care more as they age um same with these trucks they they're past their warranty periods the the cost of maintaining these vehicles do go up

0:27:53as they get older in order to keep them running effectively in service and I think the the third component here is that the broad cost is to be able to bring on that one mechanic so that we can make sure that we put enough time into these vehicles as soon as possible to get them

0:28:09into running shape after that's occurred there's going to be some Flex time in there with the company can do maintenance on other City Vehicles we've got at least 15 that have been identified possibly more that can receive labor on the vehicles covered under the terms of this amendment

0:28:25without additional charges to the city and that's a pretty good deal as far as I'm concerned and that we can if we have a truck that doesn't need service any longer or is up to the working speed we can now put in a simpler vehicle a pickup truck or one of the other City's

0:28:42maintenance vehicles in there and so it allows us to be pretty flexible with how we're using that that scope of the contract and then if I guess the final component here is that they will be doing as per the terms of their proposal Fleet Management for the city in this

0:28:55previously it's Fallen to folks like our recycling operations supervisor Mario Gonzalez who is a great worker a valuable asset to the city but he doesn't have the background in solid waste vehicle maintenance up for the types of vehicles that we have and he's been doing his best making sure that we

0:29:11can get these vehicles up and running but ultimately it means he's spending a good quarter of his time running around chasing after vendors making sure that we get the work done the company is going to be doing that for us and so it's as simple as us getting them the

0:29:23vehicles them carrying the responsibility and the liability to make sure that those Vehicles get dealt with properly which allows us to put more of our supervisors time into making sure the center is running effectively uh so that Fleet Management will schedule all of our maintenance needs

0:29:39ensure that the safety and environmental compliance is met provide for record keeping and the like um with respect to the terms of the sixth amendment one of the items you see in the staff report is that the company has proposed this formation of a separate Corporation going forward which will

0:29:58simply allow it to get access to more liability coverage It's a larger pool of liability coverage having the Fleet Maintenance activities being run through a separate Corporation and so this sixth amendment was our way of making sure we could get these services in the near

0:30:13term we may be coming back to the council to execute a separate agreement between the city and this potential new company it hasn't been formed yet and so we've got a few number of steps to take to get there um I think I'll cut it off there so I don't get too rambly but I think that

0:30:29overall we do need to put more investment and more professional expertise on the city's Fleet of recycling collection Vehicles it will allow us to deal with other maintenance on other vehicles without additional costs to the city provide for greater safety and greater Environmental

0:30:47Compliance out there and hopefully get these trucks to the 10 or 12 year mark that really they ought to be run to I'm happy for your questions thank you uh any questions councilmember Bridges um I have one could you just briefly go over the financial considerations once

0:31:02again yes absolutely I'm sorry I glossed over that too quickly um so when we propose the budget for this year um for Integrated Waste Management which runs the recycling programs we had assumed that the cost of the company because we'd already been in discussions

0:31:20with them per the Fifth Amendment uh the cost of providing additional Fleet Services to the city would be born on East Bay cemeteries collection rates now it turns out that that probably wasn't the best assumption and now we know we would if it's better for us to carry

0:31:35them in the Integrated Waste Management fee uh fund and pay the company directly for services rendered so the Integrated Waste Management fund held a lower than needed amount in Fleet Maintenance services to the tune of 3200 or 32 500 this year this contract is for 107 900 for the

0:31:57score the course of the fiscal year so there will need to be an adjustment to the Integrated Waste Management fee vehicle maintenance services line item in order to be able to pay for this service we in modeling our rates and I've been before the council a couple of

0:32:12times in the last couple months talking about the various impacts on the total rate uh rates to subscribers in El Cerrito it's a zero sum from what we've planned we originally planned for the cost to be carried on these be sanitary sanitaries rates instead it'll be carried on the

0:32:27Integrated Waste Management fee and that shouldn't make a difference to the ratepayers pocketbook um and again that when we look at historically what we've spent on Fleet Maintenance Services prior to these new vehicles it ranged everywhere from thirty five thousand a year to a hundred

0:32:45and five thousand a year the newer vehicles have averaged more around the fifty thousand dollar a year range but as I've stated that's it really wasn't up to the level of need that the vehicles had and it was during a period when we had warranties and other items

0:32:59that could bear some of the costs of replacement as they came up but we've definitely seen over the course of time that that figure has been increasing I think for last fiscal year we were on the order of around 90 000 and a lot of that was on the breakdowns thank you thank you councilmember I just

0:33:17had one question it wasn't totally clear to me when it says Fleet Management and maintenance services what vehicles we're talking about is that all of the vehicles uh in um the at the recycling center and or the recycling center and um the um and what yeah good good question

0:33:42thank you the primary intent is to provide those services for the city's for recycling collection Vehicles those are the big trucks out in the field the big blue trucks that cost three hundred thousand dollars a piece um and then are running 40 hours a week every single day

0:33:59um that's the primary intent and we know that there's going to be most of the time in the contract for the first several months going to correct uh for and bring those four vehicles up to the standards that they need to continue to run efficiently the after that however any number of

0:34:17other City Vehicles could be treated through this facility so we've developed a list of at least 15 that are other include other smaller vehicles in the recycling operation a couple of pickup trucks and the like as well as the pickup trucks in various um you know mobile equipment in the

0:34:34maintenance services division so there's at least 15 other vehicles probably more depending upon the company's capacity to be able to handle those and with those extra Vehicles should they be included just be included at the rate specified they yes they are included at the rate

0:34:49specified and the language of the agreement covers other vehicles as we're able to put them into the program okay without increasing the rate at all great thank you councilman Benson just to add on to that vein of quest questions that we have uh so the contract here is an annual cost

0:35:08of 107 900 that doesn't include the parts and equipment that we've estimated at about 10 000. presently that's what we're carrying that goes up and down depending on need and so it's a very hard one to model the city will end up paying directly the company's costs so

0:35:24we're not getting a markup we're just getting the company's costs for things like tires filters oil and the like we've we've been holding 10 for quite a while that should be about right okay but yeah that's outside of the scope of the contract and we're still carrying a light on item for that in the

0:35:40Integrated Waste Management fund and on the trucks they're all about three to five years old I think yeah in that range what's sort of the useful life that they have it can you know typically well-maintained solid waste collection Vehicles will hit 10. if you're really

0:35:54good and he's paying his mechanic is really good you can get up to 12 if you have a subpar maintenance system it can be eight or below uh and that's part of the worry great thank you thank you can I add on a question to that does that include when you run them in Hills like

0:36:09we have uh that is a good question yes I mean we expect these trucks to be able to run in the hills and all up and down the East Bay folks are doing the same thing um you know I think with the hills it certainly is more wear and tear on the engine and transmission going up and

0:36:24down and we certainly go through breaks a lot um one of the things we want to make sure is that they are safe coming down those Hills and it's one of the things that just kept me up night sometimes making sure that we get there but it should still be in that range I mean it

0:36:37depends on the vehicle it depends on the operation but the the aim is to hit 10 and if we're really push it and do a good job we can get further than that councilmember Friedman yeah um I don't see where it says where the maintenance will be performed will be at

0:36:53our Courtyard or at the company's garage or yes so it'll be at the company's garage which is out on Brookside Avenue in Richmond it's right near the transfer station uh and the hHw facility that folks in El Cerrito can go to so it's pretty centrally located um we are already using that facility on

0:37:13a trial basis with the company and that has been going very well we've seen our breakdowns go down significantly many fewer concerns about breaks since then so primarily it's going to be through their shop because they have a full service shop they are already set up to

0:37:26do it um have all the equipment and tools that they need absolutely and they do have a mobile truck so that if we have a breakdown where it's at the recycling Center's yard and just won't start they can come out and fix it there if it's out in the field and there's a fix that

0:37:40needs to happen in the field that can work and if need be from time to time it hasn't happened very often since I've been in the city but we are a tow truck and get to the place it needs to go but they do have the mobile capacity thank you um following on that line uh vehicles I

0:37:56you read you wrote in the agenda bill that we've been driving our vehicles and spending uh staff time at the repair shops or getting to the repair shops and back and some of these repair shops have been pretty far away um will this service include the vehicles being picked up at the yard for

0:38:12routine maintenance or are we still going to be delivering the vehicles to Richmond we've anticipated that we'll be delivering the vehicles to Richmond it just tends to work better because then we know when the vehicle is done being put into service on the routes and we

0:38:23can drive it straight over there and have someone meet the driver and pick them up um we also have variety you know at least a couple days a week we have reason to go that way because we make our own trips out to the hHw facility with material from the center and this

0:38:36facility is so much closer than any of the other ones we used it will dramatically decrease our kind of time in transit delivering vehicles and watching Vehicles we haven't talked about whether the company can pick them up but if they still feel a little bit better about

0:38:52about us getting them there that way we can actually communicate face to face with them about some of the issues that we're having fantastic does Fleet Management Services provide any certificates required by the air board you talk about the environmental benefits but it but I'm assuming that we

0:39:06are getting some form of of air quality certificate that we are reducing our particulates that's a good question um there's a couple of different elements with respect to solid waste collection Vehicles there's a solid waste collection vehicle rule undercarb um one of them is that you have to have

0:39:23um what is called um DPF filters on all the trucks and we do have them and they need to be maintained and maintained properly and that's the it's essentially a catalytic converter that's breaking down the particulates in the smaller and smaller components the larger the

0:39:37particulate the more harmful the health impact and so it's breaking it down into smaller bits there's also a smoke capacity tests that are required on the vehicles and that's something that the East Bay Sand will provide for our they'll arrange for us and there will be

0:39:51certificates on that I'm not aware if there's any other Mark maybe you can comment on that Air Board related certificates will you guys be issuing any or or through third-party testing entities you'll be issuing any certificates we need yeah we have an outside vendor that comes in and

0:40:10does the actual smoke testing for us every year and our mechanic is he'll provide whatever certification is required and that's more or less what I was looking for is that this is a the vehicle management system includes us staying current on any Law changes and

0:40:28any regulatory requirements absolutely great thank you any additional questions for staff I have additional question number seven in the term and termination we know that this is going to be a contract that's essentially about to start on the 16th and go till December 31st of

0:40:502014. so my question was we were going to renew the contract automatically for successive terms and I had asked staff and I don't know if this wants to get brought up if there's going to be any kind of evaluation or we just automatically going to renew the contract

0:41:07I'm happy to respond to that we are prepared to do that I talked with Mark and the company about it and they're happy to do that with us um I think our proposal is that when we uh need to execute this separate Arrangement between the city and the new um Fleet Maintenance services company

0:41:25that they're going to form we can then include that provision at that time and they they're happy to do that they've been clear on that with other elements that we've negotiated in the course of the last couple of years and that's something we could add in is that

0:41:39um you know some sort of evaluation will occur in order to establish that it's still providing the value to the city that the city wants I did since um reviewing your question in advance on this I did actually look back to just the main the franchise agreement in

0:41:55general and the franchise agreement in general actually does provide for a full evaluation of the terms of the um the new amendments that we've done at the end of 2014 so we've actually already got that built in as well but we can specify that a bit more clearly okay

0:42:10thank you and yeah you're right I emailed you so thank you thank you do we have any speakers on this item and no speakers mayor all right we'll bring it back to dice for any comments and emotion I move the resolution for the Sixth Amendment second you have a motion in a second

0:42:29discussion I've got some comments I'll just make one comment and that is that in reading this agenda Bill what it brought up or reminded me of was our discussion during the budget um back in June when we talked about our desire to invest in deferred maintenance

0:42:45and to make sure that we're getting the longest life we possibly can out of our very expensive equipment the way Garth described it now I'm imagining these big blocks of Steel that I used to think about on our street are actually I imagine they're like the inside of a

0:42:58cockpit given how advanced they are so that's what I thought of when I was reading this bill is that this is a great investment in making sure that we're getting the full useful life out of our expensive Capital Equipment and and to that end I want to Echo those

0:43:12comments and say that I want to thank staff for being Innovative and Mr frigoni at East Bay sanitary for for being Innovative and finding an Innovative solution that reduces severe and catastrophic breakdowns we are ensuring by limiting those we're ensuring reliable service we're

0:43:28maximizing our service life of our equipment and we're eliminating uh this deferred maintenance uh that we've been promoting because we didn't have a good solution so I I really do want to applaud everyone for being creative about this solution with that we have a

0:43:45motion in a second all those in favor say aye aye aye opposed abstention seeing none passes five out um and that brings us to item 7B item seven b is a building code and fire code ordinance update and I see three people descending upon the podium please introduce yourselves when you

0:44:12speak it would be great good evening Mr Mayor members of the city council my name is Margaret Cavanaugh Lynch I'm the development services manager here um and beside me tonight is the building official Fred column and the fire marshal Michael Bond tonight I have the opportunity to

0:44:29introduce the 2013 California building standard codes which will become effective throughout the state of California on January 1st 2014.

0:44:38typically every three years the California building Standards Commission reviews and revises the California Plumbing building electrical all the what we call the building codes and fire codes for each City the California health and safety code requires local agencies to adopt these

0:44:53standards contained in their Statewide codes but they'll allow cities to modify them for their own local conditions before you tonight is a draft resolution in draft ordinance encompassing the local conditions that were identified by our building official and our fire

0:45:12marshal for the city of El Cerrito uh basically they allow local communities to put a higher standard of safety when we have special conditions related to our climate our geology our topography and all of those were outlined in those documents before you this evening

0:45:39the attached documents adopting the 2013 codes really represent a continuation of what was done in 2010 in the city of El Cerrito when we modified the state conditions to our local environment there are no substantial changes before you tonight from those codes

0:45:56in general the proposed ordinance as written revalidates and then re-adops the city's current local amendments and includes a few minor new modifications due to our local conditions there are considerable changes and not to that end there's some revisions to go

0:46:13over with you this evening considerable changes to the reference numbering of the new California codes and the proposed ordinance reflects these new reference numbers to ensure that our Municipal Code continues to relate accurately with the state uniform building codes

0:46:28uh so in front of you this evening please note there's a revised resolution and a revised draft ordinance codification was a very big challenge so we tried to integrate our state code to our local Municipal Code uh so while there are no text changes before you there is a minor modification to the

0:46:45codes themselves you'll see them highlighted in a summary sheet in front of both the resolution and the ordinance we wanted to make sure that they were all correct in front of you this evening with a summary of what we switched um so that you can look at that quickly again

0:46:59there was no text changes it was merely trying to make sure we correlated them carefully um as I mentioned with me this evening and my technical experts and the significant authors for tonight's uh staff report is are building official Fred column and our fire marshal Michael

0:47:18Bond so I'm glad to answer general questions uh and if you have specific questions as to which climate issues or which topographic conditions um I've got two great resources to help me this concludes our staff report great thank you any questions for staff I just have one question so you

0:47:38mentioned that the change since 2010 has been very little um so is that to say that the California code has changed very little or the California code has changed but are the local overriding conditions that we point to that make our codes more stringent have not changed

0:47:54substantially there are the modifications have not changed substantially this is a very exciting code um in terms of in line with the city of El Cerrito strategic values this is a much Greener code than passcodes there's some exciting things about uh alternative

0:48:12water sources Etc so the state code is exciting and challenging Title 24 the energy code section is also much more stringent than it's been in the past our modification to it is basically the same and can I just clarify are there other conditions that would allow modification

0:48:31other than the climactic geologic and topographical that are listed I'm going to step right out of the way and allow my expert to respond to that Mr Mayor honorable counsel no the the state law strains us from adopting any any deviations from the model codes as

0:48:51adopted with those three exceptions okay these are the three thank you those are the three thank you any other questions seeing none actually I'm confirming that I don't have one I feel some air no you're good okay I can there's nothing wrong with with open air I can I know you know the

0:49:22computer folks left I was hoping you don't I could ask a question that I sent the email out earlier um and that is when we're talking about um issues with power lines and a loss of power um yes there was a lot of talk about unstable soils yes um with lots of different types of soil

0:49:43loam this that whatever four or five different ones so when the power the power lines they're subject to falling from condition of the soil or is it is that not really the case I mean this is probably a silly question but no it's not no it's not at all now when when you look at the liquefaction

0:50:02maps that a bag provides yes a great source and look at uh San Pablo Avenue and then the adjacent perpendicular streets that run up through old gullies or Old Creek beds or stream beds uh all of that is subject to liquefaction where we're down in a really which is very

0:50:23typical of all the rim of the Bay right and when you get that much liquefaction going yeah the the the soil loses its cohesion and what I've seen in the earthquakes a couple of earthquakes I've been through including Loma Prieta and San Mateo uh you watch the power lines start doing

0:50:44this and if they lose that support underneath there's no reason for them not to continue in One Direction or the other right so that's part of the a-bag process is assuming that we will be losing communication and I know from your email that because the government's closed

0:51:01we didn't have access to some of the mapping and what have you that's correct um but I think some of the areas that you highlighted were more Moser Potrero Arlington I mean pretty much a good portion of the city direct is subject to this problem yes thank you how'd I do

0:51:18mayor you did fine thank you um do we have any public testimony on this item not seeing none we have no public testimony um that brings us back uh for us to take action there are two actions for us tonight one is to adopt the revised resolution making findings in uh

0:51:38Direction directing notice of the November 19th public meeting and the other is to approve the revised ordinance um with a public hearing and Adoption of the ordinance scheduled for November 19th um and there's there's a whole script here if somebody wants to yeah

0:51:58so do we have comments before that because I do I I want to actually thank uh staff for finding all these errors and correcting them that really appreciate it um that uh this is it's much cleaner um and I really appreciate that so I know that how hard this is because

0:52:17there's so many things that um are cross-referenced um that it's it's really not a simple task so thank you all okay I moved to introduce by title and wave any further reading an ordinance of the city of El Cerrito amending title 16 of the El Cerrito Municipal Cove to

0:52:38adopt with modifications to address unique local conditions the 2013 edition of the California Green Building Code 50 000 where are we the 2013 edition of the California building code based on the 2012 International building code volumes one and two including several appendices

0:53:01there too the 2013 California fire code based on the 2012 International fire code including all appendices there too the 2013 edition of the California Administrative Code the 2013 edition of the California residential code based on the 2012 International residential code

0:53:24with some appendices the 2013 California plumbing code based on the 2012 uniform plumbing code the 2013 California Mechanical Code based on the 2012 uniform Mechanical Code and the 2013 California electrical code based on the 2011 National electrical code second

0:53:51[Laughter] I'll trade yeah all those in favor please say aye aye opposed absentions let the record show that it passed unanimously 5-0 excuse me Mr Mayor we also need to adopt the resolution ah which one was that was that that was the waving of the that was the introduction the first wave of

0:54:12first reading an introduction of the ordinance we also need an action to adopt the resolution yeah okay so moved so we having a motion to adopt the resolution uh do we have to read more than that do we need to read the title he's it's been it's been moved abandoned

0:54:33adopt a resolution which makes findings justifying the changes or modifications due to climate local climactic geological topographic conditions in the 2013 California business standards code which includes the California green code building code fire code residential code

0:54:50and related construction codes so that was the title that was in the agenda do you need the title off the agendas off the resolution itself I would just note that it also includes directing the city clerk to publish notice of a hearing on um uh November 19th thank you November 19th 2013.

0:55:10um so was that the motion yeah that was made what she said okay um we have a motion second we have a second all those in favor say aye aye aye opposed abstentions let the record show that it passed 5-0 unanimously um thank you that's that that does all of the business under item 7B

0:55:32being everyone agreeing to that we will and I'll just make a comment that Margaret you've piqued my interest with your um what did you call it an exciting California code so perhaps at some point maybe a Planning Commission or whatever the appropriate time comes might be nice

0:55:47to hear what the updates are or you know how they might apply to any of our future projects uh oh for its green for its greenness yes thank you um that brings us to item seven C which is about boards commissions and committees study session it's a report out from a subcommittee that I

0:56:11participated on for a little over three years in January 2010 the city council formed a subcommittee to perform periodic reviews of commission appointments terms and procedures uh the subcommittee was initially council members Ann Chang and myself in December 2012 council member Mark

0:56:31Friedman replaced Ann Chang on the subcommittee the subcommittee is continuing the work started in 2003 when city council established a subcommittee of council members Sandy Potter and our own mayor Pro tem Janet Abelson um they in that time reviewed the status

0:56:47of boards commissions and committees and and had conducted quite extensive public hearings on the topic the current subcommittee is focused on improving the city council liaison role the selection process of of a subcommittee of appointed bodies and the distribution of

0:57:05the terms for the advisory bodies the subcommittee reviewed the history scope of work legal framework and appointment process for the city's advisory bodies the city met with staff to receive background and technical assistance to complete this root review we reviewed quite a number of documents

0:57:25the documents that we reviewed are listed in table one and several of those documents I felt most valuable ones are attached as attachments one through attachment five the subcommittee built on the extensive efforts completed by the city council between 2005 and 2007 so I want to thank

0:57:45council members Sandy Potter and mayor Pro tem Abelson for that work this this committee met with staff and established in 2010 the following goals refine and develop efficient and appropriate Communications between the city council staff and advisory bodies developed future Community leaders and

0:58:06assess opportunities for the growth of these leaders standardize the roles of boards commissions and committees streamline the terms and appointments of board commission and committee members and resolve some outstanding miscellaneous issues so after discussing the background

0:58:25information and the subcommittee goals the subcommittee developed several ideas and recommendations for the city council to discuss now these some of these ideas might be stale because I will say that some of these were developed some time ago and so we we've done our best to

0:58:43bring them forward for discussion what I'd like to do is uh the the rest of the memo is divided into essentially these five large categories of efficient and appropriate Communications development of Future Leaders standardization of advisory bodies vacancy and terms and

0:59:02other considerations and what I'd like to do is actually do a little report out on each one and then have discussion about the things that are in each section so that it's we're not going through it multiple times under efficient and appropriate Communications in December of 2010

0:59:22Western City magazine had an article entitled The ethical hazards of City Council Members attending other board meetings and that article outlined several potential risks for council members that attend meetings of council appointed advisory bodies the article suggests that council

0:59:42members consider not attending such meetings in order to avoid any ethical risks or bias particularly concerning those that serve as quasi-judicial bodies and I believe our quasi-judicial bodies are the Planning Commission and the design review board the article is is attached the City

1:00:07attorney and I had lengthy conversations about this and as a subcommittee we had a couple of summary discussions the City attorney agrees that the city council should consider avoiding meetings of advisory bodies implementation of this recommendation would either eliminate or significantly

1:00:28reduce the role of the city council liaison as it currently exists skipping down several paragraphs to sort to now start our discussion uh the city council could choose to eliminate the city council liaison role entirely Walnut Creek did that recently alternatively other changes could be

1:00:49made that would preserve the role of City Council of city council liaison but would reduce the potential ethical hazards as discussed in that in the article and they're listed here A through e um and so I'll just summarize them quickly eliminate specific assignments

1:01:09so the the liaison role would be periodically rotate among all council members and therefore each council member would not have a specific assignment to a particular advisory body the concept being is that the liaison would get direction from the Council on a quarterly basis and then attend one

1:01:33advisory body meeting during that period of time and take messages to The Advisory bodies and and get reports out back from The Advisory bodies so it would not we wouldn't have the assignments that we have up to this part so it would avoid the liaison being regarded as a regular member of any one

1:01:52advisory body and allow council members to experience all of the advisory bodies so every quarter one of us would go and see all of the advisory bodies of B uh 10 meetings quarterly attend less meetings also serves to avoid the council liaison being regarded as a

1:02:11regular member while preserving the ability of the council member to communicate c um similar similar It's a combination of those two it would be eliminating specific assignments and attending meetings quarterly D Liaisons leave meetings following their report so in essence the council

1:02:31report item would be first or second on the agenda and the council member would leave the meeting following their report this would serve to eliminate the perception that council members will directly or indirectly influence the decision making process of the advisory

1:02:49body he uh is independent it's removed city council Liaisons from committees while boards and commissions are chartered by the municipal code committees are working groups that are established by resolution as such while they are still regarded as official advisory bodies they have a

1:03:08different process for appointment larger capacity of volunteers and have missions and duties that serve as extensions of the work of the city staff um committees are more self-directed and assisted in the work that staff do and then other advisory bodies so there's

1:03:23less of a need for a council liaison this would reduce the number of liaison appointments that the council is required to do so those are there's an unstated one that subcommittee evaluated it and we're not necessarily bringing it forward and that is the elimination of council liaison

1:03:43role entirely um it's I wanted to make sure that it was clear that that is one that we did consider it is obviously one that we could consider as a as a body uh but it the subcommittee did bring forward these five uh recommendations do you want comments go along well yeah

1:04:05it's now discussion time I don't know council member I think the mayor explained it quite well and I I think I think uh Cheryl Morrison Karen pincos for all the work they put into the both the research the archival nature of that and also Staffing the committee Through The Years so it's a a

1:04:26very uh thorough effort thank you uh so I guess we have questions now I guess if there's do we have any speaker cards on this item uh no no okay so let's let's go ahead and have questions and discussion now uh and if if a speaker pops up we'll entertain them at that time

1:04:47that's my yeah being a liaison all that owners compared to perhaps some things but um I have to admit that you know I've actually had a couple conflicts and I'm sure all of you have felt to be in a similar situation particularly most recently and it wasn't really on the

1:05:09semi-judicial ones it was um another more of a committee um where the park www funds were discussed and you know a lot of the people that were on the commission were looking at me trying to judge what I was how I was reacting to what they were saying um and even though there were staff

1:05:31there I I felt that they were directing more of their their comments to me rather than to staff which kind of put me in an awkward position because I really wasn't planning to participate in any way shape or form in the meeting so I kind of agree with you know the

1:05:46conflicts that and the hazards that you know arise for us being at some of these meetings where some sometimes the decisions we're making you know I don't know that necessarily influences me because I have pretty good opinions about what I want to do and how I'm going to do it and the reason for

1:06:02doing it but I could understand that and that was just sort of a very minor kind of Point um but I can understand how that conflict arises um and personally to me I think attending the meetings quarterly is is is fine um and and then I also think doing e because I think you're right the

1:06:24Committees can be pretty well directed by City staff and um I think that's fine too those are just a couple of my opinions about it um we'll get to the next section yeah in a minute okay um I'll just try to go through here the list and um foreign I guess I'm a little confused about what

1:06:52number a means eliminate specific assignments does that mean each month it would change or what does that means that one could be monthly change I mean in essence I envisioned or we envisioned that it would be implemented as as in stated in C where it would be quarterly

1:07:11but in in essence under if we did just a only then yes it would be you know the month of January it's uh you know the you got everything youngest Junior person that would go and February would be the next person or we'd have to come up with a process by which we have

1:07:30pointed okay so so then my comment about that would be I don't think it would work very well logistically in terms of other meetings that we all have right so I think it's an impractical um uh solution is is um if I understand I mean let's see so yeah so anytime you've got somebody

1:07:54who's got a basically be available to go to all of the different ones that we have it presupposes you don't do anything else uh in particular that you don't do anything else that relates to the city and and that's not true so that would be problematic and then the other one is

1:08:13that some things are during the day some things are at night and um I think I'm the only one who doesn't work full-time so um that would be problematic for some so so there are just some impractical logistical problems with that um do you want me to just go through and do

1:08:32I just want to respond to that I agree with you and I think that c would be logistically more uh doable than a because it would just be whoever that person would be would have to go to the meetings quarterly so but I think it would be impractical regardless I mean just because if you can't do it

1:08:55if you can't do it you can't do you know and so there's this conflict it's almost like a conflict between you have to then pick between two things that you're supposed to do at the same time on an on you know so it just it just doesn't seem like a good solution to me

1:09:10um attend meetings quarterly um I think is it is it is a potentially good solution because it is um the sort of in between and um by doing it quarterly there the the good thing I think there's all this doesn't mention what the um the good things are about as having a

1:09:34city council liaison and what I think that does for the members of the committee or commission or um Advisory Board is to give them a sense of um access to the city government itself and um if I said that right the um so I think there's there's a sense in which I feel if we just didn't if we

1:10:02just simply stopped going that they would feel like we didn't care what they were doing um so the doing it once a quarter I think helps get rid of some of the things that are concerned about in this agenda bill it's not an engine it's an agenda item I guess and

1:10:23um so that to me is a potentially so that would be if we let's say all had our same assignments that we had now that would mean we would go once every quarter and perhaps we could even pick which meeting in the quarter we went to you know rather than say it's it doesn't

1:10:41isn't necessarily the first meeting of the Court it might one time be the first meeting one time be the second you know and um something like that that would it seems to me work um leaving the meeting following the report would also be workable I mean some of these things to me look like they're not

1:11:00very workable and other things looked to me like they would be a lot of traveling for very little happening and number D the Liaisons leave meeting following the report involves a lot of traveling um for for 10 minutes for 10 minutes yeah and and but for some of these bodies

1:11:22that might be what is highly recommended for example but I mean but it would be okay and certainly I I wouldn't have any problem doing it if that were what we chose to do um so e is the one you oh you're just saying remove them from the Committees I don't correct just the

1:11:42Committees so we still have liaison at all because I think that's the one those are the the if the given what the concern is those are the ones where we have probably the least amount of concern so I don't quite catch that for example the crime prevention committee

1:12:01um I have been liaison to that I can't I can't think of a time when there was an advisory you know that there was an action that came to the council so and and that's part of the reason that they're not they're not quite as advisory as some of the other ones right and therefore we're

1:12:21there and we're we're influencing those groups more um uh so that that's I thought that's the concern I I thought that the concern was that we are influencing their recommendations to us they are there because we ask them to be there because we created these bodies

1:12:44and so forth so I'm I'm having a little I don't quite catch that one either um except it will make the committee seem like they're um stepchild children even more than sometimes they already feel so I don't know that I like e particularly um the um I guess those are my comments on those

1:13:08can I ask you a question on E maybe to the City attorney or the subcommittee on your just to understand a little bit better was the is the thought that because the Committees you know the Planning Commission a lot of the decisions of our really strong advisory groups Financial Advisory board that

1:13:23where they make recommendations that come to us that there's a real interaction there and is the thought where we all hear what they have to say and then we all as a group vote on whether or not to accept their recommendations for example Fab will have one coming to

1:13:38us at some point is the thought that the committee's rare don't do that and so one council member has potentially undue influence on the committee because they're attending all the time and none of us are ever sort of giving input on their on what they're doing as

1:13:54a you know we never have a formal vote on what they're doing is that the idea of what's the undo I wouldn't understand that a little bit better what the undue influence might be foreign it's actually both um there there are are multiple concerns um with varying levels of import

1:14:14depending on the type of body that it is um I think the clearest case is the one that I think every all of them become members of the council understand is for advisor advisory bodies like the Planning Commission that are making um what are typically referred to as

1:14:28quasi-judicial decisions that are potentially appealable to the city council the the participation of a council liaison in the deliberations of the Planning Commission could result in a potential due process violation of the rights of the um of the applicant that's before the

1:14:46Planning Commission it's a fairly straightforward issue but additionally um the there's an expectation in the law that um members of the city council well that the the members of the city council um only give effect to the the city council acts collectively um no one city council member is able to

1:15:13act with the authority of the council unless specifically authorized by by the council as a whole um at a public meeting at which the council votes um and the cons among the concerns about other bodies um and I'm referring by saying advisory bodies to all three kinds is that

1:15:32um the the participation of the liaison um in the deliberations of those bodies or the work of those bodies even if their work is not appeal to the city council is that the city council the the liaison is had is potentially um influencing the actions of the advisory body as though they are

1:15:54providing direction from the council as a whole when in fact they're only providing their individual input because as you pointed out it's very rare for the liaison to come back to the council say a board committee or commission is working on this specific issue and I

1:16:10would like you to give me direction as a whole about how to to advise them and so instead in the back and forth of the meeting the concern is that the participation of the liaison in in the deliberations or work of the body results in the individual council member

1:16:25in effect influencing the action of that body as an individual when that there's when that sort of direction should come from the council as a whole and I can build on that with a real real life experience in the tree committee the tree committee is is you know new and

1:16:41they're charting their path and they're trying to figure out what they do and and they they would ask me questions and you know I have professional experience in it in this and so sometimes I'm speaking with my professional hat on and sometimes I'm speaking as somebody who

1:16:55understands our government system our you know our city system um and then I stopped I tried not to do do that and they would still ask me questions they would turn and and ask specific questions pointed at me because I was there and and so even if I wasn't trying and this goes back to I think

1:17:14council member Bridge's story about the park and rec even though I was trying not to have any influence on our what our tree committee is doing and the good work they're doing on getting a good tree list it's inevitable that I I have some influence so that to answer your

1:17:32question it's it's both they do bring forward things that that we might act on like the tree list or the plastic bag ban um so the Committees do do work that does come before us um and and it and whether we intend to or not we have influence at every step of the way if we're if we're present

1:17:54council member Freeman I agree with that wholeheartedly and I think that the some of our boards and commissions and committees have more turnover than others and from my experience the ones where there's a lot of new people are really looking to the council member or

1:18:13the mayor for more Direction than they should the ones that have more seasoned folks on them maybe less so but it's just it's a very awkward Dynamic and for all the reasons stated in the article and by the City attorney I think that we really need to adopt one of the options

1:18:33that takes us out of that role I know you haven't had your comments yet but just another real life experience I have one Committee Member that when he or she gets an answer from the staff liaison they don't like they instantly turn to me and ask me to to essentially overrule

1:18:51the staff person and it's just not fair for our staff people for us to be there even in the Committees so councilmember Benson you had a question but it doesn't sound like you've finished your all of your thoughts I like this topic though I really wanted to understand e is an

1:19:06option do you have any other questions or thoughts you want to make another comment on e oh I just wanted oh just was like I thought I'm a little confused about the process we're doing right now if we're each commenting on each other's items as we're doing it or if we're each

1:19:23saying what our individual things are and then we're going to have a general discussion I'm a little confused about that we're answering questions on item e at the moment from before that I mean it was we're answering council member benassini had a question on E we've

1:19:37answered the question from uh from the city attorney in the subcommittee so I think it's still uh council member benicini's uh comments and I'll tell you what I'm doing I'm keeping a little tally of which letter people seem to be liking um so I am wholeheartedly in agreement

1:19:55that we should limit our role in some way and I'm really sensitive to what council member Ableton brought out about our our calendaring while I can imagine if we did all of the commissions and Boards um in a quarter we maybe once a year I could clear my calendar for one whole

1:20:11month and go to everything it's it's imaginable that we could do that it would be a little bit onerous um so C might not as you mentioned Jen it might not be a workable solution all of the other ones I'm open to doing I could imagine I quite enjoy going to the meetings and giving a report of what

1:20:28we've been doing and I often get questions about Council actions that are taking place so I do think that that's a really valuable time in the agenda and it also forces me to read their agenda and know what they're doing so even though D would be a lot of travel time

1:20:41for us I think it would maintain that sort of consistent communication that we have I would be open though to be quarterly D we leave after our report and E removing uh removing the council liaison from the Committees while still of course preserving the right that any of us could go to any

1:21:04committee meeting meeting that's having a session on something of particular interest to us and just sit in the audience all right Janet you have some additional thoughts um not sure if I can remember what it was at this point um oh I know what my my question was it was

1:21:27more to the City attorney actually on the comment that he made about um the the um something something being a that we act as a body not individually the city council so and you were saying that so I'm thinking about our for example I represent the city council at WIC Tac that there is no

1:21:56expectation from anybody there certainly or from any City that I would every time there's an issue come back here and and get the opinion of the council before voting at that other body so what is the difference between um I'd say the difference I'd say the difference is is partly structural as to

1:22:21the the nature of local government in California um the the advisory bodies of the city are considered extensions of um and advice and as a you know inherent in the name advisory to the city council um they they they have an independent nature but they're part of the city government and

1:22:44the council within the its actions as to El Cerrito is supposed to act as a whole through a public meeting in which the council takes a vote um if an individual council member without specific authorization from the council goes to one of the advisory bodies participates in the in the work

1:23:04or the deliberations of that body in a way that that gives that body the impression that they are they are receiving direction from the council as a whole there's a hazard that they have um that that they are being misled and that the work that they're doing is is

1:23:21being misdirected um the the liaisoning that you do as a member of for example with Tac with tech is a separate legal entity it is a joint Powers Authority that the that the city is a member of in that regard it it it's I unfortunately I'm I'm going to use independent again but it actually has an

1:23:42independent nature um and so I think that there there is some expectation that a council member who is appointed to a regional jpa that a city is a member of will actually come back to the council um on some issues to receive direction from the council but overall the

1:23:59appointment to that body is one in which the council is is appointing that member of the council to go to the body and um and act in the interests of the city um and just because it is actually a separate legal entity from the city itself um there's no concern that the actions

1:24:19of that body are going to be um misdirected by the the incorrect belief that the the votes of the representative council member are in fact the um Express will of the council as a whole there's an understanding that the um appointed nature of the position gives the council member

1:24:42um some some authority to act on behalf of of the city okay and then and then point of fact many issues come up relatively close to the meeting time and if you had to especially say in the case of what time each or or or there's other there's other Waste Management it's not

1:25:04the only one uh if you had to come back to the council you couldn't vote in it at to stay with tack or the Waste Authority in a timely manner and and there have been votes that have been deferred as a result of that and if I could just expand it I think maybe I

1:25:18have a more simple way to explain my answer when you are appointed um to be the city's representative on the WIC Tac board you are actually a member of the WIC attack board when you are appointed to be a liaison to um the the financial Advisory Board you are supposed the council has some degree

1:25:37of of freedom to Define what that role is but it but it is at this point not to be a member of the financial Advisory Board and so that's the in the the real um Crux of the distinction between the two okay thank you partly I've wondered sometimes about that other role independent independent

1:25:56of this discussion at all because I've heard members of other City councils sometimes say well I haven't my city council hasn't considered that therefore I can't vote or I'm going to vote no um and it's very um counterproductive to the meeting the convenient cop out when you don't yes it

1:26:17is isn't it okay so I was trying to understand unless you've been directed which sometimes in Hercules they direct their their waste person not to take a position that wasn't the city I was thinking of even um okay so in in summary I've I've adopted uh Rebecca's uh little measle chart

1:26:38um I'm not hearing a lot of support for a and since a is integral to C uh is it fair to say that A and C are not supported at this time can I agree I was going to say I just looked through the list if we did eliminate committees from the list and we chose and I have some ideas of ways

1:27:02we can help to recognize you know the next part is a discussion of developing leaders we can come up with another way to try to make not I'm sure they don't feel like step children that were recognizing them in some way but if we did eliminate them from our regular

1:27:15rotation then we'd have seven meetings to attend on one quarter if we did the option C is it would it be workable if once a year you went to seven meetings throughout a three-month period as mayor as mayor and I know mayor Pro tem has some several Regional meetings there are

1:27:37some Regional meetings that just always conflict with some of these standing meetings so some of these meetings conflict with each other right so you'd have to go to one January and the other one in February councilman Friedman's the floor yeah I actually what I would like to see is a

1:27:55combination of c and d but that c would not fall on one person that we share that responsibility according to our schedules meaning that one of us would attend each meeting uh quarterly they would have a representative but it wouldn't necessarily all be on one of us

1:28:16to attend all those meetings in that quarter and it would be a dashing and dash out type report exactly so if there were two meetings for example I believe there's a meeting at 7 and 7 30 yeah um you could do the seven o'clock meeting for ten minutes and then do the

1:28:337 30 meeting for 10 minutes and that would reduce the amount of travel time it would not necessarily be you mayor Pro tem because you may have a conflict does that mean that for the daytime ones not sure how many we have I know we have at least one because I go to it well

1:28:49yeah that what would happen there people oh it would be according to our schedules I mean I wouldn't want the burden all to fall on you for the daytime one so I would take an afternoon off occasionally to do I think that's I'm not I guess well let me tell you what I'm trying to

1:29:09accomplish okay what I want to see is that they feel that they're not being neglected that we care about them and also that we have a chance to see those folks in action which is part of subsequent discussion about leadership development a little bit if we're there

1:29:27and Reporting and leaving we don't see a lot of action but it gives an opportunity for interaction for them to put a face to at least one member of the council and by not having it all fall on one person in the same time it's a shared responsibility according to our

1:29:47schedules I'm a little I'm a little confused um if if I were to say which ones I would prefer out of this list yeah um one so so in this in my list there can be more than one okay so attend a meeting quarterly means as we do now only instead of going once a month say we go once a quarter right

1:30:12and that does that mean staying the whole time yes okay so there's two variations that there could be of that one is to um stay the whole meeting and the other is to give a report and then leave correct so one could do it either way actually and then the D is to go every month if it's a monthly

1:30:34meeting and uh then leave after report so no it doesn't say anything about going to every meeting well it's it's intentionally it's intentionally silent on that matter so B and D could both be selected you could be go quarterly and do 10 minutes only if both B and D are

1:30:54what the council wants to do then you would go quarterly and you would be there 10 minutes if D is the only thing we wanted to do then the expectation would be that you would go to Every meeting just for 10 minutes which one is saying you're going to everyone none of them do but by not by D

1:31:12not saying quarterly it could be the same frequency that we go now but you would only go for 10 minutes or whatever your report out period is so it would be continuing the same frequency that you're going now um is what D would do but if we did B and D then it would be quarterly for a

1:31:35report out period only okay the um the thing I have the most problem with is the idea that um a person takes a turn at going to everything because to me the actual exposure to like even knowing somebody's name it gets close to zero um and if you have to like meet somebody

1:32:00repeatedly in order to to really know them say on this you know in order to establish enough of a relationship so that if you saw them at Trader Joe's you would say I know that person and her name is you know whatever it is um and I think that's part of that what

1:32:24the committee members get out of having a council member come is that they know that they are in fact known as a person so the things where we all take our quarter and then there's five quarters in the cycle I suppose you know so by the time we do it again it would be different people on the

1:32:45committee and there would be no sense of relationship and um although the one thing I liked about that option is that when it comes time to interview for a committee I find that when it's arts and culture I say Mark you know how is arts and culture functioning what does it

1:32:59need and I feel like if we all went to one I mean of course we could all do this on our free time but if we were all forced to rotate then we would get to know we wouldn't know the individuals that's true but we would kind of know the dynamic of the group we wouldn't

1:33:13know the dynamic if all we did was give her a report right but that the argument about your schedule was much more convincing to me that one is like a non-starter the getting I mean that's and and there's another one well e has a problem in that the one that where

1:33:27there's a real conflict supposedly is is not a committee but the award and also a commission correct so though so that's kind of backwards in that aspect of it but um so I guess I I don't I guess I kind of don't care I I don't on a personal level I don't care that it's more work to go once a month

1:33:51than it is once a quarter um if it um helps the members of our uh various advisory bodies feel like they are part of our city uh government and that they are important and I think if that is is the most we can do to show that then I'm totally happy to do that um and I actually do think that's

1:34:15important to let people know that they are you know that they're not just out there all by themselves isolated uh never interacting with um anybody and I think the time when most of the that occurs is before the meeting actually starts really it's like saying Hi how are you

1:34:37that sort of thing that occurs before the the formal start of the meeting so in the case of either of where did it go yeah the D for example we would theoretically get their say even five even five minutes we'll probably do the trick and you can say hi how are you to people and that's kind of

1:35:02the thing I think that makes and my challenge is that relationship my challenge is that I I've never been to arts and culture never um never been assigned to eqc so I don't know any of these people because I've never I've never gone to any of their meetings um and so I so having full-time

1:35:22assignments for and I and I understand you know it part of it has to do with schedules the external schedules having permanent full-time assignments to certain committees you know I don't I don't I've never gotten to see anybody on those committees so I I just don't I

1:35:40think that it rotation um if if it's going to be not rotated within the year then it needs to be better rotated from year to year because there are groups out there that are doing volunteers out there that are doing work that I've never met except when they were interviewed and some of

1:36:00them I didn't even interview they're still serving as a result of previous appointments I think the gist of this part part of the conundrum is you know Mark made a statement that you know you get to know people and you and then Rebecca said well you know when you

1:36:16when you have a regular assignment you get to see the Dynamics of the group and sometimes that actually does enter a little bit into an appointment perhaps so if you're if you're only going to report out and leave I I don't think you're gonna get to know anybody I mean I might

1:36:35see their name you know but I'm not really going to know anything about them really and I don't think you learn much about how the group Works whether or not that be important or not but it also conflicts with what we're trying to keep separate and that is the ethical part of it if you're going to

1:36:54stay quarterly for the entire meeting so it's one of those things what do you what do you want to weigh here is it more important to know the people that we've appointed that we want to give them some validation to what we appointed them to do and get to know them and see a little bit of

1:37:13body of their work can we get that from the staff yeah I think we probably can um no I mean I don't know I mean one of the things I looked at just the paragraph above this is you know read the minutes well you know I was gone in August I read the minutes to all the

1:37:29meetings I read the minutes to this meeting and when you read the minutes minutes are brief they're just minutes so I don't expect them to be a Verbatim um report of everything that took place but when you watch it on the website I got a lot of insight that's what went on in

1:37:46that meeting you know reading minutes isn't that valuable for me um you don't learn too much about the Dynamics and what goes on in the meeting so I mean that's sort of a conundrum I don't have an opinion one way or the other but it's just something that we've all thought about brought up and I don't

1:38:01know how we address that yeah I mean we I believe all meetings are are digitally recorded now yeah almost all of them the ones I go to are um in the hillside conference room they're just recorded but not posted are they posted on the website no no no none of the audios are there

1:38:25but we can't even aware there's audios on the ones I go to yeah there's almost everyone I go to there's audio well they're on the ones I do so is this a lot of extra work to get another audio tape if if we chose as the liaison if we do have Liaisons to I have a tape to listen to We don't even

1:38:47wear a lot of stuff I mean if I know you don't no no we don't even have because some of them are enlarged we don't even have the recording well mine all do okay the like for example the ones that set out um where the group sits out there kind of in a circle of or a half circle or

1:39:04whatever there are no speakers even but but they put that as a recorder they put a recorder like design review board they have they have recorded so yeah but you couldn't hear because people some of those movies can't hear anything anyone's saying anyway okay speaker pickup but

1:39:24thank you uh Karen Pinkus assistant city manager with technology these days it would be pretty easy to post an audio file on a website and I don't really necessarily care if it's posted on the website it was just that if I chose to listen to it it would be available to

1:39:37them absolutely rather than read minutes that's my point could could actually then request that it be made you know that all the the rest you know like the ones I'm going to I know are not being recorded or anything so that would be potentially a part when we get to when we get to the discussion

1:39:57about modifying our policy we could certainly um so attachment um it's the there's there's an attachment in here that we will be discussing at some point or is it I think it's attachment one um is our policy uh it's the it's the policy on commissions boards committees and task

1:40:24force and potentially we can modify that to include uh recording digital recording and and making those recordings available um could I just ask is there so it sounded like the mayor and I had some interest in rotating if there were a way to get over the scheduling like perhaps we pair

1:40:45up where Mark and I we both work but one of us is going to go to the committee on Aging during the day but maybe there's another night where I can't go to something and he would cover that one for me is there any other interest aside from on my part and mayor lyman's part

1:40:59on rotating so that we see all of the boards and commissions in action during a three-month period are we doing a year I might only imagine if you see once in a year because uh somebody else is going two or three times right I guess before I close the door is anybody else

1:41:16interested in that there's another alternative I can think of that I don't know if it's interesting but I'll suggest it for consideration is that one person is assigned to be that person I was talking about but then um we can have a system where people could just do it if they're interested

1:41:36that the um a second council member could go and sit in the audience and go out and rotate themselves on their own schedule who I mean that can happen now really right um but that gets us an even deeper water in terms of possibly influencing The Liberation if they just sit in the

1:41:59audience yeah I mean that's what I talked about yeah I'm not having so my compromise on not having regular assignments you know there if there are things that truly meet before six o'clock in the evening there's no way or shape or form I would ever be able to go to those

1:42:18meetings and I I don't expect my schedule to put more burden on for other people but that's the reality of my schedule um but the compromise position could be that you can only be that liaison for one year and you have to have different liaison in a different group that you're layers

1:42:37on to the following year you can't be the same liaison year after year in other words so I cannot do park and rec next year if I'm on this year as liaison I don't know and that would that would begin to address rotating us so that we do get to see how different staff and uh

1:42:59volunteers you know appointed body volunteers are um you know so for example I don't know who is on EDB Economic Development Bureau liaison when you were on economic development Bureau but you know during that through two or three year period that you were on economic development

1:43:19board that I was never liaison to that I think I was you know park and rec for two years in a row because I was a previous park and rec commissioner so you know it I I would support certainly rotating uh from year to year and and council member Abelson and I certainly

1:43:40have had discussions about um the fact that given your complicated external schedule that that would potentially eliminate you from being on any boards liaison for example until some of your external commitments were reduced um and that might be okay I mean I'm not

1:44:02I mean I'm not sure what that's accomplishing um if other people want to go to committee on Aging for example and that assumes that we keep Liaisons to the Committees then you wouldn't have to go so it would be you would be relieved of that of that obligation um and you know eqc I know

1:44:31um many of us have never liaison to Environmental Quality committee again it's a committee so maybe we wouldn't have Liaisons depending on how we decide on item e H um and I know that you have conflicts for almost every other boarding commission uh external complex good

1:44:50conflicts we want you representing us regionally we want you on Wick tack we want you on on these Regional bodies because that's where you bring us back money um so uh it it's not that we want you to choose a local assignment versus a regional assignment that that's certainly not I

1:45:10don't believe we're trying to send that signal at all um I guess my main concern is the um the um I'm not wanting to create a situation where we have these committees that go out and sort of do something that is like us that has nothing to do with the council is is what I am

1:45:35um are we influencing them if they aren't we influencing them if they're doing things like when I'm thinking this thought I'm thinking about the committee on Aging um and influencing their thought isn't well can I just answer I think address that a little bit and that is you know

1:45:58when we go to the next next segment the next segment actually is the the segment that's you've titled development of Future Leaders right and one of the things that I really thought was brilliant about this is I liked both A and B the fact that you know the these

1:46:13groups are somewhere here on page four page four that you know there's going to be a scenario set up by staff and and perhaps the community members input themselves that they're going to have goals for the year and I think it's going to address some of the things that

1:46:26you might think a little bit I'm concerned about no not so much not at all actually because I'm I'm talking about I don't know I get a sense of um I don't know how to explain it maybe it's not going on on the the groups that you are liaison to but there is a um

1:46:47camaraderie sort of thing going on it isn't about policy it's about friendship friendship type things not that people are friends outside of the committee you know to any major extent but um the um that's what I'm thinking about actually and maybe it's mostly that

1:47:09group as a matter of fact but um um and I don't mind going to that group and it's during the day and other than I have to leave to go to CCTA so I don't get to stay always to the end of the meeting um but um it's um I don't you know I certainly don't mind doing it and

1:47:33um so if if I may try and move us forward if a was uh modified pursuant to councilmember Bridges suggestion that uh we rotate any liaison role on an annual basis to you know schedules allowing um that that would be something it sounds like would be supported by the

1:47:55majority of the council yes yes but um I have to I have to understand what it means if you don't mind sure so instead of eliminating specific assignments it would be assignments must rotate on an annual basis so okay so each council member would get assignment on an annual basis and it

1:48:17must rotate okay so Sandy for example had seven years with arts and culture um that can't that should not happen um you know how that it's what it was it was yeah seven years she was she was the only person on arts and culture for seven years at the time but that doesn't matter

1:48:41this way is there anyone else who's dying to go to the community on Aging Mark was saying he would he wanted to go by that I mean I you know I I um maybe don't admit that I'm there I think that only I even almost does anybody mind if I do that one I put it that way no I

1:49:01don't I don't mind I think and just a that's a positive thought yeah it's the only committee during the day it doesn't really make sense to me how do you well anyway it's always been one of those funny ones that why is it only during the day it precludes all participation

1:49:14it's only it's during the day because that's when they when that's at a time that works for the group yeah yeah and and that's fine and they're a really good group of people and actually with uh Janet vilbus uh it's probably moving forward new role uh it's it's becoming a

1:49:34better and better group and they're starting to put on a lot of programs where they where the public is invited that Janet has arranged um so it's becoming better so I'm just thinking that um I um don't see a reason to change that unless somebody's dying I mean and if

1:49:53one thing that could happen if somebody is dying because maybe it's a different group and certainly it will be over time on this group that then that goes away but I was just going to say that that one seems kind of silly I I will concede that it's still on a case-by-case basis but the idea is that

1:50:12we would promote rotation uh so that council members are seeing multitudes of but on an annual basis correct you've got to do every single one of them in a quarter or something right no that that idea has got shot down so would we combine that with attending meetings

1:50:31quarterly well that's the next question all right I propose we do okay so for the reason stated here that then it makes it except for you going to the committee of Aging every month or okay or whenever whatever clear that the council liaison is not a regular member of The Advisory party so

1:50:55um that's for legal my understanding is and I asked Scott about this so that's when I unless you can tell me Scott if I'm misquoting you any one of us can go to any one of these meetings anytime we want if we sit in the audience and don't say anything well they're all public meetings exactly

1:51:16that's correct right Skye at any time yes that's that's any council member can attend any other bodies meeting anytime and sit in the audience and and not say anything I mean I think that there's well I'll just leave it at that yeah as long as you keep a poker face and don't

1:51:33you know give any non-verbal Keys yeah um so the the item on the on the floor at the moment is Item B which is a 10 meetings quarterly obviously the subcommittee is supportive of that um and I'm just I've heard both council member Bridges and council meeting right now it's just attending quarterly

1:51:58we'll get to the the length of the how long you attend when we get to D um so so attending meetings quarterly that the expectation on a the staff essentially what this would do is Staff would basically say the council member is going to attend quarterly and so the expectation of the committee

1:52:19or board or commission is that we would show up quarterly and and therefore when we showed up it it's not the expectation isn't that we show up every month the expectation is that we show up quarterly and and uh I have a sense that there we have consensus on that or the whole

1:52:36meeting D will discuss the length um so so I'm going to move on to D skipping C since C is a blend of other ones um D may be one of those ones where we have to parse It Out by group and identify which ones need to be the D applies to that's a good idea um because there's no question in my

1:53:00mind that D must apply to at least two quasi-judicial groups and the question I've got is um is park and rec and arts and culture as a result of their budget setting role also on that short list of report and leave is that a question to me that was a question to someone you I was looking at

1:53:27you well that's why I asked Aaron's got well certainly the arts and culture commission for example they also um uh their quasi-judicial when it comes to public art for example but that's that's what I'm saying it's their quasi-juice official in some form and park and rec is as well right and

1:53:43they're they're um decisions can also be appealed to the city council so so the at a minimum D would apply to arts and culture Financial oh sorry not Fab uh it's one of the boards drb um and planning and and the question I had was that park and rec sets budgets and and identifies things

1:54:08so I'm I'm just wondering if Parker and Rec Falls in that same category or not um I I'm not sure that I know off top of my head the full range of Park and wrecks actions well enough to say for sure so going down to the going down but before leaving the thought I want to point out

1:54:29that even if they're not adjudicating matters that are appealable to the city council they would be considering planning documents um like a Park's master plan for example that would ultimately come to the city council for approval and therefore it would be more appropriate for the

1:54:46council members not to be again I think that that they would therefore constitute another body that would be appropriate for the council members to only attend to deliver a report rather than than sitting for the whole meeting because those kinds of things do come up

1:55:00I mean the same thing is true of the Fab in the budget I I I should probably reiterate that I I do think that it is it would be good policy for the council to adopt the report and leave for all of the advisory bodies um but if you just want to focus on which are

1:55:20you know have a true quasi-judicial role where they're adjudicating the rights of of individuals that are appealable to the city council we can certainly focus on that you know for continued down that path but I would expand it I actually think that that Beyond just those that

1:55:37are um in a strict adjudicative role that there are also um those that are reviewing documents that ultimately go to the city council for approval which raises some of the same issues so so for example the financial Advisory Board would be in that same category it

1:55:56reviews the budget and other and other financial planning um instruments yes um so in in your list it would be all um and that is the way this was written is that all um because because we are under the article that was written in in Western City uh you know they would they would

1:56:22lead you to believe that it should be all if you listen to what Walnut Creek did this last summer they they would tell you it's all um they went so far as to eliminate the liaison role entirely so that is the way it's written um because because I was taking your advice

1:56:42that that is my advice um so I yeah I'd like to follow that advice because to me we have other mechanisms and further in the document there's other mechanisms for interacting with the boards and commissions and committees and so if we think we're losing that by leaving after

1:57:04the meeting let's find other ways to get that kind of relationship building with them and just to be consistent as per the city attorney's recommendation I think we should leave after a report for all of them I agree suck I'm agreed to okay um except for aging thank you the other

1:57:28reason I was just kind of it's sort of uh though is the way they're starting to set it up which is they have a program and uh in the meeting and sometimes they do it one way and sometimes they do it the other way depending on the speaker or whatever so um it just would be

1:57:45um I mean it could be done but in general the policy would be the way we would modify our attachment one the policy would be that the expectation is that you would report and leave is is what I'm hearing that the consensus is yes um that um I would say we all still have the

1:58:04right of course to stay at meetings to remain at meetings but the general expectation in the liaison role is that you would report and then leave the meeting and maybe leaving the meeting means just sit in the back and don't sit at the table and participate well I try

1:58:18to I try to sit in the back on all of them it's hard to sit in the back upstairs maybe the rule could somehow be worded that um you sit in the audience where the audience sits except when giving a report I think we need to be that no I don't either but yeah I think that's a good

1:58:44recommendation and I think more of the them are trying to meet here and and sit at the diocese if they unless they have too many members so it's easier to be inconspicuous in this room than it is but I as far as I know I mean the ones that I meet on go to with the meanings

1:59:01of um do not meet up here okay and um the audience though sits in a different place right you're still an audience there's still an audience area yeah there's a demarcation and I it could be that there's some where there is no demarcation I'm not aware of everyone

1:59:20that's upstairs everyone that's in the hillside room it's really hard to sit not at the table right really yeah they don't have people sitting around the edge no because sometimes sometimes but not often yeah they force that they force the public to the outside

1:59:38for reasons I won't go into at this time um I uh duly noted we will make we'll make it clear that what the expectation is so is what we're saying on the committee on Aging just so I know how to do it I don't know when this would take effect anyway but that which is another

1:59:56question I guess but the um that would mean for the committee on Aging it just stays the way it is or what's the change the expectation is that you would report and then move to the audience okay so you would remain for any presentation that's given okay um but but when you move to the audience

2:00:15you're the audience got it um okay e and then we can move on remove city council liaison from committees um mayor Pro tem Abelson has given a compelling argument that uh these are bodies that have the least advisory role and therefore uh we should be treating them similarly to the other advisory

2:00:42bodies um given our decision on d uh I don't see given our prior decisions I don't see a as much of a need to eliminate our liaison to committees but it's yeah because our previous decisions reduce our amount of time that we're committing to these bodies and I I and it reduces

2:01:05our exposure right so so I can go either way on e um and open the floor for discussion I agree I think we should exclude e and apply the rule that we previously discussed to boards commissions and committees okay great I'm fine what did we just say I'm not quite sure what

2:01:26we're done because I'm not quite sure if I understand what we decided um which one did we go with um a modified a b and d a modified modified a to be annual rotation quarterly yep so it's annual rotation of liaison quarterly meetings that we are expected that's the annual

2:01:52Aces eliminates assignments and and we modified it to be on an annual basis we oh okay so so it really it says something just like instead of saying eliminate specific assignments it would say rotate specific assignments annually correct something like that okay and then b b

2:02:17expectations quarterly and D leave uh or move to the audience those three characteristics with the exception of the committee on Aging which would um [Music] actually I wanted to clarify I had thought that what you said was that the the the the on that item it would be report

2:02:45and leave except for the committee on Aging when the liaison would be allowed to continue to remain in the in the audience well that's what I thought they could remain in the audience on any one any I mean the expectation is to report and leave I I think as long as it's

2:03:00expressed that the council's expectation is that it will be reported and leave with some unless unless and then maybe you know the staff can help develop a standard for that but maybe since they can do it at all that I mean if you were at uh let's say it was the um planning

2:03:20committee um then you could still be in the audience because we just said you can always be in the audience then maybe it could just notate that if they are to remain somehow in the audience it's it would apply to all of them because in fact that's true maybe we should say the expectation is

2:03:39that the expectation of other council members is that you're attending and giving a report and leaving however if you choose to remain for a particular topic like judicial ones which is why I wanted to talk to those I'm not certain that remaining in the audience is

2:03:54advisable I would agree with that so so based on the all the the art the article and the discussions I've had with with our City attorney I think that there are some where remaining in the audience is not allowed is not part of the policy it's not the part of the policy that we we would want

2:04:14to adopt okay then I think that we shouldn't call out committee on Aging we should call out the ones where we absolutely say you cannot we expect that you're going to leave and you're not going to stay there for planning drb arts and culture park and rec and everything else will

2:04:29just will remain silent on and I although I would supplement that to say that that that the expert I would hope that the expectation would still be that they the Liaisons would leave if they choose to remain though they are not the further expectation is that they will

2:04:43not participate in the meeting and I think because I think it's important that the the members of The Advisory body understand that and stop turning to the council members to seek guidance right and we don't want them saying oh why are you leaving now but you didn't

2:04:57leave the other time it just gets a little funky so I think we should leave it the expectation and is that report and leave and leave it at that and then if you make an individual decision for aging or any other committee that you want to be in the audience that's your

2:05:15own personal business the other issue about that that bothers me a little bit is the Civil Rights issue of of not having access and I'm thinking maybe even not so much of these people here but future council members will say it's my civil right because I mean that's why I asked the question earlier

2:05:37is it and I didn't and you answered yes but there's we're striking a balance between what the council's expectations are and setting a policy for itself um and the individual rights of council members to attend um meetings of Interest those those are not that difficult I think to reconcile

2:05:55I think the council can clearly Express on a policy that it has an expectation that Liaisons will report and leave or some variation thereof but but that if they choose to remain the council's expectation is if they're there as a liaison they will not participate in the

2:06:10meeting if as an individual I think they want to come to him to a meeting and either observe or even express themselves on an issue they have the individual right to do that and council members do not give up their first amendment rights by being elected but they do need to understand that they are

2:06:28potentially creating issues both for for the city as a whole and for the for the very item that they're interested in the outcome of because if they express a view on an item that is potentially appealable or will come through its natural course to the city council they may very well be

2:06:46included from participating on that before the council okay I guess what my hope would be is that something to that effect would or a simplified version of it would be stated so that um some future council member who's not in the room at the time right now would not feel like they were having

2:07:06their civil rights violated correct yes that's what I'm a little concerned about yeah and just as we're modifying past policies a future Council can modify this policy that we're establishing and if a future City attorney has a different opinion they can do that so

2:07:24we're not constraining in all eternity from a different system if somebody feels their rights are being violated and they can make a case and convince two of their colleagues to change it they can change it but what I'm saying is is kind of a different thing I understand yeah I'm

2:07:43just saying that we're elected by the citizens to serve on the city council and we want to make sure that our role is clearly defined in terms of ethics and in terms of uh the judicial nature of our deliberations and so we on the advice of council are developing this

2:08:06new policy to clarify that so it would state that yes that right that's kind of what I'm saying is it is this that would be said we will we will start be actually a statement about that and we will do that so there's context for it yeah yeah we will in the policy we will

2:08:25and to answer your question what's next I think what's next is that we we're getting Guidance the subcommittee is getting guidance tonight and we'll come back with specific proposed documents like the policy guide document the order answers that potentially would Implement

2:08:41some of these things so moving on to page four development of Future Leaders um these were some ideas that came from a variety of of sources A and B were developed and then I read about what Walnut Creek is doing and so I threw c in there um so that that's a just a afterthought

2:09:05um I felt it was very important and Mark and I talked about the annual work plans uh it the chair needs to basically have a mission or develop a mission on an annual basis and that would be their their first sort of assignment as they became chair would be to work on say an

2:09:25annual plan and then we would hope that they would come and give a report to the city council so this would be annual reports um and that would be their opportunity to stand in front of a dice talk about the successes of their of their group and really to all of us

2:09:45um you know show give them an opportunity to be a leader um so those were those are the two ideas and then see my now that we've decided to um maintain Liaisons I'm not certain that the quarterly breakfast is necessary uh because that was that's what Walnut Creek developed to

2:10:04in instead of a liaison rule for them to to meet the people uh that that as Janet said build relationships with the people that are volunteering on our advisory bodies so I'm would not support C at this point because we did not we've maintained a lot of our liaison

2:10:25assignments um I have one question about the work plan being annual and um on the eqc they have spent a lot of time on on that topic and some there are some some cases that might be a good thing and be the right amount of time but in other cases maybe it's two years I think that that's a

2:10:54good point I think we would want to phrase it maybe that all right chair of an advisory body would work with the staff liaison to develop uh periodic work plans that would be reviewed on an annual basis so they could choose a two or four year plan but every year they have an agenda

2:11:15item let's take a look at the plan and see what we're doing and and then the chair would bring it to us at some point yeah but I I do want combination I do want to see each chair whether it's the chair of the crime prevention uh Marty or chair of the human relations commission I'd love

2:11:35to see them come and talk to us during the year it doesn't all have to be in you know the the second meeting in April um but for us to see who is the current chair and absolutely have it done in a forums that we can ask them questions and I think it works best with combined

2:11:50with B and the other thing I would suggest is that staff develop a standard format or template for these plans so when we look at them there's some consistency and uh it's Apples to Apples instead of completely different formats where possible yeah where possible

2:12:14aging report yeah photographs right there may be some other but you know um because we also don't want them to spend their entire year doing it working this on this plan yeah and then doing it again right well hopefully it's it's something I think the idea of setting one up for multiple

2:12:39years is is a really good idea you know whether it's crime prevention or financial Advisory Board and then an annual review just to make sure that that that what they're planning to do is still is so appropriate I like a and b as well with the subcommittee entertain one more

2:12:56suggestion I think this is a great goal I've been thinking that perhaps we could consider using since we're going to eliminate um see where we all get together with food and talk to the chairs we do have the annual recognition dinner where we get everybody together which is a great

2:13:11event and I've been thinking that it we might use that event more in the development of Future Leaders vein where instead of it being a presentation given by City Council Members we could turn it into something more like a presentation by chairs or a presentation by a SubCom

2:13:28you know each of the Committees and Boards commissions can decide if they'd like to make a presentation at that dinner that would just be you know a one or two minute discussion rather than having us all read their names they might like being recognized for the work

2:13:43they're doing rather than um again a show where it's really about us I've always felt that that dinner might be a little bit more entertaining if it were a show about them and the work that they're doing so that's just a suggestion um that might fit under development of

2:13:57Future Leaders where I would give an opportunity for the chairs or vice chairs to speak to a large group about the work they've done throughout the year the the only thing I could think of that would be a problem about that would be that they aren't necessarily there

2:14:13because we it's so hard to get a date when everybody can come even on the council um that the idea that we could get all of the chairs of all of the Committees bless all the members of the council [Music] um it is it just doesn't seem like that it's very viable I guess I if they're

2:14:34not all there that's fine I was more just thinking of changing that program so that we aren't the focal point of the program the buzzwords I wrote down was a show by them for them so in other words they decide what they want to present about their committee on Aging committee the

2:14:52financial Advisory Board and and they know the date far enough in advance so that if the chair can't make it the you know assistant chair goes and if the assistant chair can't make it the next person down the line goes I I like your idea uh council member benesini the

2:15:09uh but what I think is unrealistic to think that there would be a one or two minute presentation people who aren't necessarily that used to speaking in public like that would tend to go on 5 10 15 20 minutes some of them so as long as we have a little um coaching in advance to you know take a

2:15:29look at what they're going to present with the staff liaison to make sure that it's uh you know what I'm saying we don't want to be there for five hours I'm not sure it's should be there I I just don't let's give it some more thought we don't the other thing is that

2:15:49they invite signifi you know they each have a somebody else there too so it's kind of a I mean I thought it I always thought this was a thank you event I think it's a thank you event that when the mayor gets up and says thank you that is fantastic but when we all stand

2:16:05there and read all of their names I've always find that to be a little bit of a lengthy process that's not really important informant yeah that's not informing anybody this is um that the liaison introduces the chair and then the chair introduces everyone else in fact maybe we even did that this last

2:16:23time I don't know no we didn't no okay sometimes we do it we have done it that way and that could help to accomplish it still seems like you're not informing you're just reading names yeah but it's I guess developing Future Leaders I view this as their opportunity

2:16:38to get to know one another as potential future colleagues and to get to know one another's work and what often seemed to happen is that you sit at your own table with your commission and you don't really talk to other commission members I think it wasn't about developing

2:16:52Future Leaders it was about great thank you and thank you and here's some dinner fun time with your group right I think those are all great I just think the presentation that tends to go on for close to 45 minutes or an hour could be a better use of presentation time

2:17:12we'll take it under advisement exactly we'll take another advisement um so I I'm hearing support for those uh the the work plan uh development and uh a chair reporting out to the council yes moving down to standardized standardization advisory bodies obviously a has already been discussed

2:17:35and um it we would not be implementing a uh B is uh change economic development board to a committee um it it does then allow it to become a body of 15 volunteers as an extension of our staff and given the number of candidates that have came before us that we just interviewed I actually felt that

2:18:00um this was still a very viable uh discussion um I think what we discussed in the subcommittee is that committees are extension of staff and that the economic development board is truly should be considered staff of our our extensions of our development staff and so by

2:18:22changing their name to committee we would make them similar to the other committees that are extensions of staff and that's that's the they would we would physically change them up to a board of 15.

2:18:39um is or sorry a committee of 15. so that's how they would change um I like the idea that um to me I I don't actually view a committee as an extension of staff you know I would not have said that if you know just ask me what is a committee right um that is not a thought that would have

2:19:01come to mind um I think of it more as a part of the community that's developing things that connect to the community um and thinking about the ones we do have crime prevention certainly connects to the community now certainly we all connect to the community in one way or another but

2:19:27um they do it in a citizen to Citizen Way um that's the difference that's the not that's the part where I don't connect it to the staff part of it the other um that okay so so I have that comment but the other comment that I have is really related to the idea of expanding the

2:19:54economic development board and I really like that idea and I think like you that having seen how many different people applied it's a shame not to be able to put them all on um because I think that the more people we have on it you know in terms of how many we have see

2:20:13applying the more ideas we can come up with that might help us with economic development and I think that's a really good thing and would be really useful and all you know all of those eyes and ears in our community which which they represent would be really helpful so I

2:20:31hope and I would I would encourage it for that reason and then I would also in terms of what I see at committee you know based on what I think of as the role of a committee um that they could do these Pro they could do some sort of projects related to Economic Development whatever it's

2:20:50determined that they would be so um anyway that's well I I agree with your comments and I think this is a body that cries out for an annual work plan and an annual report all it sounds like everyone's in favor of of changing EDB to a committee yes yes that say anything about how often it

2:21:15meets or or what determines how often any committee or Board of commission meets the ordinance that would act that that would enact this committee would discuss their frequency and at this point in time I would be proposing monthly um their ad hoc quarterly system I think

2:21:34was confusing to the to the potential members and so I I I I think the or the resolution that would form this committee would be proposing monthly said okay because I've gotten comments from the public um yeah complaining about the lack okay correct yep um and and there's actually something that

2:22:00in other considerations that will hopefully address um committee issues as well um so vacancy is in terms um consider a city council subcommittee to review applications and choose interview candidates So currently the city council as a whole conducts the interviews for every

2:22:21applicant this proposal would form a in any one selection cycle which form a subcommittee of the council that would screen the applicants and and bring forward just selected candidates for interview um that's that hopefully would streamline the amount of time that the

2:22:47whole Council has to consider applications go ahead I don't like that idea I actually think that the thing that I think that this comment is reacting to is that we get a lot of people who say they want to be on a committee where and the committee process is not

2:23:09even to go through the interview process at all they should just go straight to the other and that's where the problem is because I don't think we have um well so let's say for example there's a candidate who has applied for no committees let's say they've applied for

2:23:31the financial Advisory Board the Planning Commission park and rec and um something else and they're just not qualified for any of those committees none of them or commissions um they would come to the subcommittee and the subcommittee would say you don't have the qualifications to be on the

2:23:52Planning Commission the design review board Financial Advisory board or park and rec however based on your application we think you should go to um you know the the one of the Committees that's out there so that's what that subcommittee would do and and that applicant wouldn't necessarily take

2:24:11up time of the whole committee uh being interviewed for positions they're not qualified for right now we have no way of of screening unqualified people but the only thing we do is interview the I mean the the maximum we do is interview them is five five group five

2:24:33people interview them right that that would be if they're unqualified then five people would interview them and that's all the effort that's gone into it right but if we did it the other way then the qualified people would get interviewed twice if I understand what you're proposing

2:24:55correctly they potentially would get depending on what the process is they could they could just be the subcommittee could just screen res screen the resumes and that could be the process or the subcommittee could ask um specific questions uh some of the ones that we've you know

2:25:14we always say is not necessarily A pertinent question the subcommittee could ask the how do you think you can make a fair decision or the subcommittee could say what in your background is is relevant and then the whole Council would ask a different question um and so the whole council's interview

2:25:32would go from 15 minutes to say eight minutes per person and so the whole Council would be making their decisions um you know with less time involved total and the subcommittee which would rotate um because it wouldn't be the same subcommittee all year long the

2:25:51subcommittee would be spending time I don't know I just I I think that the other changes being proposed here um in like changing when it's done and and spreading it out over the years so that not all committees end at the same period I think we'll solve to the extent that I I don't really view

2:26:19that we have that much of a problem except this one time of the year January which we're almost it's almost here when it like all happens all at once and that that is a problem councilmember Bridges then councilmember Friedman yeah so I agree with BNC I think that that would

2:26:37be a way to sort of get over that problem that we have every January um so what I'm understanding from a is a subcommittee is going to conduct a screening process that's going to review applications that means a piece of paper am I correct it could be applications or

2:26:55it could be applications and interview it's up to the council questions by phone right it could be up to the council to decide what that subcommittee does okay well my account to me that one of the the shortcomings perhaps and and I'm not necessarily um in agreement with doing it this way

2:27:17I tend to be a little bit more like you but maybe for a different reason and I I kind of think we sometimes have the opposite problem we have somebody who self-appoints or self-selects to a committee and after an interview process when we looked at a curriculum vitae

2:27:34that has nothing but literature and poetry on as a CV that was probably something that was posed for a job application find out after the fact that the the person worked for Jerry Brown and wrote in a magazine that was based on Urban urban planning and development and that

2:27:52never once showed up on the curriculum vitae so I wouldn't really want to just look at paper because that person was overqualified and ended up being a very good application and ended up being an appointment that I thought probably wouldn't have made it looking at the CV

2:28:10that was submitted to us so and I think sometimes we have people that are overqualified rather than under qualified I mean our last rounds of applications have been stunning to me I mean I've I've done this before in in four years and I I know what what we have had to choose from in the past and

2:28:29it's been a remarkable change and I think it's just because of our changing demographics so I I just my comments about that would be not to look at paper alone and and actually I think the advantage that the five of us sometimes have as you've so aptly pointed out you've never been to eqc

2:28:48well neither have I and maybe this person has something in their background that really makes them a little bit more fitting for that but it never appeared on their application but you know that because you that's the committee you already sit on or Janet knows that maybe

2:29:00there better be better off for aging or arts or whatever it is and I don't know that if we have a subcommittee I don't know if we're going to miss some of that I think sometimes those kind of what I would call accidental appointments happen because we kind of know a little bit more about that board

2:29:18and they didn't think about it and then when we meet the person and and when we meet that applicant in person we see that they really probably should have they weren't necessarily qualified for what they applied for but they're really well qualified for another committee

2:29:33I mean that's just my take on it is as we are right now in 2013. I don't know that I would have said that in 2005.

2:29:40right I think the problem for me is that our application provides very scary sketchy information so I agree with you Jan that it you just took that application you wouldn't really get to the heart of what that person might have to offer and also some of them are very difficult to read

2:30:02because we give them the option of filling them in by handwriting I think they should be filled out online so they're typed and if somebody has a disability and can't do that we can make a special accommodation but I would like to take a look at our application and

2:30:19make more pointed questions about the specific body that they're applying for in turn instead of just general questions like we have then I think a paper screening could be a lot more useful and could get it some of the points that you're making so to me I think that having a

2:30:39subcommittee take a look at the process including the application maybe spree pre-screening telephone questions or interviews could work but I want to say that I think a subcommittee could work very well with our current body but some past councils it would have been a fight

2:30:56over who's on that subcommittee and who's screening out people or screening in people so I think no problem with any two of us doing this task I think we would reach some good candidates but not every Council in the future is going to have that ability to work together well

2:31:16enough that the other three people would trust those two people necessarily so in in the interest of moving us forward let's just move forward with b and c from vacancy and terms and and you you like a no I want to make another suggestion because I've been thinking

2:31:33about this too of how we can make this process a little bit more efficient and one thing I recall last January was that we had a plethora of really qualified candidates for many boards and commissions and then unfortunately throughout the year we had all these vacancies that came up when people

2:31:46unexpectedly design and I would like to suggest that we have sort of at when we appoint we appoint candidates but then we also select other qualified candidates for future vacancies and we somehow give Cheryl some sort of process where those folks are placed on some

2:32:04sort of alternate list and when she publishes publishes vacancies she could publish the vacancy but perhaps we can already have somebody in the alternate position that we don't have to interview again or alternatively we could just appoint them without interviewing

2:32:19anybody else we might want a legal yeah so so if I if I can summarize this suggestion because you may not have been listening quite carefully the idea would be that we would interview five people for two vacancies in January uh for let's pick a board arts and culture and we would fill the two

2:32:40positions and then identify an alternate such that if anybody on the arts and culture commission left for whatever reason um that we would be in a position that we could take the alternate and appoint them without any further applications or without any applications

2:33:00or or interviews that's fine I think it was uh councilmember Abelson and then Friedman everything we do record right is this or not not everything we do um so there are a few limited situations one of them is um Personnel is this in that category I mean if we I have a little bit of concern about

2:33:39identifying somebody is not um adequate for a role by by saying that we are identifying some people as adequate for a role that means we're saying these other people are not right and I have a little bit of concern about that if I'm being clear I don't know so so in

2:34:03this scenario that I've I've given where there's five we interview two we appoint one we make an alternate the two that we have not selected we've not selected them even under our current system we've not selected them so we're not certain that it but but the question is but there's a different the

2:34:22difference is that there wasn't somebody else who was said to be they could do it the job too and then the other that's the difference I guess we haven't we haven't appointed an alternate I I don't believe there's any there's no implication about not appointing somebody about their adequacy

2:34:38to do the job or and even if there were I don't think that there's any risk to the city as a result of doing that I believe there are many cities that have alternates for um various advisory bodies or appointments to external bodies um and it I don't I I'm not aware of any

2:35:03case or statute that has identified the failure to to appoint um those applicants who are more than the required number of appointees and alternates as as somehow you know them beings in essence slandered or or in other in any other way like an implication being made about

2:35:27their adequacy do it because ultimately this is the council's decision about who they think is the best fit for the position there are some uh commissions for example I'm thinking specifically of the parks and rec commission where there's over time been an attempt to sort of spread the

2:35:43membership around among different um Parks and Rec activities for example somebody might be a sports parent somebody might be a swimmer somebody might be somebody who's really interested in the Parks you know so that we have different types of people on so in that particular type of situation

2:36:05we would know ahead of time that that so that we're in you know that it's one that we're interested in that way um that we would just not do that I mean would it just sort of be a um if it seemed like a good idea based on all we know about that um particular advisory body right I mean I

2:36:29think to carry your your example um of a varied representation where we try to vary the representation of the different types of Arts uh yes arts and culture and we um I think those are the main two yeah those are the main two yeah and I don't think creating a a bench

2:36:51harms that we can take those factors into mind when we say okay we don't have an opening now but we think you're very well qualified and when there is an opening um you know we'd like you to serve uh you know also I think we should ask a question like this either on the written

2:37:09application or in the interview or both it would go at this time do you foresee any reason why you would not be able to serve for the whole term we're appointing you for because we've had so many people that leave and it's not that still people won't leave but at least it

2:37:27puts in their mind you should be serious about serving if you're going to go on this body for the length of the term all right um I think the subcommittee will uh discuss the the appointment of the concept of appointment alternates and we'll come back with a recommendation

2:37:53um you know in a future future position so we're um BNC we're doing BNC BNC and this concept of uh alternate appointments um the application question will there is a spot down below and hopefully we can these other considerations hopefully are pretty pretty straightforward

2:38:18um expand the ab1234 or 1234 requirements to certain advisory bodies you'll notice that these are essentially the quasi-judicial ones absent park and rec so it's planning design review board arts and culture commission and financial Advisory Board so this would just require them to do

2:38:38the online training every other year which is it's two hours if I remember correctly two years yeah so how much does that cost us it's free free it's online for you it's online free great so so I or attend a class or or you can attend a class right the Mars Navi puts them on

2:39:03we do we often have classes that we all we also we often offer the class at um Regional events um that are that are either open in the public or open open to members of legislative bodies or or city bodies and um or it's a nominal fee to attend um I find that our clients are pretty

2:39:24Cooperative about if one of them is scheduled a class that they make it pretty well known and allow members of neighbor agencies to come excellent great yeah um chair of a appointed body or sorry advisory body chair of an advisory body would serve no more than two consecutive

2:39:43years um this this basically gets to rotating um people you know Future Leaders so hopefully that's something that we can that I'm seeing nods my only question about that is um what if you have a committee that really likes our chair and the chair likes being the chair and no one of the

2:40:04committee members really want to be the chair can you be flexible then or I think I think no I think it's I I'm I'm knowing that I was somebody that they wanted to do a third year in a row I think it's does a disservice to the committee to have the same chair that

2:40:25many years in a row I I think of some of the chairs that may have done that been multiple years and I think that there becomes a complacency among the other the other members so I actually think that it should be done uh consider moving the need for a minimum number of committee members for

2:40:50a quorum and I'm going to look at the city council city council to make sure that's possible the issue is for example crime prevention committee is unable to meet for lack of quorum and in order to to for the committee to expand people need to attend the meeting so

2:41:09it's it's a it's a it's a conundrum and and I I don't know you know depending on um and we've had discussion back and forth about the committee um I think the committee as mayor Pro tem Abelson said earlier this evening the committee is not generating as much advisory policy related stuff they're

2:41:29doing more event related activity related stuff that that I would like to see the the minimum number removed so that we don't get into a a problem where our committees are not able to meet routinely I I actually think there's a different solution to that problem I see that problem I mean

2:41:52from what I've heard mostly so different um and the thing it's not just there I've seen hurt I have I've heard about it I haven't personally seen it but the um there are in the case of the Committees we have this thing where you've got to go to three meetings to get on it and um

2:42:15and there's a reason for that that's because we want to know that they're committed to doing it but um and that's a good reason but when that gets when the number of people on the committee gets below a certain point then that you can't regenerate that because there aren't enough people there

2:42:33to have a meeting so that you can have those other people go to the meeting so in that particular case what I think should happen automatically is it should go back to the council to appoint people to the body but then then the body is not meeting to get their work done so

2:42:53whether it's planning for National Night Out or um you know any other type of event that they're working on they it falls to staff to do it all because staff because the committee can't meet so so because there weren't enough members of the body I believe all right

2:43:18can't we just say that we need a majority of all the members who are currently serving that way even if we have three members currently serving if two of them can meet that's a quorum right and there are ways to Define quorum in that way the short answer is yes I mean

2:43:39um there are no statutory requirements for these bodies that the council is creating you can Define for them by ordinance um or whatever the appropriate mechanism is what the minimum number of members is to hold a meeting I think that that we might want to just put a a slight caveat

2:44:01on that as as we're actually taking your direction and putting it into implementation that we look a little bit more closely at each of the Committees to make sure that that if there is an opportunity for them to take some kind of action Beyond event planning that we

2:44:18might want to differentiate between a core a quorum that's sufficient for them to meet in a quorum that is sufficient for them to actually take some action because if you have a committee of 15 members and you define a quorum sufficient that two members can can hold

2:44:35a meeting but but the point of the committee is to have a large body of people acting the council might not want to allow two members to basically take some action since the idea would be that it's not sufficiently representative of the viewpoints of the committee yes

2:44:50[Music] okay yeah sounds good um I did that thing to us back to you if you can't act right so it's quorum to meet so that they can proceed to meet but it's a different quorum to act so that a minority cannot take action uh just because they call a quick meeting

2:45:15or something like that so they do if they meet but can't act well they continue with the act of they continue with the the process of meeting so that they can generate new members they can get reports and make reports and uh potentially establish um you know find out from what staff

2:45:36needs done but they potentially can't set for example the amount of money that it needs to be spent on a particular item so I think there's two reasons that that's happening one is that there are people on the committee and they're not coming and the other is that there

2:45:52aren't even competing people on the committee to begin with because 15 is the maximum it doesn't mean that there are 15. correct yeah um so I think it can go either way actually I think I've heard of it going either way and by the way it's not always just about committees the problem

2:46:11um has had that problem more than once but the committee process for for new applicants requires them to attend to three meetings so that's that's why that's why it's just focusing on committees so but I'm suggesting that we if the maybe we need to it has to do

2:46:33with the the total membership on the committee so if the total membership on the committee is for for example that's a different problem than if it's 15 and people just aren't coming correct all right is everybody comfortable with having our subcommittee uh present a couple options yes I think

2:46:56we've got this sense the problem yeah and uh yeah that's good um D is from time to time we have people wanting to serve on multiple uh committees or pointed bodies and not to put the city council on on uh the City attorney on the spot but invariably it's always a seems to be a case-by-case

2:47:22basis and I was wondering if there's some way that we could uh identify the at least the glaring uh conflicts in the application process so that people are aware that they can't serve on both of them at the same time when they fill out the application and and also there's a question there in

2:47:46the end of the potential conflict of two appointed members from the same address serving on conflicting advisory bodies so let's say for example I want to serve on the Planning Commission and my wife wanted to serve on the design review board would that be a conflict

2:48:04certainly some of them as in the first example in d are would be pretty easy to State on the application for both the design of keyboard and the Planning Commission that you know you you can't serve on both simultaneously I mean that there that's already on the application

2:48:18at the moment I was there's been a number of other conflicts that you've identified though um yeah I mean I think that that that that there are some that are that are self-evident or obvious enough that that don't require analysis um additionally if if there are ones

2:48:36that the committee thinks are inherently problematic regardless of whether or not there's a conflict under state law the subcommittee can make some recommendations to the council about which ones the council should adopt the policy to just say simultaneous um service on these two is not allowed

2:48:54the issue with people in the same address serving on potentially con um conflicting bodies um I think we need to do a little I needed to review some existing research that we've done on the issue because um at the moment I just can't recall where the law stands on this but there

2:49:12are some some limits I think on the ability to for example prohibit spouses from serving on on committees that might conflict um just because it the the way I believe the way the cases have gone is that the presumption that um about how they would vote is sort of

2:49:31has it has to um be um I don't know lessened in strength to to reflect the right that each of them has a right to serve on on each of the Committees so um that one we need to look at a little more closely but I think that to your general issue can we can we be more are

2:49:53there some that we could create bright line rules for and say these ones under state law um can't simultaneously serve on yes I would also think that if they're just ones that the council ultimately thinks based on some recommendations from the subcommittee they believe that it would

2:50:09just be bad policy I think we could do that as well and then there's somewhere we where I think we could do a little bit of research to provide some additional guidance on comment about address that one is an odd one to me because you get people with the same address in a

2:50:27large building that don't know each other they would have different apartment numbers yeah sometimes they at least on documents do not but the um isn't it more that they I mean let's say that I lived uh in a house or an apartment and I had a another person that lived in I was

2:50:49renting room to somebody or or let's say we were both relating rooms from somebody else or whatever or you know it seems to me that I couldn't understand why we couldn't both be on committees in that particular case is there I think that we should wait and get whatever additional Guidance the

2:51:08City attorney is going to develop and it's I just don't see the reason I'm I'm I guess I'm saying standing a little bit differently I don't see the reason we would want to prohibit them unless it was there was a reason under it's it's more right unless there's a

2:51:26reason under law I'm not saying we should but there may be a potential conflict that needs to be identified before people apply so um more clearly identify the committee appointment process on the application we find that we're yes constantly talking telling people what

2:51:46the committee process is so um that there's a later item this next set a through e are ones that when the subcommittee did their work we found a few that we wanted to emphasize um for example uh I guess the city council decided um just the city council discussion back in

2:52:13March of 2005 was that there didn't need to be two positions uh from elsewhere to business owners um and we can clear that up when we do the resolution for the economic development committee we can we can clarify that and we'll bring that forward to can I ask about what the reason the I

2:52:38was around maybe Mark was too I don't know yeah I'm not sure it was you that was around okay um anyway it seems to me that it had to do with economic development uh has a big impact on businesses correct and that was the reason for the two as I remember but um the and I know in on the Environmental

2:53:02Quality committee there was a slot created for businesses a little bit for the same reason and um wrong engaman served in that role for for a while and did a really good job actually and um so I I certainly see value in having business owners who don't happen to be

2:53:25residents as members of the committee certainly not in any sort of a majority position however um so I'm um I'm not quite sure why we would want to change it I guess but if three of the five council members back in March of 2005 didn't want it to be too um required right required

2:53:51um so you know it's the required is that the is that the part of it you're talking about yeah so it's just a it's just a hand to the options that you have oh oh I I wasn't picking that up I wasn't catching yeah that's what this was about exactly I think it was all the

2:54:06language about what year it was whatever was done it was a little okay so it's the um can if it were changed so what an option for this would be to change required to can be yes okay as opposed to must be uh I I in in the March 21 2005 recommendation memo there

2:54:28was a very compelling uh description of the value of appointed bodies and the subcommittee was thinking that this statement was not embodied anywhere in our uh group and the statement is City boards commissions and committees are intended to provide a valuable service

2:54:46to to the community by providing in-depth advice to the city council on a variety of topics and assume some of the workload from Council to research issues or gather public input and just would incorporate that into the current ordinance on C the next page seven one of the

2:55:08recommendations from that same discussion was the exchange of counsel and advisor body advisory body minutes and the subcommittee discussed this and feels that it would be would improve the exchange of information uh if if we were to change the policy so that it was more emphatic that

2:55:28um we should be getting the advisor body minutes and the advisory bodies should be getting our minutes because I don't think our minutes are distributed to The Advisory bodies at this time um and that would help increase the communications between the two groups

2:55:46okay that's good if we do it electronically I don't want this city clerk and City staff to spend all their time and burn out all our copy machines maintain a lot of copies that might not even be read um I have a question are they available online now yes for all of them yes

2:56:04yes because I didn't look just now although I was thinking about it but the last times I have looked at hasn't been true um we're resolving that with Steph or is it also just a timing issue like Fab Fab doesn't approve the minutes they aren't posted until they approve them so

2:56:19it sometimes takes two months correct approved minutes are posted and we have worked with staff and had specific staff liaison training in order to make sure that all staff Liaisons are uploading agendas and minutes on a timely basis and are they uploaded to one commonplace

2:56:33yes on our website there's an agendas archive in a minutes archive yes okay for all the boards and commissions and city council thank you yep so maybe what would be helpful to us or at least to me um would be to know which ones had actually met in the last period of time whatever that

2:56:57was like month two weeks since the last council meeting or whatever periodically so just like an email from the city clerk stating which ones had been updated in the last month so I don't have to go look at all of them to see one thing that um that we're also working on with Suzanne is to provide a

2:57:18subscription service to the commission agendas in minutes also so that you'll get as soon as that would be great yeah as soon as it's posted you'll get a message saying that you know yeah that would be perfect yeah I think that would that would address councilmember

2:57:32Friedman's request as well um and and so d they there was a recommendation to update um attachment one which is the next page back which is the Council on staff relations with City commission boards committees and task force there was a recommendation do that and and

2:57:52the subcommittee didn't find any revised policy out there so um we would based on tonight's discussion we would move towards revising uh this policy and bringing it forward to you for uh for discussion and I'll hopefully ultimately approval um so that's that's what D is would be

2:58:13modifying attachment one uh in light of the conversation we've had this evening great and E is one where for example council member Friedman's recommendation to change a question uh about you know commitment to serve the the full term um this is where I we essentially would

2:58:36would reaffirm previous direction to revise the the application form um we would we would basically try to make sure that that was something that was constantly ongoing and not at the direction of of the of the council through through ordinance or policy um because because it should be a

2:59:01dynamic document that reflects uh technology and and our ability to provide comments as a result of any interview cycle um so it the actual the in 2005 they actually approved a form and we've done very little to change that form since that time and based on the conversation we've

2:59:23had tonight I think that there's a lot that we could do to improve the form and I and what what I believe that what the subcommittee would like to do is untie the hands of staffs that they can make changes to the application great with that um I is there any comments from the two

2:59:52public people that are here seeing none yeah here's the other one I can only see one uh Sophia's tremendous she's hiding behind the dice she's sending texts back and forth to somebody she's waiting to protect us from any angry border commissioner committee members who might not like

3:00:15what we've done um so moving on to item eight Council assignments and liaison reports um I just like to say that this person has been on a number of commissions over the years um I've always been conflicted by the council's role when they come to the meetings um I look at them as my advisors at the

3:00:42same time supposed to be operating independently I appreciate your comments about that tonight the other thing is about the application has never made a lot of sense to me um there's just I never feel like I could probably express myself or why I wanted to be on

3:00:56the commission or what my qualifications might be and I I would welcome any enhancements to the application thank you great thank you and and thank you for actually actively listening and hanging in there in there I think a suggestion and it sort of follows up on what Tom just said

3:01:15um what if there were um sort of an opportunity to provide a narrative statement about why you want to serve on the commission you want to serve on that's already there no I mean that it implies that you don't have to fit it in three lines yeah well if we do it online

3:01:36I think we'll have more space or make it more clear that someone could attach something but the attachments tend to be those resumes that currently a resume is also required um with the application but I mean that's all something like it but well encouraged okay but some people I mean

3:01:58the resume as was said earlier is often written with work in mind and that isn't the right kind of resume for this but I think staff has heard and have their own ideas from years of working with this of ways to improve it so let's wait and see what they come back with and but I think

3:02:17it's a good suggestion but it's getting kind of late too yeah I'm not certain that we would see the form per se I don't think the subcommittee is going to bring forward a form for approval um but certainly we'll all see the form and have our opportunities to comment on

3:02:32it individually it's not I don't think I don't think it's something I want to have the the council adopt um that's fine but we can certainly all comment on it uh Council assignments and liaison reports should I say sure um design review board met on October 2nd and

3:02:55um they actually considered some modifications to the exterior of the Loney Gardens project which is going to be on Portola Drive which is basically behind Marshalls and the second item on their agenda was they had a study session on the design of the Eden Housing San pabloom excuse

3:03:16Apartment project which is going to be 63 residential units and a little Health Center which is going to be next door as you know at the old tradeway site they had quite a few comments to make about that but it was a study session and lastly they um had the applicant from Verizon return

3:03:41regarding the project that's at 6830 Stockton which is the um cellular antenna on the church and they denied the application because it was architecturally you know they were trying to come up with Steeples in different areas on how to put this antenna on the roof and architecturally

3:04:05all the plans that were given to the drb from the applicant just did not work architecturally it was unsightly and ignited the other issue with the project was that they did put a generator on the roof which I previously reported out and that that generator was too large and it

3:04:30was a unanimous vote of 5-0 to deny the project that's all I have um the Environmental Quality committee met last Tuesday and it was kind of an interesting meeting to me in that it showed that the Environmental Quality committee had come a long way in developing an identity

3:04:54and um the reason I say that is because they've divided themselves up for purposes of doing work in the number of committees and so what was happening I noticed at this particular meeting was that each committee was reporting out what that committee had done and then

3:05:12you know and then they went down and what was particularly interesting to me was that there was a member of the public who came and announced that he had only been in El Cerrito for two two months or something like that and that this is really what he wanted to do I think he was from Oregon

3:05:31if I remember correctly and um so it it I felt kind of proud of our committee for um presenting the way they did although they weren't doing it on purpose um and here's here's an example of of that that last meeting so they um they uh talked about or the earth I don't know

3:05:55if you've heard of Earth hour the event so they were talking about planning around Earth hour activities they had a discussion about the green teams and their activities which actually is a number of subcommittees itself I think and then fundraising for the Madera property they

3:06:14had a presentation on that and they what they call the echo film series which is showing films and they also mention the idea of um having speakers much like the B lecture that occurred and it was last year the year before now that was had the largest audience I've ever seen in this room

3:06:36for anything um and um so it anyway so they just went through and did a number of things no one thing in particular but um it's a very active committee at the moment is what I would say about that I'll leave it at that okay only Fab met since we all last met and they are nearing an adoption of a

3:07:00recommendation on our liquidity policy but they have not come to one we expect that next month uh I attended last week the executive committee of the East Bay Economic Development Alliance and that was very interesting meeting there's a presentation by Lawrence Livermore Labs

3:07:20which is on shutdown watch or minimizing because they've got a lot of nuclear projects there I'm sure they have to attend to but the interesting thing also is the executive director of that group resigned about four months ago and everybody seems to think the woman who's

3:07:38the interim Darian Louis is doing a very good job so that should the group should be more effective in the future and I've got two things to report on the a subcommittee of the Waste Management Authority met and gave direction to the director to come up with the

3:08:02budget for the fiscal year 1415 that is just the minimum number of services so it the direction was to um reduce the services to the bare minimum required for ab 939 reporting so whatever is regulatory required that budget will be presented to the overall committee

3:08:31tomorrow night do we do we ever get a meeting called for tomorrow um but it we discussed at a workshop uh coming up and we'll be uh Set uh soon yeah I think it was Thursday night but I haven't seen the agenda for that yet um the other thing is that I did it on uh represent the city at the Contra

3:08:55Costa mayor's conference and um out in Clayton they had a presentation on what real estate is doing in the various parts of the County East county is not responding quite as well as Central and West County are that's the nutshell report on the on their presentation

3:09:15and also we had a presentation from the Broadband initiative who is trying to promote competition to so that we can have better Broadband Services throughout the county both counties of Alameda and Contra Costa things like potentially putting in fiber optics or

3:09:35creating other types of opportunities for higher speed communication and finally there are announcements of one member position and one alternate position for the East Bay Regional Communications system Authority is becoming available available and will be considered for

3:09:55appointment the if you're interested in either one of those positions your application needs to be submitted by Monday next Monday October 21st so that it can be considered at our November meeting with that um I will adjourn this regularly schedule regular city council meeting

3:10:17the next city council meeting was Tuesday November 5th uh 2013 at 7 pm here at City Hall