City Council Meeting January 18, 2011

0:00:48foreign I'm ready we're now ready to call this meeting to order um if we could be please begin with the roll call thank you it's member Abelson here council member benicini here councilmember Lyman here mayor Pro tem Jones and mayor Chang here thank you and so at this point we have

0:01:20um I am for oral Communications from the public for items that aren't on the agenda no no I'm sorry I'm sorry oh that's right where apologies we are now ready for pledge of allegiance led by council member Abelson I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

0:01:50Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay now we're on to council and staff Communications [Applause] so any reports from staff good evening mayor Chang and council members I'm Laurie Trevino the Redevelopment manager and I wanted to

0:02:22let you know that we just found out that the city has received an award for from MTC the Metropolitan Transportation Commission for the technical assistance program for the Del Norte Tod excuse me Tod strategy so we are going to be receiving technical assistance to

0:02:44complete a parking policy and demand analysis and a development feasibility analysis for the Del Norte area which is great news and we should know more about that within the next couple of weeks and probably be able to get started in February and then also I'm sure that you've all

0:03:00are aware of the state budget proposal and its potential impact on cities and Redevelopment agencies I wanted to give you an update on what we know thus far about how it affects El Cerrito which unfortunately is not very much because the proposal is very short on details

0:03:19and as we're learning more we're going to be letting you know what we find out but in terms of our Redevelopment agency we receive about five million dollars a year in tax increment of that about one million dollars is set aside for affordable housing about a million

0:03:35dollars is paid out in pass-through payments to other agencies public agencies that serve this area we spend about a million to a million and a half on bond Debt Service for tax allocation bonds and about a half a million dollars a year on other kinds of debt obligations so that leaves about a

0:03:53million and a half in funds that are discretionary each year which are used for pride projects programs and overhead and so under the state's budget proposal all of that discretionary money is at risk on an annual basis The Proposal also says that it would wipe any funds that

0:04:12are in the low and moderate housing set-aside fund to the County Housing Authority or to some successor agency so in that case we have a significant amount of money there more than two million dollars that is at risk and as you also know we have two housing projects that therefore

0:04:31would also be at risk one being the tradeway project next door and also the Ohlone Gardens project which is in progress through the partnership of hatlin uh Hatland Center and rcd so in addition to those obviously we have other projects that we're working on including the Del Norte atod strategy

0:04:50figuring out how to Redevelopment agency properties within our goals the master development of the Moser Lane Center in any sort of public facilities projects that were on the boards as well as our business programs and our graffiti abatement programs so those are

0:05:08the things that we're we're aware of at the moment that are at risk and we'll get back to you more as we know more about the details and to ask for your help in our advocacy thank you thank you in the end should you say one more um that was it so that's it for staff

0:05:24Communications any other Council of communications yes I uh received a phone call from um Charles Ramsey on the school board and he wanted to make sure that we all knew that um the full reconstruction of El Cerrito High School is moving forward and uh the next step

0:05:43which has been fully funded um is the completion of a full-size baseball softball and soccer field this would be located in the area where the Portables were located During the Reconstruction of El Cerrito High this project would also include the construction of five tennis courts which

0:06:06would replace the ones that were there before the construction and um anyway I just wanted to pass that information along thank you thank you thank you just a couple of items I wanted to mention um there's a cleanup uh in El cerudo coming up on this Saturday just want to make sure

0:06:27that was well publicized it's a scene it's a cleanup of San Pablo Avenue anybody who's interested it's 9 A.M to 12 p.m this coming Saturday and I also wanted to mention that last Thursday I attended a PTSA meeting at El Cerrito High uh which was which was held I'm

0:06:42sure they hold them all the time but I attended because of the terrible tragedy that happened to one of the students there who was senselessly murdered um and in thinking about that and what we can do as community members it came to my attention that um there's also a volunteer event that I

0:06:57think people who are interested can get involved in at the high school and that's a writercoachconnection.org so I just want to mention that they are having trainings what this would be is community members interested in helping High School members high school students

0:07:09improve their writing skills you'll get trained through a pretty professional training course it's a six hour course on two Thursdays beginning this Thursday and you will then be assigned to a student who you can help tutor I think it's on a weekly basis through the

0:07:23spring semester so in thinking about reactions to these types of tragic events you just kind of think about what you can do that was one thing I was happy to see that kind of was fortuitously come to come to us as a community that we can get involved in the high school and Mentor some of the

0:07:36students that maybe don't have an adult in their life thank you very much anything else I have two quick ones um one is the uh to remind people so they can put on their calendar way in advance which is the National Night Out this year um let me get to the right year is the

0:07:56first Tuesday in August so it will be Tuesday August 2nd uh that's that's an event sponsored by the crime prevention committee um additionally I want to send out a special thanks to the human Relations Committee uh for the Martin Luther King celebration that was held on Monday with

0:08:16special accolades to uh Patricia Durham who's a significant number on the human Relations Committee all the council members were present and we had a wonderful time uh with several great presenters um Reverend Wesley and uh Council assembly woman Nancy Skinner so

0:08:40thanks I just wanted to uh make some comments about the state the proposed state budget by the the governor and I would encourage all residents as well as staff and and the council to read uh if you don't want to read all 100 over 200 pages of The Proposal there is

0:09:02an executive summary that you can look at it's on it's on the state government website and admittedly the effects on the city are being evaluated now I don't know that anybody quite yet I has their arms around on the proposal I talked with supervisor John Joya yesterday and

0:09:21they're doing the same at this the county level they're trying to analyze what's going on but there's two things in the budget that could greatly affect the services that we provide here in El Cerrito first one is the Redevelopment agency and the government proposal and

0:09:41basically what it does when you when you read the whole thing and and peel it back it's pitting the Redevelopment agencies in this case city of El Cerrito against education in the counties and uh in other words they're going to try to take money away from the Redevelopment agencies and distribute it

0:10:02to education and the counties it's an unfortunate situation that they're they're dividing and trying to conquer and I don't know that it's necessary uh we work uh closely with most issues with the school in fact there's an item tonight on the agenda that will indicate

0:10:24that and we also work closely with the county on a number of issues and I would hate for these relationships to be strained during this budgetary the budgetary uh process we need each other and we have to work together it's no longer possible to act independently

0:10:44and provide the services we need to provide to our citizens and residents excuse me it's interesting and you might want to take a look at it but suddenly this state has come up with a heretofore new definition for the relationship between the Redevelopment agencies in the state

0:11:07they are suddenly citing that we're actually agents of the state and since 1952 when the voters of the State of California approve the Redevelopment agency we've all acted as our own agent almost like public corporations in in respect municipal or uh so obviously if we're if

0:11:35Redevelopment agencies are looking at it one way in the in the state the governor's looking at the other way uh it looks like there there may be legal battles ahead if the legislature fully accepts the governor's proposal so it a few issues for you to take a look at and and follow

0:11:54the other thing is that's uh I think just coming to the Forefront about it is the state is looking towards a strategy of Shifting many of their services traditionally the responsibility and the delivery system of the state to the local governments mostly the counties and this

0:12:16may be good it may not be I I I'm taking a neutral position on that now but what what is apparent in at least the uh proposal is that long-term funding for the locals to provide these services hasn't been identified short term they have I think that the state if if the

0:12:40governor's plan is to fund it through 2013 or 2014 I forget which but after that what do we do well after that we either keep the services or dump them and if we're going to keep them then it falls on the local local responsibilities for what used to be State responsibilities so it's really

0:13:01unclear how this shift will affect the city and what increases in service costs will be passed on to the city as many of you know the county already passes through costs to Pro for which they provide the cities such as booking fees so it'll be it's really unclear how

0:13:24what will happen and what strain or additional costs the city will become under so you may want to watch that we will be it'll be a my guess is it's going to be a major Topic at our goal session that we'll be handling uh early in the spring and it may be uh time to to look at something that I've

0:13:50mentioned before and that is maybe taking a look at El Cerrito becoming a city Charter so that we can control whatever is left that cities can control on their own we can control so thanks thank you councilmember Jones for that um update on this current state of the

0:14:09budget the next item on our agenda number three is oral Communications from the public and I'll ask at this time if there's any speakers on items that are are not on the agenda Chang we have four speaker slips I'll begin by calling the first name please note that speakers are allotted three

0:14:31minutes each and to assist you with tracking the three minutes we have the speaker light up front when you start the light will turn green and it will turn yellow when you have one minute to sum up and read when your time is concluded with that the first speaker is Sula Culver

0:15:00hi I'm Sula Culver and I used to live in El Cerrito but now I live in Berkeley right now and I'm here tonight to talk about smart meters I urge El Cerrito to join the 26 other California cities and counties that have spoken out against the so-called smart meters there are many good reasons to do

0:15:24this and also urge you to support Jared Huffman's ab-37 legislation among the reasons to speak out against smart meters first everyone needs to get past this fiction that smart meters were invented to save energy that makes a great sales pitch but it's just a cover story

0:15:51the real reason for smart meters is to maximize utilities profits utility companies I have attended lectures by industry insiders that lay out the plans but there isn't time here to spell all that out other reasons to oppose Smart Meters include explosions and fires from

0:16:12Smart Meters I've heard that there was one up on the Arlington very recently and there have been plenty of others also many people are concerned about issues with privacy I'm in their billing concerns but what I have to tell you that health is the big the big one

0:16:34um as a contact person in online resources for people who are looking for help about Smart Meters I have received pleas for help from many people I have met people at demonstrations and I've heard their stories and I can testify here that this is real there is a segment of the population who

0:16:55are electrosensitive you usually don't hear much about them but I predict that you will because I keep meeting brand new ones now that smart meters are sweeping the country there's a percent of the population that are immediately susceptible who develop symptoms at once

0:17:15people's lives are being ruined and they do not know what to do um I hear I never knew anything about Smart Meters until it happened to me people have to leave their homes they've sold their homes they've don't know what they're going to do and the rest of us should not be feeling

0:17:34safe because um the safety standard that is supposed to protect us the FCC standard is not adequate for several reasons um for one thing it doesn't cover the non-thermal effects that um are put out by smart meters and other Wireless things or it doesn't take into

0:18:02effect the cumulative effect of all the other sources of microwave radiation that are adding together independent studies show that smart meters violate even those inadequate standards the smart grid is a mesh Network that creates a pulsing net that is around us

0:18:22all the time and this has been called the largest technological rollout ever is my time up oh okay thank you very much thank you our next speaker is Johanna Finney okay foreign I'm Johanna Finney and I'm a nutritional consultant I work with Healthcare practitioners across the Northwest and I

0:18:47too am with El Cerrito residents against smart meters and the reason being is we're getting reports from Healthcare practitioners across the Northwest who have the smart meter of patients coming in with headaches dizziness heart arrhythmias sleepless nights behavioral

0:19:06problems with children and it's in direct correlation to the day when the installation of the smart meter took place so I'm here to ask that the city council put a moratorium on the installations of smart meters in the community to develop an ordinance to enforce that

0:19:28moratorium and to support assemblyman Huffman's legislation and what that legislation would do would allow the residents to opt out of getting a smart meter and they would also have the ability to get the smart meter that's already installed removed just recently I had a practitioner in

0:19:50Fremont talk about a 10 year old girl who sleeps on the opposite side of the wall where the smart meter is and from the day that was installed she didn't have a bump a tumor on her head and since that is was installed four months later she was diagnosed with this tumor

0:20:09on her head another practitioner reporting from Ben Lomond had to move out of the house could not sleep for five days after the smart meter was put in she didn't even know it was put in she didn't know why this was happening until somebody asked her did you get a

0:20:25smart meter and she said yeah so they have to move we have another patient over in Marin who is a mother of two and had severe vertigo and severe dizziness and migraines and she too had to leave the home so people's lives are being completely disrupted and even though the World

0:20:47Health Organization is not recognize the electromagnetic sensitivity and the radio frequency sensitivity as a disease the symptoms are real and that's what's coming in across these reports the environmental perspectives journal in 2002 published a survey of 2000

0:21:10California residents and those residents 50 percent of them of those two thousand responded and of those you can extrapolate from what they said that about two three percent of the U.S population is probably Electro sensitive as well based on that report so again

0:21:29I'm here to um urge you to not have El Cerrito residents be these test cases disrupt their lives and their health and support the legislation create a moratorium and an ordinance thank you thank you very much my name is Smarty Kiel and I'm director of El Cerrito residence against smart

0:22:01meters and also a visiting scholar at UC Berkeley and on October 5th I submitted a request for a moratorium on smart meters to to the council and since then I have not heard anything from any of you and as far as I know it has not been discussed I'm at the time there were 23 other

0:22:24cities and counties that had called for moratoriums now that number is up to 26.

0:22:30three three that have called for for um have passed ordinances in support of the moratorium and some of the councils were originally reluctant to look at the issue but the ones who took the time to study the issue to had people come in and make presentations they came to the

0:22:49conclusion that there is insufficient evidence that demonstrates that they are safe that these meters are safe there there are enough questions about security issues privacy issues certainly health issues fire risks there were enough questions that they didn't feel safe putting their residents at

0:23:10risk and so all we're asking is practice the precautionary principle don't put something into widespread existence that could potentially cause does so much harm and and and as you can hear already is causing harm and every day I'm very active in this and every day I do hear

0:23:32from growing numbers of people who are making the connection maybe at first they didn't they started having ear ringing or sleep problems then you ask them when was your meter in smart meter installed and gee you know come to think of it it was around the same time I

0:23:47didn't put that together the other day I met a woman who had radiation as a child developed cancer and had to have thyroid surgery and has been on on thyroid medication ever since and all of a sudden she can't her doctor can't regulate her thyroid medication and I

0:24:05said when when did that start happening and she thought about it and said Gee what you know that's very odd that was at the same time that her smart meter was installed no one is studying these you know this is has not been studied and in case any of you have been been

0:24:22lulled into a sense of safety from the recent report by the California Council on science and technology I encourage you to look at the refutations of that report I submitted a packet of information and includes a couple articles that refute that for one thing they only look at the thermal effect as

0:24:43mentioned and we know now there are thousands of studies show showing the impact of non-thermal effect they didn't even bother to interview a single person not one person who has been suffering as a result of smart meters because they have already assumed the FCC standards

0:25:03are safe one two that the PG e is meeting the FCC standards and therefore end of story neither of those things are true we have a report that suggests that the FCC limits the PG new PG e does not even meet the FCC limits and I want to also point out I know that um the the

0:25:26that this is not governed by the 1996 Telecommunications Act so we can talk about health problems unlike cell towers and and finally I just like to reiterate please support ab37 uh with some of the qualifications that I've mentioned and please put this on the agenda so we can

0:25:46discuss this allow us to present the our information about this and please call for a moratorium and stop this Insanity thank you for your comments suellen Kaplan good evening I'm Sue Ellen Kaplan a resident of El Cerrito and I'm actually here kind of representing one of those

0:26:17people who doesn't really believe that anything's going to bother you the environment and I believed so all the while I lived in a house that turned out to have a lot of mold and now I cannot eat wheat nor Dairy for that matter which was sort of my life's day so

0:26:32urged urging by Marty convinced me to at least call PG e she lives next door and request that they not put a smart meter at our home and I was told that that's not possible you don't have a choice so I would just like to urge El Cerrito to examine the pros and cons of smart

0:26:52meters so that we could really make an informed decision because it seems to me that that's not a just decision that it just be imposed upon us thanks thank you for your comments on to presentations and the first presentation is from the American Red Cross [Applause]

0:27:28thank you hi hi thank you um my name is Sarah dahms and I'm from the American Red Cross Blood Services Northern California region I just wanted to say thank you to Mayor Chang and the city council for recognizing the importance of national Blood Donor month the holidays of winter months are

0:27:49traditionally the most difficult time to maintain an adequate blood supply so your support is greatly appreciated it takes about an hour to donate a pint of blood yet it may be one of the most important things you ever do one donation can save up to three lives

0:28:04the Red Cross holds mobile blood drives throughout Alameda County every year so please call 1-800 Red Cross or visit us online at redcrossblood.org to find a blood drive nearby of course you can always drop by our Oakland blood center located at 6230 Claremont Avenue the center is open

0:28:21between Monday and Saturday we also welcome calls from local businesses and service organizations who wish to hold drives in the future thank you that I'd like to present you with a proclamation um right here okay perfect thank you so much appreciate it um our second presentation for this

0:29:13evening is from the Contra Costa County Civil grand jury presentation by Richard Olsen honorable mayor members of the city council and people of El Cerrito my name is Richard Olson and I'm a member of the 2010-2011 civil grand jury before I tell you about the duties of the grand jury

0:29:42I'd like to give you a little background the grand jury system has its roots in the United States as far back as 1630.

0:29:51these early grand juries handled criminal cases in the colonies over the years many states have dropped the grand jury system and now only California and Nevada have a civil grand jury the Civil grand jury is often confused with the Federal grand jury which hands

0:30:09down criminal indictments the Civil grand jury hears no criminal cases only in rare instances here are a few duties and mandates of the grand jury the grand jury is charged with examining city and county government's Special Districts such as fire water school districts and also any

0:30:30other recipients of County tax dollars to assure that they are conducting business in a lawful manner the grand jury is mandated to inspect and investigate County correctional facilities including police stations to their conditions but to make sure that they made state

0:30:50and federal standards most all facilities and jails are inspected but some only at random or when a complaint is warranted other responsibilities of the grand jury are to investigate allegations of malfeasance in public office either by elected officials or employees

0:31:09not all complaints again lead to investigations some of the Committees that make up the grand jury they are they deal with audit and budgeting financial matters Special Districts which deal with over 100 Special Districts in Contra Costa County and they also we have County government

0:31:31and another one it deals with health and Health and Social Services which is feeling the the blunt of financial matters in the county today and then we have a committee that deals just with visiting police stations holding facilities in your jails and detention centers

0:31:53and there are other minor committed committees that deal with editing these reports and things like that each of these committees will conduct interviews and as needed sometimes a report to develop but many times no action is taken positive reports will also be generated

0:32:12a case is the sheriff's volunteers which report was on the good work that they do all of the grand jury work is done in secret and strictest confidence and secrecy and the grand jury only speaks through its reports which are issued throughout the year how do you get on the grand jury

0:32:33applications for the grand jury must be in by April 15th in May a team of Superior Court judges select applicants for personal interviews from those applicants 30 to 35 are selected for a random drawing which 19 serve the new grand jury is sworn in about the 20th of

0:32:52June and have two or three weeks orientation they then serve for one year to be a grand jury member you must be a citizen of the U.S 18 and older and a resident of Contra Costa County for one year you must possess sound judgment ordinary intelligence and be of good character

0:33:11you must be willing to commit approximately 20 hours per week to Grand Jury activities a basic understanding of English language and you cannot have been convicted of a felony or malfeasance in public office uh the grand civil grand jury likes to take people from all walks of life you do not

0:33:35have to have any special business talents and a note on the pay which is you get 15 per meeting if you have more meetings than that you still get paid for only one and you do get mileage from your home to Martinez where we hold our meetings you may go to the Contra Costa uh jury

0:33:58website where you'll find previous reports by the grand jury and also it's history and applications if you wish to apply uh I put some of our Publications out in the hallway if you're interested and um it tells a little bit about what else we do I can't go into

0:34:18everything um but I might add a personal note I did give the same talk here about two years ago when Sandia Potter was mayor and we do have people on the grand jury from El Cerrito and we encourage more participation from West County and I hope anybody who is interested to inquire for more details

0:34:44and if you have any questions about the grand jury system any questions from the council not at this time I want to thank you for giving to Grand Jury the time to talk to you thank you very much for your service and your comments tonight for your presentation so we'll move on to item number five

0:35:03which is adoption of the consent calendar is there a motion to um approve mayor I'd like to talk about 5C and 5e please move to adopt uh consent calendar items five a b d f second all those in favor aye aye the opposed abstentions motion passes unanimously um so discussion on item 4A 5c I'm sorry

0:35:43five c yeah I actually have a quick question for staff um why are we modifying these positions of project manager and senior project manager why we're not just adding program manager oh I see we changed the title that's it okay well then I'd like to move that we adopt uh 5c with the

0:36:07with the revisions that we did receive in our diocese um and let me just go ahead and adopt a resolution amending the city cities job classifications plan to establish the classifications of administrative Services director established the salary range is recommended establish the

0:36:24classifications of maintenance services superintendent and establish the salary range is recommended and re-title and revise the class specifications of project and senior project manager to project program and senior project program manager second all those in favor

0:36:43aye um opposed sentence motion carries unanimously for for 5c um for 5 e uh invite your yeah I I I um in review of five E there were some specific targets that were identified and the basis for those targets was not necessarily uh provided and so what I would like to do is strike a few words

0:37:16in the first resolved clause and drop the 10 specific National performance targets because I do not know how these numerical targets were derived or we could if there's no rush to ex to to pass this we could uh provide the background for those and and bring this forward at a future time but

0:37:39lacking the detail of of how these specific numerical performance targets were derived if we would like to pass it with the objectives um as stated and and move a letter forward to our rep future representatives to to encourage this I I do but I I'm not I'm not certain about

0:37:58the Target so I would like to strike the targets if possible um so my recommendation would be to move a resolution of the city council of the city of El Cerrito supporting the transportation for American campaign striking um and performance targets from the first resolved clause

0:38:20and striking the national performance targets that were presented on page two of our resolution any seconds for the amended um approval of this resolution I'll second for the sake of discussion um all those in favor of a comment yes my comment is that that I believe pretty

0:38:48well guts the thing and um I I'm not sure what the value of it is if we got it so I looked at the targets um and I actually like the targets um so I'm not sure what the reason for reducing the number if we're eliminating the numbers is and but I had a further question that

0:39:19I didn't know the answer to that I'm suspecting that count that mayor Chang put this on the agenda and I'm wondering if this was connected to the reauthorization bill for transportation and if you could um explain it a little bit that you know brief very briefly sure yeah the the

0:39:39purpose of this is to essentially put our community support behind the goals of the transportation for America Campaign which is all focused around um getting the reauthorization of the transportation Bill moving forward and um and in light of many of the the goals

0:39:57that we have as a city I feel like much of that is reflected in the goals of this um resolution to support the campaign goals but I would be it sounds like um councilmember if we had more information to make you feel more comfortable about where the targets come

0:40:16from which I can't speak to um we can bring this back for a subsequent meeting with more flesh out information that's what I was going to uh suggest I'd rather get the information if if there isn't a Time problem with this and because it's the targets I had the same

0:40:36concerns not not necessarily with the targets but how did this come all about and I think a little bit of more information I think it would be no problem to get either a presentation or more information so um I'm willing to table my motion okay and so I think with that we'll if if the

0:40:56rest of the council is okay with that we'll bring this back for the next time with more information perhaps it could be in the format of a presentation is that possible yes I think it would be possible so okay I I think though that the um overall Concept in Target is that it this would

0:41:16support the kind of work that we're doing in the Environmental Services area and um these kinds of Target I looked at the targets one by one and it seemed to me like um they pretty much did that uh with a couple of exceptions um which um see where'd they go anyway it looked to me like that was

0:41:42pretty much much what that was doing and we already have several resolutions in that area so this is just supportive of that as as I saw it so I just would like to have additional information or some of these goals although very uh desirable may not be achievable and I

0:42:02wasn't certain what the consequences would be of selecting an unachievable goal was right I think though the um the opposite of this is that we put all our money into highways as I saw it I'm willing to support it I just didn't know where these numerical goals came from so I'm I'm okay I'm

0:42:21willing to table this so for future information to speak on this um campaign um so with that we will move on since we've adopted the rest of the items on our consent calendar to the public hearing agenda number six which I think many of you tonight are here to speak on behalf of or at

0:42:51least hear how um it unfolds tonight so that and bear with me um so tonight um for item number six we're here to hear the appeal of a Planning Commission decision to approve a conditional use permit to allow an accessory living unit larger than 750 square feet and in front

0:43:15of a primary living unit at 812 Pomona Avenue a new primary living unit would be built behind the existing single family home and the existing home would be used as an accessory living unit uh construction of the new primary living unit does not require a conditional use permit

0:43:38so at this time the the council will hear testimony regarding an appeal of the decision approving the conditional use permit to allow the accessory dwelling unit um larger than 750 square feet and in front of a primary living unit at 812 Pomona Avenue um and I've I'm repeating myself here so

0:44:00I would like to take the opportunity to outline the process for this evening's public hearing after opening the public hearing I will request a 10-minute presentation from staff following the staff presentation the council will hear a 10-minute presentation by the appellant and a

0:44:1710-minute presentation by the applicant at the conclusion of the presentations we will hear from anyone who has signed up to speak with the city clerk so if you have not submitted a speaker card please do so remarks will be limited to three minutes per person um although you don't have to use your

0:44:36full three minutes you're you're welcome to secede your time after the public has spoken I will then provide staff a representative of the applicant and the appellant each five minutes to respond to comments after everyone has had an opportunity to speak at the public

0:44:52hearing I will seek a motion to clear to close the public hearing um so with that I um if I can just make a comment I need to recuse myself from this item unfortunately the city attorneys advised me uh having a close family member who owns property within the noticing area I

0:45:11won't be voting or commenting on this so I'm going to leave the room now and thank you thank you for for stepping down council member benicini in light of that potential conflict and as soon as she ensconces herself away so she does not influence us um we'll begin the public hearing

0:45:36so with that um would could I please call Mr Moss planning senior planner planner to make a presentation good evening mayor Chang members of the council I'm Sean Moss senior planner as you can see on the slide the property at 812 Pomona Avenue is 10 000 square feet it contains a 955 square foot

0:46:08residence that was built in 1921 and a one-car garage sits behind the existing house the El Cerrito zoning ordinance allows second units which are also known as accessory living units and in-law units Etc up to 750 square feet by right in all residential zones provided they are

0:46:29less than 40 percent of the square footage of the primary unit on the same property the Planning Commission May approve a conditional use permit to allow second units up to 1200 square feet and 75 percent of the square footage of the primary living unit the zoning ordinance requires that

0:46:48second units are located behind the primary living unit but exceptions are allowed with an administrative use permit the El Cerrito zoning ordinance complies with all requirements of state law regarding second units in 2003 this California legislature passed AB 1866

0:47:08which requires that cities allow second units by right provided they meet objective standards and that are established in the zoning ordinance so on November 3rd 2010 the applicant submitted an application for conditional use permit to allow a second unit larger

0:47:25than 750 square feet in front of a primary living unit the use permit was necessitated by the proposal to build a new primary living unit on the rear half of the lot however the proposed new primary living unit meets all of the the zoning requirements of the RS5 zoning District including the

0:47:47setback requirements and is not a subject and what did not require use permit and it's not a subject of this appeal the use permit is required due to the size and the location of the existing home which would be used as an in-law unit the RS5 zoning District allows a maximum

0:48:08lot coverage of 50 percent under the proposed project the proposed lot coverage is approximately 40 percent as part of the the project the applicant would be required to file a deed restriction with the county recorder's office that would state that would require that the unit be kept as a

0:48:27second unit it would require that the applicant or that the property owner lived in one of the two units at all times and that the the units not be sold as separate entities um the Planning Commission considered the project on December 15th and approved the use permit on a unanimous

0:48:47vote of the four members that of the Planning Commission that were present an appeal of the decision was filed by grace and Scott Bishop on January 3rd of this year in the appellants um appeal letter they state three reasons for appealing the planning commission's decision those reasons are

0:49:06that the public notice for the Planning Commission meeting was inadequate that the um the size of the existing home is inappropriate is too large for a second unit and that the location of the existing home is inappropriate for a second unit the notice of the Planning Commission

0:49:23meeting was mailed to all Property Owners within 300 feet of 812 Pomona on December 3rd 2010 prior to the Planning Commission meeting as required by state law the notice accurately describes the reason for uh for the conditional use permit the notice used the language of

0:49:42the zoning code particularly and fulfilled the city's legal requirement to distribute an accurate hearing notice the public notice did not mention the proposed new primary living unit because as stated that does not require conditional use permit and again is not

0:49:59a subject of this appeal staff received concerns regarding the notice and additional language was added to the notice that was that was distributed for this public hearing which clarified some things and it emphasized that the proposed new unit does not require a conditional use

0:50:21permit and meets all of the zoning requirements the the size of the existing house is consistent with other accessory living units that have been approved by the Planning Commission the Planning Commission approved the use permit with a condition that would prohibit the unit

0:50:38from being expanded as long as it is used as as an approved second unit the zoning ordinance purposely gives flexibility to the Planning Commission in approving the size and location of second units this is done in order to meet the city and the state's housing

0:50:55goals in regards to Second units the location of the of the second unit is is appropriate because it is an existing it's the location of an existing living unit in addition it preserves the existing relationship of the property to the street if the if the project were modified to build the

0:51:18existing unit I'm sorry to build the proposed unit on the rear of the property while demolishing the existing unit it would be completely Allowed by right but it would dramatically alter the the relationship of the property to the street and the neighborhood um there's also precedent for this

0:51:35conditional use permit the Planning Commission approved a similar use permit in 2007 at 831 Galvin that project involved a using an existing 800 square foot residence on the front of the property as a second unit on a 10 794 square foot lot the proposed project at 812 Pomona

0:51:59complies with the policies of the El Cerrito General plan the general plan specifically contains policies that encourage development of diverse housing types including second units as well as the provision preservation of existing neighborhood features in scale the

0:52:15project is exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act and the public hearing was noticed in accordance with state law that concludes my presentation and I can answer any questions that you might have I have one quick question the graphic that was distributed in our

0:52:33packet and the text suggests the lot is 200 feet deep what is the width because the graphic that's in here suggests that the width is 60 feet uh the the yes the the blood I believe it's just um I believe it's just shorter than 60 feet wide to um it's it's 50 like 58 feet wide or

0:52:57something like that okay because last time I checked that would multiply out to much larger than 10 000 square feet so I was just curious why 10 000 square feet was used as a lot size um it's a lot is exactly 10 000 square feet if you let me actually walk to this

0:53:10side sure what um is not completely like a yeah it's not rectangular so on the county records record the um the lot size as exactly 10 000 square feet and the frontage on the street is the frontage on the screen on the street on that diagram appears to be um 50 feet in change plus eight and a

0:53:37half feet and and the rear in the rear looks to be about the same about 50 feet yeah okay thank you let me just so the county recorded it at ten thousand square feet so that's what we'll use tonight yes thank you any other questions um with that thank you Sean we will have

0:54:01another opportunity to ask questions after we close the public hearing so now if I can please ask Mr luckenbill or a representative of the applicant to come present on the case [Applause] and you will have 10 minutes I I I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say here I I

0:54:34think the issue is not uh something to do with how we're going to build it or even what we're going to build it's the issue of are we allowed to do what the zoning and the building codes say we are so I don't know that I need all the 10 minutes to go there I'm willing to answer your questions I

0:54:58think it is 60 feet wide by the way the bigger the lot according to the maps that I looked at foreign I'm not the owner I'm the contractor so uh and the owners are present here and willing to speak so perhaps I'll yield sure thank you hi my name is Julio Kaplan and I'm uh

0:55:31the owner of the uh property along with my wife who's also present um we uh our current residents of El Cerrito we're moving planning to move to uh the salon build uh our house there and uh the main reason we elected this particular format for the project we look at various alternatives

0:55:54this one seemed to um make the most efficient use of what they're already allow for the construction of uh our current project is to build a to plan a prefabricated house which are very green and very efficient um and so that's part of the reason for having a separate uh

0:56:17he's there and um other than that the footprint the height which is single story and so on seemed to have the least impact and fit uh the best in our opinion with existing neighborhood in terms of impact on the neighborhood I think the total footage of the project

0:56:43is certainly no larger smaller in fact than could be built without the use permit rearranging things for instance extending the current house and building something in the back as the accessory unit um it has much less impact in various other ways the construction than that

0:57:02project would have its single story that probably could be two stories we looked at actually a lot of these Alternatives but they seemed like the least impact and the best use of the current neighborhood as well as one of The Greener ways of building the new structure

0:57:21yeah did you consider just taking down the existing unit the 955 square foot and and just building a new just leaving it as just a primary residence yes we did consider that as as one of the Alternatives um we our interest actually having the accessory unit we have watched uh

0:57:48several of our neighbors as they grow older uh have made very good use of people you know helping them out in living in an accessory unit in fact one of our neighbors had to build one for the purpose so we thought that was a very good idea looking forward to our older

0:58:05age as we live there and in terms of doing that it seemed like a much better use of what's there more economical and more efficient to make use of what's there rather than try to tear it down and build from scratch well and I might I might add that the price we paid for this property which

0:58:26was at a very high point makes it unaffordable for us to tear down that unit so and it's a strange little thing anyway it's it's about 750 square feet of usable square footage because apparently they tacked on these little strips on the front and then on the back

0:58:45so our plan in fact at the moment is to use that for our own offices so we won't even be renting it so it's it just doesn't make any Financial sense to tear it down I mean if that's really the case and this was a poor choice of property and I'm sure that some developer would

0:59:04be thrilled with it because it's big any other questions yeah yeah I I have one additional question um it's my understanding this that this lot being at ten thousand square feet can be subdivided into two five thousand square foot Lots did you consider that it would only take a minor modification

0:59:25to your current layout that was presented for that to be a a potential outcome is that something you did consider you know what we actually talked about that some and um that's a very appealing choice to us because we don't have any desire to own more property than we need to

0:59:46um so that might be a way to do that but in the meantime that would require yet more and we're we're in the process right now of moving to try to sell our primary residence so but but it is one of the options you did consider and is still an option that you would consider

1:00:03uh is is essentially subdividing the parcel and putting a second home of prop of approximately the same size in the back lot we have considered in the past it's not we're not actively considering that now but we have considered that as one of the uh possibilities that we could apply

1:00:22for originally as I said at the moment our plan is really to try to create a residence with an attach not an attached in accessory building thank you so okay no question no further questions right now I think now we can now take comments from the public and each

1:00:44speaker will have three minutes oh no I'm sorry the pellet I'm sorry I skipped a step sorry um if the pellet if the Bishops could please um Step Up you have now um also 10 minutes to make a presentation about your appeal [Music] good evening council members thank you

1:01:08for your dedication and service to our city and for your time this evening actually the letter I got in the mail talking about this evening said I'd have 15 minutes so I'm hoping I can get through everything I plan to say as you know but for the benefit of those

1:01:23here who may not the zoning ordinance says under chapter 19.34.0.0 required findings for use permits findings for appeal a use permit shall only be granted if the zoning administrator or Planning Commission finds that the proposal is submitted modified or conditioned conforms to all

1:01:45of the following criteria as well as to any other special findings required for approval of use permits in specific zoning districts there's three items number one the location size design and operating characteristics of the proposed development will be harmonious and

1:02:02compatible with and will not adversely affect the livability or appropriate development of abutting properties in the surrounding neighborhood number two the location and design of The Proposal will provide a convenient and functional living working shopping or Civic environment that would be an

1:02:19attractive amenity for the city number three The Proposal is consistent with the purposes of the district where it is located and conforms in all significant respects with the El Cerrito General plan and with any other applicable plan adopted by the city council

1:02:34upon the planning commission's decision on December 15th to approve a conditional use permit to allow an accessory unit larger than 750 feet in front of a primary unit or the redesignation of a 955 square foot single-family home in order to allow a second home in excess of two

1:02:51thousand square feet to be built in the backyard some of us went door to door to dozens of Neighbors the misleading language in the notice mailed although we are told was written to code and legally acceptable was confusing and deceptive this has been demonstrated in two ways

1:03:10number one the senior planner publicly apologized at the hearing that the language used in the notice was confusing number two the second note is sent for the appeal had added language that painted a much clearer picture of the actual proposal the reaction of the neighborhood once

1:03:27properly informed was shock outrage and confusion particularly to those who had received the original notice and interpreted its meaning entirely differently we are told that 71 notices were mailed to neighbors within 300 feet of the project at this point we have signatures of

1:03:45nearly 50 neighbors who oppose this project which is over two-thirds of the number of neighbors notified some neighbors are present tonight to support this appeal and I'd like everyone who's here to support to just stand for a moment so we can do a quick count thank you

1:04:08I think it's about 20.

1:04:10we're going to quit count there are serious inconsistencies that we feel staff overlooked number one the size of the accessory unit is over 200 feet larger than the maximum allowed per the zoning ordinance and number two the placement of the accessory unit is not correctly located

1:04:28as it's on the street Frontage there are a number of significant impacts to the neighbors should this proposed development occur and we respectfully disagree with the findings for approval with regard to the proposed development being harmonious and compatible and

1:04:45adversely affecting the livability of abutting properties in the surrounding neighborhood location the location of the accessory unit is not harmonious and compatible an accessory unit is only permitted at the rear of a property as per the zoning ordinance this logical and well thought

1:05:01out code preserves backyard open space and privacy to adjoining Neighbors backyards add quality to a neighborhood for these reasons the location of the accessory unit at the front of the property does not provide harmonious and compatible environment the location of the accessory unit does

1:05:21adversely affect the livability of abutting properties and the surrounding neighborhood a two thousand square foot home covering most of the backyard at 812 Pomona which is the result if the existing home at the street Frontage is allowed to be called accessory has a much greater

1:05:36impact than a 750 square foot structure would be in the rear yard it would significantly decrease the use and enjoyment of surrounding backyards and for that reason the location of the accessory unit does adversely affect the livability of the seven abutting properties as well as the surrounding

1:05:54neighborhood size the size of the accessory unit is not harmonious and compatible an accessory unit by definition in the zoning ordinance States quote the maximum floor area of a second unit shall not exceed 750 square feet end quote this is to ensure there's a buffer space between

1:06:12neighboring backyards and more than 200 square feet in excess why would it be necessary and allowed to have this accessory unit exceed the code's maximum by 27 percent for this reason the size of the accessory unit is not harmonious and compatible the size of the accessory unit does

1:06:32adversely affect the livability of abutting properties and the surrounding neighborhood the intention of the accessory unit is to provide income to the owners as a rental or so we understood until five minutes ago they said there it was going to be offices but it could be rented at

1:06:44some point in the future there have been no stated special needs or requirements by the owners to justify why it would be necessary for a home nearly a thousand square feet in size to be required as an accessory unit the larger the rental the greater the likelihood additional occupants could

1:07:01live there which could result in street parking congestion and additional noise disturbances to abutting properties in the surrounding neighborhood for this reason the size of the accessory unit does adversely affect the livability of a budding properties and the surrounding neighborhood

1:07:16design the design of the accessory unit is not harmonious and compatible the zoning ordinance States accessory units are designed to be in the rear yard of a property and they are designed to be smaller structures to preserve yards and maintain buffer space with

1:07:31adjoining Neighbors this project violates the design objective of an accessory unit as stated in the zoning ordinance for this reason the design of the accessory unit is not harmonious and compatible the design of the accessory unit does adversely affect the livability of a

1:07:47budding properties and the surrounding neighborhood seven abutting Property Owners would have an enormous structure of over two thousand square feet just over the fence greatly reducing the quiet use and enjoyment of our backyards if the project is allowed it sets a

1:08:02dreadful precedent upon future future property owners in the surrounding neighborhood who would also be adversely affected for this reason the design of the accessory unit does adversely affect the livability of a budding properties in surrounding neighborhood operating characteristics

1:08:18the operating characteristics of the accessory unit are not harmonious and compatible primary residences are Street Frontage properties which promote homeowners to get to know their neighbors and provide an imperative influence on social interaction within the community

1:08:31for this reason the operating characteristics of the accessory unit are not harmonious and compatible leading characteristics of the accessory unit does adversely affect the livability of abutting properties and the surrounding neighborhood homeowners favor living amongst other

1:08:47homeowners not renters an accessory living unit at the street Frontage hides the homeowner in the rear and potentially weakens Community interaction and involvement for this reason the operating characteristics of the accessory unit does adversely affect the livability of a budding properties

1:09:03and surrounding neighborhood number two with regards to the location design of the proposed of The Proposal providing a convenient and functional living working shopping or Civic environment that would be an attractive amenity for the city we believe these can be accomplished

1:09:20easily within the codes of the zoning coordinates the property owners have not provided a reason need a requirement for why it is necessary so that the accessory unit be oversized and incorrectly placed on the lot as an example during the appeal hearing on March 16 2009 for a conditional use

1:09:39permit for an accessory unit greater than 750 square feet for the property at 782 Pomona the owners Illustrated the special requirements to justify the need for additional square footage as it was necessary to accommodate a relative in a wheelchair who is to occupy the unit

1:09:55floor plan diagrams with circles showing 5 foot turning radiuses the space required for a wheelchair to change directions were Illustrated in several places showing the need for additional space this was a valid justification for why this accessory unit needed to be

1:10:09oversized we feel we've not been given a valid reason for why this accessory unit is required to be 200 square feet larger than the code's maximum during this appeal hearing on March 16 2009 council member Lyman stated quote 750 square feet is large enough for a

1:10:28two-bedroom apartment end quote the owners have stated their opinion that they believe the existing second bedroom is quote too small to be used as a functional bedroom end quote however that is merely an opinion the existing house is a legal two-bedroom house as

1:10:44per the county records again backyards add quality to a neighborhood and for these reasons we request the property owners construct an accessory living unit within the codes of the zoning ordinance being a 750 square foot structure in the rear of the yard with the proposal being consistent with

1:11:03the purposes of the district Works located and conforming in all significant respects with the El Cerrito General plan and with any other applicable plan adopted by the city council we respectfully disagree we believe the general plan should be carefully considered with the following

1:11:20key principles kept in mind the general plan is designed to improve the quality of development and long-term fiscal health of the city so that it can remain an attractive place to live and work emphasis will be on impacts of development increase residential development or

1:11:37allowed must be done with care in order to enhance neighborhoods the preservation and enhancement of natural features including open space will be a high priority for the city development should contribute to the fiscal health of the city while minimizing adverse impacts

1:11:58a note on California state requirements in 2003 legislator create legislature created AB 1866 requiring cities to allow second units as by right as long as they comply with objective standards established by the city's zoning ordinance a note on the El Cerrito General plan

1:12:18policy land use 1.1 of the general plan promotes neighborhood preservation and encourages accessory living units staff states that quote the proposed primary residence would be located behind the existing structure and would have limited visibility from the street

1:12:32visibility is not the issue the negative impacts of invasion of privacy and diminished buffer space between neighbors is the issue which is non-conforming to the codes of the zoning ordinance and violates the general plan as it does not quote improve the quality of development with

1:12:48regard to surrounding Neighbors policies land use 1.5 and 1.6 refer to promoting suitability housing located housing and services for all age groups within the city and encouraging diverse housing types accessory unit at 812 Pomona does not need to be oversized by 200 square feet

1:13:10nor does it need to be located at the front of the property in order to satisfy policies land use 1.1 1.5 and 1.6 as stated in the general plan a note on precedent staff has suggested that because the Planning Commission approved a use permit in 2007 for 831 Galvin Drive

1:13:29which is an was an 801 square foot home on a lot of about 10 000 square feet that precedent has already been set however there were three major circumstances in that case that differ from what we have here number one 831 Galvin exceeded the maximum square footage of an accessory

1:13:46unit by 51 feet h12 Pomona exceeds it by 205 square feet number two there were half as many adjoining property owners to 831 Galvin as compared to the seven adjoining properties around 812 Pomona and number three the file on record at the city for the use primitive 831 Galvin shows a

1:14:06total of one neighbor who objected currently we have almost 50 signatures in opposition from Neighbors surrounding 812 Pomona there was no appeal filed for 831 Galvin proposed Solutions we have two alternative options that we would like to provide El Cerrito with that would

1:14:26provide El Cerrito with the Diversified housing stock which conforms to the general plan we would like the kaplans to achieve their intended goals with the use of their property while minimizing the impact to neighbors and believe that the following two Alternatives within the

1:14:40zoning ordinance would provide benefits to everyone option one would be to add on to the existing home to create the 2200 square foot home the kaplan's desire as their primary residence and build a 750 square foot accessory structure in the backyard keeping the existing interface between

1:14:57the property and the street and neighborhood is consistent with the goals and policies of the general plan it maintains and preserves existing neighborhood compatibility it also provides a Bay View to the kaplans and greatly reduces the impact to adjoining Neighbors

1:15:12option two would be to demolish the existing home and build the home they desire on the street Frontage with the Bay View additionally they could construct a 750 square foot accessory structure in the rear yard in this solution the kaplans create and build the exact home they desire and

1:15:30would also be able to collect income from the accessory unit in the rear yard or use it as an office these two solutions will achieve the attentions of the El Cerrito zoning ordinance and keeps with the general plan by the addition of a rightful housing unit and creating diversity in

1:15:44our housing stock these two solutions will achieve the goals of the kaplans by providing them with the primary residence in the neighborhood they desire closer to more services and El Cerrito's commercial Corridor while also having an accessory living unit these two solutions would will achieve

1:16:00the goals of California as per assembly Bill 1866 which encourages the creation of second units which provides an important and valuable source of additional housing and finally these two solutions will achieve the lessening of impact to the surrounding neighbors so as to maintain

1:16:17privacy open space and enjoyment of backyards thank you council members for considering the appeal we hope that the decision of the council reflects the strong feelings of the many neighbors who you're gathered here tonight the many who could not attend and the nearly 50 neighbors who sign

1:16:35letters and petitions objecting to the project as planned thank you thank you any questions at this time we will have another opportunity later no questions at this time if we can please ask for speakers on this topic yes we have 17 speakers this evening the first is Steve Crawford

1:17:03I'm probably just left okay the next speaker is Bob Bloomberg [Applause] [Music] good evening my name is Bob blundberg my wife Ginny and I live a half a block away from the subject property on Pomona Court we've lived and raised a family here for more than 30 years

1:17:40and we're here tonight not because this project affects us directly but because I believed it indirectly affects us the neighborhood and indeed the entire city this conflict here tonight is a classic case of competing interests on the one hand there is the desire of the property

1:18:00owner to build an accessory unit on his property in Conformity with the city's interests in providing additional housing on the other hand there are in the interests of the surrounding property owners who want to maintain the abutting open space that they now enjoy

1:18:18both sides have legitimate interests each section that applies to accessory units wisely sets limits in an effort to balance the interest of these two sites it allows accessory units but it places restrictions on size and positioning of the lot and even on the number of bedrooms

1:18:40these limits are intended to achieve a balance between the competing interests they should not be casually violated except for special circumstances and where there is minimal negative impact on the surroundings this project as proposed is not balanced in spite of great efforts to force the

1:19:03existing principal residents to fit the definition of an accessory unit it is not an accessory unit it fails on almost every count here we have an example of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole it just won't fit approval of this project as proposed would Grant every benefit to the

1:19:25property owner to the detriment of every one of the surrounding and abutting properties in addition it would turn it would set a terrible precedent for the neighborhood and I believe for the entire city limits should not be set aside simply to support the convenience or for the

1:19:43financial benefit of the owner or because an existing structure just happens to exist and when the Groundswell of neighbors feel harmed by the project and objective is the case here tonight as evidenced by the 50-plus signatures on the petition and the neighbors that

1:20:01are present here tonight when uh when the city when when all these things come together City officials as well as the property owners should take special note I think there is an easy solution in keeping with both the letter and the attempt of the code rather than approve a plan which is

1:20:25forced upon all the neighbor and neighboring properties against their wishes I believe the council should ask the property owner to go back to the drawing board meet with a builder and come up with one of the many options available to them well neither side may get everything

1:20:41that it wants if the two sides work together in good faith I think there are many good alternatives if I could please ask you to wrap up thank you thank you I respectfully request the council to please reject the proposed plan and ask the property owner to come up with a more fair and balanced

1:20:58proposal thank you very much for your time thank you very much next speaker please and if folks can as you're reading you know it's hard to keep your eye on the light but the yellow means you have one more minute thank you next speaker Connie Miller good evening I'm Connie Miller and I

1:21:21live at [address removed] and I'm here to support the appeal thank you next speaker Jenny blumberg good evening council members my name is Jenny blumberg I've lived at [address removed] for over 30 years and thank you for your time and attention regarding this appeal I previously submitted a

1:21:53letter which is in the record the El Cerrito General plan for the Eastern residential area preserves the predominantly single-family neighborhoods in their current land uses it does contemplate the addition of some accessory units in this RS zoning area the plan describes these

1:22:13units as small Studios or one-bedroom apartments built within single-family houses or in small Cottages in rear yard areas the code sets size and placement restrictions that appear designed to keep accessory units to this concept the applicant is requesting to redefine

1:22:33an existing two-bedroom home into an accessory unit this is not in keeping with either the code definition of an accessory unit or the spirit of the general plan the result is going to be two houses each typical of those in the neighborhood on one lot this is how the site development

1:22:54should be considered and those are the rules that should be followed thank you Michaela Sullivan Joyce Jennings hi I'm Joyce Jennings and I live at [address removed] right around the corner from the property and I just want to offer my support to this appeal Julie sorby

1:23:33hi we live at [address removed] and I support the appeal Patty Mead hello I live on Stockton and I think that what I want to say is that just because something is deep legal doesn't make it the right thing to do and we have a very unique neighborhood that will be destroyed by this

1:24:01so I support and I find my colleagues here much more eloquent than I am thank you thank you Tom morgenson my name is Tom mogensen and I am at [address removed] first I would like to thank the city councilors and mayor Chang for your times long and stretched out I'm a high school teacher so I

1:24:32always like to start with a quote or something to that effect Socrates he says government is run by those who show up and I love the Simplicity of that and I think it has or it deals with this situation quite well it stated in the paper we got back from the city hall

1:24:51that we were duly notified we were duly notified between the holidays three of the seven Commissioners planning Commissioners were not present um and there was need for clarification in the um you know second notice um you know a primary resident becomes an accessory living unit larger than 720 or

1:25:1550 square feet uh in front of a non-existent new primary living unit of 2 000 square feet six six it works out to six bedrooms in a uh residential low density residential neighborhood um we now have a variance conditional use permit a deed restriction and Sewer

1:25:38easement all to get this to work or these are barriers that we have to get over um what is the purpose of City Zoning and building codes if they're not upheld we have invested in the city of El Cerrito and El Cerrito needs to demonstrate the solid investment of its

1:26:03citizens um you know to send confusing notice of a hearing does not service well are we just going through the motions or do these notices mean something uh El Sarita should be proud of its citizens for taking interest in preserving the character of this town uh the project about seven properties

1:26:26and many more families so it should be thought about it it shouldn't just be uh not or not considered properly um you know we need you know we're the citizens of uh El Cerrito need to move really carefully uh so I urge to reject this project uh as it stands I would also like to

1:26:49talk about the keep referring to this as a single story it actually is going up 16 feet I had one point that is two feet shy of two stories uh they call the building green it's being driven across country drive a building across country is not a green thing um I'm also very leery because if you look

1:27:15at the floor plan that new structure can easily be divided into rental units and this is not a rental area we want to preserve that and the final thing I'd like to say is we have contacted the kaplans we've given them all our information I gave them my uh what do you call the email address and I

1:27:37have not heard from them I would like to see the outcome of this that we talk about how to develop and then see if we can't build something that'll satisfy everyone's needs thank you very much thank you for your comments Ellen deach hi my name is Ellen deich I live at [address removed]

1:28:00Stockton Avenue and I want to thank you mayor Chang and the rest of the council members my first speaking in front of the city council I purchased my property 16 plus years ago because the configuration of the lot was because I'd like the configuration of the lot as well as I like the house

1:28:21lots are large in El Cerrito and are definite attraction over smaller lights Lots like those in neighboring towns like Albany for example I invested in this city because it offered small town appeal and land for privacy and Recreation I am a recipient of the Sundown Shady

1:28:41award for beautifying El Cerrito my neighbors two doors down have also been awarded this prize Stockton Avenue is a busy Street privacy and outdoor activities take place in the back it is my understanding that city codes say that the 750 accessory living unit is to be located in the back of a

1:29:02primary living unit this would offer a less conspicuous building allowing everyone including new owners and uncongested backyard I am very concerned about the devaluation of my property this is my investment I am not opposed to change in growth but I do believe this is an

1:29:24inappropriate project from the incomprehensible flyer which no one understood to the oversized conditional use permit granted without telling the whole story I believe the plans although it's not on the table should include the larger home being built in the backyard because it's part

1:29:44of a whole project to the effect it has on the entire neighborhood and the character of El Cerrito I oppose this project and we did try and create a map to at least give a visual of some of the people we were able to find we spent a lot of time trying to notify people in

1:30:03the neighborhood of what was going on there are some elderly people there and some other kinds of people that did not want to show up but I did not run into anyone that was for the project thank you very much Paul Jacobs Grady Carson after Paul Jacobs hi my name is Paul Jacobs I live at [address removed]

1:30:30Ashbury and I support this appeal thank you Grady Carson Syed moradi my name is [address removed] I'm just supporting deputy I think Jeff Nale hi I'm Jeff Nall I live at [address removed] I don't live necessarily near this property I live across Stockton about four houses

1:31:16down um next door to a relatively recently constructed three-story house um and recently that house was given an accessory living unit oversized permit um it's been used as a split level rental property um I'd say for seven years up until the current owners moved in there

1:31:48I understand the goals of the city and state are to increase the housing stock I also understand that this is a low density neighborhood and I'm just concerned that uh Property Owners might be motivated by rental income and profit I don't know the owners from what I

1:32:11heard tonight I'm touched by their stated purpose of creating a place for them to live and grow old together I am concerned about setting precedent of large accessory living units adversely adversely affecting the neighborhood and I'm very concerned about maintaining the quality of the

1:32:33neighborhood you know once these things are built they don't go away I live next door to one and let's just take our time to meet everybody's needs the best way possible foreign s [Applause] I'm Connie Williams I submitted some written comments today which I think you

1:33:02would have and I just wanted to make three points about the proposed resolution that's before you I think they've been hit on by others tonight already but uh briefly they are that the precedent that is cited on Galvin is really not comparable because of the way

1:33:22that it's situated on the street and the impacts that are you know basically next door neighbors in that case versus you know there's seven abutting properties and I think that this uh you know the large building in the backyard of that lot would affect even more properties around

1:33:45as far as what they have to look right at every day even if they're not directly abutting um another point is that you know given the number of petitions I think more residents would have appeared on December 15th than did as it was five appeared which was more than the number

1:34:04of commission members that appeared that day um and that takes place takes care of my third Point too so thanks very much and I urge you to not adopt the uh the resolution to deny the appeal and to I do support the appeal thanks thank you I have two remaining speaker slips the

1:34:29first is Kali nimbaltz hi um I'm Colleen Neville so I live at [address removed] um in the next block from this proposed project I'm here to support the appeal of the project my concern is with the precedent that's being set with um redefining an existing unit as a secondary unit it says here that

1:35:06the Planning Commission May approve a conditional use permit to allow second unit up to 1200 square feet and or 75 percent of the square footage of the primary unit I'm concerned that somebody with a house we we already had a precedent at uh at Galvin Street of

1:35:27a primary unit that was 800 square feet being redefined as a secondary unit and in this case it's 955 square feet being redefined I'm concerned that it could go up to 1200 square foot existing house being uh redefined as a as a secondary unit with an even larger house being built in the

1:35:53back I think that I think that sort of goes against the um you know my Layman's understanding of of what land use in El Cerrito is all about so I'm sympathetic with the the people who are behind this project but I um I have to say that um I support the appeal and I think that we

1:36:21need to give it a little bit more consideration so thank you for your time thank you loudspeaker slip is Michelle westling hi my name is Michelle westling and I'm also a neighbor I live at [address removed] which is on the other side of Stockton about three blocks away so I'm

1:36:46not um I don't live right next door but my daughter's day cares about a house away so I am indirectly affected and familiar with the neighborhood we walk there all the time so as far as the possible rental at some point you know I wouldn't be thrilled about additional

1:37:01traffic and parking in that area but [Music] um we love the neighborhood it's a great neighborhood and we actually have a small cottage studio just one room in the back of our yard and we love it it's a great additional space gives you options it makes backyards more charming

1:37:19and I do think they increase property values um but in this case I do support the appeal and I believe that the property owners have been presented with really positive Alternatives that can still work for them as well as for the surrounding neighbors thank you

1:37:36thank you very much and with that and no other speakers at this time anyone else in the audience like a chance um sure if you could you can come up you have three minutes and then if you can fill out a card after thank you afterwards afterwards you can do that thank you I just I'm Dennis Bell and I

1:37:58lived a block about a block away at um Stockton and Pomona and I just want to say that I support the appeal great thank you very much um so at this point we are at the point where we'll have five minutes for each of the for staff uh for the the project proponent as well as the Appellate to

1:38:21respond to comments during that have come up during this public hearing uh period so I guess with that if I could um ask the the project proponent the luckenbills to to come up or I'm sorry I'm sorry I have staff statement at this point sorry thank you um I'll just add a couple things

1:38:48um that came up as a result of comments um the first thing is I just would refer the council to the um since the findings for um that are required for a conditional use permit were mentioned I would just refer the council to the the findings that the Planning Commission

1:39:04did make in their resolution approving the the use permit um the commission felt that since um the uh existing unit which is being proposed as a second unit since it's existing that it was uh harmonious and compatible with the the neighborhood um since it's it's

1:39:25um stood in the neighborhood since 1921.

1:39:28um and um another thing that came up is is the the height requirement of the property um the proposed uh primary residence does meet all of the the zoning requirements including height it is proposed as a as a one-story structure under the the height requirements of the

1:39:47zoning code it could be a two-story structure that fit within the building envelope that's allowed by the zoning code um and um I think that's that's all that I would add so unless the council has any questions um that concludes my comments we'll save questions till I think we're gonna

1:40:04I actually have questions that may uh just the testimony of the to the Appellate and the and the applicant so I'd like to okay I don't I mean I'd like to get some clarity um clarifying questions so Focus yeah what is the um if there was an addition added to the

1:40:23front of the existing household what was is there a limit on what that Edition could be um there's no square footage limit per se you would the they would be limited to 50 lock coverage um so that that would be the footprint of all the structures on the lot cannot

1:40:41be more cannot exceed 50 of the lot area um so that poses that as well as the setback requirements kind of confine the um the building envelope yeah and and uh to that end that that existing structure if the if the property if this was less than a ten thousand square foot parcel

1:41:01then then this consideration subdividing into two five thousand square foot Parcels would not be something they could consider but since that is something they could consider conceivably they could expand the the existing structure and build a structure on the back lot how large would the back

1:41:17lot would there be a limit on the square footage of the Backlot at that time um it would be the same the same limits that I just mentioned the the 50 people they could put a 2500 square foot house on the 5 000 square foot back lot is that correct that would be a good

1:41:33approximation great thank you so what approvals if they wanted to subdivide that one lot into two lots like that what approvals do they need um they would need to record a tentative parcel map and subdivisions of of four Lots or less are considered by the the subdivision committee

1:42:01um which is Planning Commission um it's it's a committee that's made up of two Commissioners as well as the city manager and the city engineer so the the requirements for tentative parcel maps are somewhat less than for larger subdivisions um and and obviously that map would have

1:42:19to meet all the requirements of both the zoning ordinance and the subdivision ordinance so if so if they did that they would in effect get the two two houses that they wanted only there would be no connection between them that's correct and they could be sold separately

1:42:41and what's happening with the driveway because I can't quite figure that out um the existing driveway would would remain um so right now the existing driveway goes back to the the existing garage and then it kind of make turns a corner and kind of it's it's the same piece of

1:42:59pavement but it kind of turns into a patio that's behind the house so that would remain as it is so how would the rear house be accessed the the oh the rear how well the the garage um the existing garage would be expanded to a two-car garage and that would be the garage for both that it would serve

1:43:23as the garage for the new um residents and you can do that within that definition of splitting the one lot into two you cannot if if the Lots were split into two there would have to be a total of there would have to be two covered parking spaces on each lot and how do you access the one in the

1:43:44back um they would it would have to uh some sort of access easement would have to be recorded with the subdivision to ensure that that lot was always able to be accessed and and are there approvals required for that it would be recorded on the on the tentative parcel map

1:44:02it would just be part of the right into two okay thank you any further questions yeah I just want to clarify we wouldn't have a meeting of this type if um the existing structure is taken down and they wanted to build a single structure on that to the maximum say 5

1:44:29000 square feet if that's the formula they could buy that they could apply for that by right there is no P there is no approval process other than meeting the building code and getting a building permit correct that's correct okay thank you thank you so now if I can please call

1:44:50the the project proposers luckenbills you will have five minutes to respond thank you okay yeah um first I just want to say Tom where's Tom yeah I I actually emailed you that plan so I don't know what happened I I certainly did yeah right but I I ran right home and did it so maybe I got

1:45:16spam block sure and then um the 16-foot rise that people are talking about this may not be too important but is the rise in the property it's kind of cattywampus and so it kind of goes up on one corner but ironically this is all I really wanted to say we were trying to maintain

1:45:32preserve the Integrity of the neighborhood so that because one of our first thoughts was just to to add this prefab which is quite possible to the existing structure and I mean we could build a huge house on this and and that's our right because we own the property so we were trying to minimize

1:45:54everything by having no view by you know having a one-story structure and by sort of hiding in back of that structure that it's there so that we wouldn't destroy kind of the appearance of the neighborhood so it does come as a big surprise to us and of course something

1:46:14we will consider and look at what did you want to say who yeah I just uh wanted to um add to that too that uh looking at the the plot if we were to extend the house uh and possibly even build a two-story structure there um we could still build an additional structure in the back

1:46:37uh for the accessory unit and I don't quite understand this is something that I don't understand the the objection we're planning to have a garden area there which would seem to me to be far less intrusive to neighboring backyards than an accessory unit plus access to

1:46:58accessory unit probably yeah extending the driveway so um a lot of the objections that refer tonight have to do with it not being harmonious and it seems to me that the arguments reiterated all the things that we know already which is that it is bigger than 750 square feet that it is

1:47:22in the front and not in the back and uh that that was uh not uh according to regulations but in fact it is according to regulations and that's what they use permit that brought us here is uh is our mind so um so I think we're following that procedure and the regulations allow for that

1:47:42um so a couple of things that uh I want to mention on the uh positive side of what we are trying to do here is that we as my wife mentioned tried to avoid having two architecturally disparate pieces put together which is what gave us the idea of having these two houses separate

1:48:07rather than trying to join them in and build another structure in the back um and uh that most of the concerns that people have expressed about occupancy traffic and all that apply equally well if we build a house in the front and an accessory unit in the back so

1:48:31um again I don't quite understand why the objection is to that this specific form of the project as opposed to an alternative form with the same impacts on the neighborhood anything else you want to add I think so we we thought we were being very innovative apparently it was either too Innovative

1:48:48or the the time isn't isn't there okay thank you thank you very much now if I can ask for the I do have a couple minutes the architect for the proponent hi I I just I'm looking at the picture here and and I see this enormous green part in back of that lot and I think

1:49:11well that's a double lot and why can't they have two houses on it thank you so now I think we can move on to five minutes for the appellants to respond to comments uh to that most recent question why can't you have two houses on the lot we've not once said we are here to say there

1:49:40can't be two houses on the lot we wanted to make it clear that we're okay with that we're okay with having a second house in the backyard as an accessory unit which is defined as 750 square feet in the back and a big house in the front that's fine that's great I mean just to make clear

1:49:58we're not saying we don't want them to do and achieve their goals we just want them to do it within the zoning ordinance um I think that anyone can say that just about every existing house in El Cerrito is compatible with the neighborhood because it's existing I mean it's there

1:50:13it's been there since since it was built and and probably no previous home was ever there and of course it's compatible but the issue is where do you draw the line if this is 200 square feet larger than what's accepted then the next person applies and says well we only have a 1200 square

1:50:28foot house and the next guy says 15 and then it just goes on and on and we have homes crowding lots and we're hoping not to go that path um I think that uh we have tried to propose some Fair solutions that would benefit everyone and minimize the impact to neighbors that's one of the biggest

1:50:53concerns here the way they have their proposal now I'm sure you've seen the drawing of the large home in the backyard on the side properties because it's their side they only have a five foot setback requirement so for many of us whose backyards are on that fence it means a

1:51:09structure five feet over the fence and that's pretty invasive and that's a huge impact to several the properties around most of the seven adjoining properties um just to reiterate the the conditional use permit at 831 Galvin that was granted only had one objection

1:51:26the conditional use permit at 782 Pomona that was granted did not have any additional construction that was a unit that was made within the confines of the existing structure no add-on no additional structure it was just within the space that was there so this proposal has really an enormous negative

1:51:45impact to adjoining neighbors and there's a very very strong voice of the community here tonight as well as folks that couldn't come who are also in opposition of this so our main objective is to maintain space in the backyard which we believe is also the main objective of the zoning ordinance with

1:52:01regard to accessory units being in the back no more than 750 feet thank you okay with that could I have a motion to close the public hearing so move second all those in favor aye opposed abstention sounds like we're unanimous um um at this point we have opportunity for

1:52:26further comments and discussion by the council and um I'd invite any additional comments or questions at this point from okay could I ask um before we start ask the City attorney to make sure everybody understands about a public hearing we don't necessarily have to take up just

1:52:45the issues of the appeal of the three points of appeal correct this is like a new a new Planning Commission meeting so um I believe I'm answering your question by saying that City council's hearings of appeals are what's called de novo which means that the city council can

1:53:09consider all the evidence presented and can reach its own decision and is not bound by the decision of the Planning Commission just to address one sub Point since you mentioned three points I know that there's I just want to be clear that there are three findings that must

1:53:26be made in order to approve the conditional use permit and I realize also that the appellants have raised three primary points in their appeal I just want to be clear that you are not limited to the three points raised in the appeal but in order to approve the conditional use permits you would have

1:53:40to make the three findings and those are and support for those findings are laid out in the resolution that staff is prepared and presented so just wanted to be clear about that point okay thank you thanks thanks any any comments or questions at this time maybe

1:53:58um Council yeah I'll I'd like I'd like to start with a comment um I guess if we um uphold the appeal the applicant it potentially ends up building two 2500 square foot houses out there and and then the the appellants still have a 2000 plus square foot home in their backyard

1:54:32um if you say that again if we do not if we uphold appeal and and overturn the planning commission's action the the property owners have the ability to potentially go and subdivide the property and build two homes out there of twenty five thousand twenty five hundred square foot each and and the

1:54:54appellants end up with a large home in their backyard that could be two stories high and have even be more interested into their backyard um if we deny the appeal uh the the current project prevents the subdivision at least the way it's currently laid out prevents the

1:55:13subdivision of the of the property and provides housing stock that's single story potentially future Ada capacity compatibility and a small property in the front that that is usable for support in either case it appears that there is the potential for a 2500 square foot

1:55:36house in the green space that that is is there so I'm not certain that that our action tonight is necessarily going to stop the construction of a house that appears to be taking up public space or open space that these properties have enjoyed without compensation

1:55:56um you bought your house there was an open lot there and the Assumption was it would always be open I guess and and when this property exchanged hands it exchanged hands probably an exorbitant price because of the option the opportunity for larger development in

1:56:12that area so there's been um that open space has been priced and the kaplans have paid the price of that open space that you've enjoyed for so many years so I at some point in here the economics do weigh in and there has to be a an economic balance here um I do want to thank everybody for

1:56:36coming and and getting 48 people involved in this decision is fantastic um you know that type of involvement is should be commended and and applauded and the research that Miss Bishop has done is fantastic and I I really do appreciate all the effort that you put

1:56:55in there but I'm I'm trying to figure out how this appeal whichever way we we vote on it um really prevents a house in your backyard and and I think that's the Crux of what you your final sentence was you were trying to preserve the the Integrity of the backyard and I'm I'm just trying to

1:57:17figure out how that happens and so um I think the kaplans want to provide a structure at least their testimony tonight they want to provide the structure that does fit in to the to the area and their current proposal by not subdividing by putting in a one-story building

1:57:38seems to be a pretty good balance but if it's not good enough I'm not certain that any action we take tonight is a good action if there is opportunity for there to be additional dialogue and and discussion because frankly The Proposal that you've the two proposals you put forward Miss Bishop to

1:58:00um tear down and build a new one in the front or expand the existing one in the front may not be as economically viable as the proposal the kaplans have put together so therefore you may as they've alluded to themselves be driving them to sell the property to someone who does have the

1:58:19desire and wherewithal to subdivide this property long way of saying The Proposal that's on the table may be the least intrusive proposal that's out there and um by unilaterally opposing it you may be getting a proposal that we have very little say in that is not what you want either

1:58:43so I just don't I'm not certain that taking an action tonight benefits the appellants regardless of what act which action we take um and and I'm not certain I'm not certain what to do so I'm open for other discussion yes first of all I I concur with a lot council member Lyman

1:59:11has said and thank you all for coming out thank you all for um a very civil and professional presentation this is the way I I see it first of all I have read all the documents and information presented in the meeting packet obviously I'm here listening to testimony I also attended as the

1:59:30plannings liaison the Planning Commission meeting where this subject was taken up I've also visited the neighborhood and viewed the the uh the property at 812 Pomona and I think what makes it tough is property property rights issues are always not as easy as as something in the code

1:59:55or Theory 101 on property rights is it's nearly always involved in emotional and this is not uh This falls into that pattern it's in part because both sides really have aspects that are reasonable claims but uh cannot be at least in the context we're seeing cannot be accommodated at the

2:00:22accommodated at the same time and it's our role in the appeal process to make a decision between two competing positions and I feel the best way to do that is to to consider and possibly tie together the code requirements and applicable laws the acceptable exceptions

2:00:41the legal property rights the realistic conditions of the neighborhood in the best interests of the city in making that that decision so I I really think the issue is whether we allow an exception to the zoning code by issuance of a conditional use permit and an

2:00:58administrative use permit for a secondary unit over 750 square feet to be located in front of the property that's the issue before us uh some of the other comments here we've already talked about the size lot and it can be divided probably so long as it would meet the logistical uh necessities of a

2:01:21subdivision uh they could split the lot it's it's interesting because the code does indicate secondary unit in the back of the property uh the exception though can be granted by administrative use permit and so the code itself does allow for exceptions the secondary unit

2:01:49is called for not exceeds 750 square feet but the exception allows it to go to 1200 square feet or 70 percent of the primary unit whatever is less so um this code does allow us there's there's nothing in the code that says that the Planning Commission decision is not

2:02:09correct or it's illegal or however you want to say it uh I do agree to the certain extent that the code seems to be written with the idea that we have a a primary in front and a secondary and back it's not clear whether the code though took into consideration which is the

2:02:30unique part of this which there is an existing uh property in the front that they want to transform I think the code probably was was thinking that most situations would be new construction either we're going to build a new primary and we'll put a secondary in the

2:02:51back at the same time or the primary is in front and then one can be built later so I think that's something that we either have to sort out or at least take into consideration uh we talked about that the oh the conditional use permit by the way doesn't a conditional use permit does not

2:03:13operate under President it operates on a case-by-case basis that is what a conditional use permit is so um whatever was done in other parts of town may or may not apply but it does not have to support uh this action here is it sits on its own and of course we know tonight is not a

2:03:40review to approve or disapprove the design of the proposed new primary unit um that is a function of the building permit I will say the legal notice even though I agree wholeheartedly that it that it met the letter of the law the language was actually taken right

2:04:02out of the code uh however it it could have been we've had enough testimony here and I think from creditable people that say they were generally confused now that we're having the appeal and we didn't have to but because of the points brought up by the neighborhood we did expand on the

2:04:26definition uh we are having that hearing and so everybody is being heard everybody can present I would like though to consider whatever the outcome here that we may want to waive the the uh the appeal fee and refund it because of the confusion uh here's some other comments and then I'll

2:04:50I'll wrap up here what's it what I find interesting is the current house the proposed secondary unit has been in existence in 1921 and I'm assumed it has been remodeled and upgraded to some degree it it seems to be newly painted from when I went by it looks it looks pretty nice

2:05:10compared to some other houses around town that may not have had that same type of Maintenance and I'll also assume that it's one of the original houses in the area being built in 1921. therefore this is one of the structures that defines the neighborhood and has defined the

2:05:27neighborhood so I I think it's a stretch to say that it um at this house keeping it in its place is not a benefit to the community or not it does not contribute to the character of the community um okay the the proposal for the development I think this gets to what councilmember

2:05:57Lyman had said that both both structures are proposed this as a single story and keeps a relatively pro low profile and again the new primary unit could actually have been two stories without the need of conditional use permit so um they kept it at one story and that's

2:06:20fine there are uh by the way there are two-story structures within the neighborhood so then the two-story structure if it's ever built on that spot um would be in keeping at least with those structures that are in the neighborhood that have two stories and this is one that uh I found

2:06:40interesting when I went out there on Pomona Street near the project sides front lots that are that are facing Pomona there are separate adjacent Lots with houses behind them and I think you could see one there in other words not all the not all the properties on Pomona

2:06:59Street are this single Lot 10 000 square feet you have lots there that have even though they're separated uh common law nomenclature subdivided but there are structures in the front and there are structures in the back so this is not uncommon if if there is a structure that goes into the back it's

2:07:21not uncommon for that alignment it is uncommon to have it on a single lot and that shouldn't be lost either uh here's the thing one of the major points being made over and over again is the open space the open space we've had at the open space we've we've lived

2:07:39there we bought our house there whatever it is open space but there's no evidence or testimony presented that indicates that there is a deed restriction or formal agreement by any of the former or present owners that preserves the rear portion of the lot as open space and prohibits or restricts

2:07:57development the only reason that the rear area of the lot is open space is that the owners of the property since 1921 have chosen not to develop the area they haven't they've never forfeited their rights to develop the property under under code no other person or entity has an

2:08:19inherent right to the open space of the property other than the owners it's nice to have an open space it's nice to argue but we have to keep in mind the property rights of the owner and it's been talked to the owners had many options and I I came to the same conclusion that council member Lyman had

2:08:41had expressed and maybe we'll hear from others is that um although there's many options that the owner could have done this may be the part the the least intrusive and best in keeping for the existing character of the of the neighborhood than an alternative development

2:08:59but um the alternative development if there is one that's totally up to the owner if the owner wants to work with the neighborhood and come up with an alternative development or they can come up with an alternative development on their own that's up to them I don't know

2:09:14that we can force that the issue before us is whether we're going to allow a secondary unit in front of more than 750 square feet we can certainly encourage it we can't force it by any action tonight so um I think it comes down to this personally it's possible for this

2:09:35project to be approved by way of a conditional use for Mid and deed restrictions it's also possible to accept the appeal and deny the required conditional use permit of a second unit therefore I think we have to answer the question that has to answer is whether

2:09:51this project is a negative or non-mitigating intrusion or is it in keeping with the character of the neighborhood and in keeping with the goals of the city and I'll reserve my final decision on that uh handing the input and comments by the rest of the council so thank you thank

2:10:09you council member Abelson excuse me um first of all I want to say that when I saw the materials particularly the initial notice I couldn't figure out what was going on either I found it extremely confusing so I had to I mean I I think I understand it correctly now

2:10:35so I think the issue to me the primary issue that I had difficulty understanding was the movement of these auxiliary unit from the front from the back of conceptually that is from the from being in the back to the front and that a unit that is designated as the primary unit is redesignated as a

2:11:02secondary unit and so I guess I have a question perhaps of the City attorney are there is there language somewhere that in fact talks about primary units secondary unit and it's in their designations foreign do you mean in the municipal code or some other well in anything that would

2:11:29be affecting this decision tonight I'm not really sure where it would be there is nothing in the municipal code or state law that precludes the city council by way of the conditional use permit from treating the existing structure as a second dwelling unit and allowing for a new building to be

2:11:44constructed that would act as the primary residence not sure that's my question I think my question is if you've got a unit that is a primary unit is there anything that addresses changing the changing of its designation from primary unit to secondary unit I'm sorry can you can you okay

2:12:10this is the Crux of where I had the problem it's it's the idea that you would take a unit that is a primary unit which is the way it's been since it was built and then changing it to so that it's a secondary unit right yeah no and that's what I'm saying is there's nothing in state law or the

2:12:28municipal code that precludes the city council from by way of the conditional use permit that's being proposed from actually doing exactly that from from so absent anything we can we can do it that's what you're saying okay there's there's certainly nothing in state law

2:12:43about it and the way the municipal code is written it doesn't it doesn't specifically preclude the council from taking this action and so the nature of the conditional use permit is to recognize the specific circumstances of the property as it exists and the project

2:13:00that's being proposed and determine whether or not in light of the findings that have to be made the council can can can approve the use permit but the use permit is a vehicle for actually making the exact type of change that's being proposed which is to treat the existing

2:13:14structure as the secondary unit and then constructing a new building that would act as the primary residence okay and it and there's really that also doesn't seem to be too much that addresses whether it's in the front yard or the back yard no I think that other than their

2:13:34Provisions the municipal code that have been been cited during the course of public testimony and and by the appellants about the the anticipation that typically the secondary unit would be in the in the rear of the property but it's the nature of a conditional use

2:13:48permit to allow for reconfigurations of exactly the type that's being proposed so even though the zoning ordinance anticipates that it doesn't it doesn't say the it also by way of a use permit allows for a different configuration including the configuration that's been proposed

2:14:06as long as the council can make the findings that are required for the conditional use permit okay okay thank you um I um in my mind have gone back and forth over the different points and I think that's what something of what I've heard the previous two speakers say with

2:14:30councilmember Jones in particular expressing certainty about some points that I and I do agree with those points um and um I think that this is an extremely um difficult and problematic situation um and the irony of it is that I think that what the um owners of the property were trying to do

2:15:00was accomplish a goal that would in fact be harmonious to the neighbors and yet it doesn't it doesn't look based on the number of audience members here tonight like that happened so what's then interesting to me is in looking at what would happen if we denied this it would probably be that

2:15:28they could subdivide it and go ahead and do it anyway you know from from a point of view functionality they would still have the the house in the front and they would just still build the house in the back it's just a matter of going through what sounds like a relatively

2:15:49um effortless process of subdivision am I is it relatively effortless miasticity attorney would that be a good description of the process um well I think that the preparation of even um the type of subdivision map that would be required for for splitting one lot into two requires some fair amount

2:16:15of of engineering work and map preparation and it's a much it's a it's a it's a different application so I wouldn't say that it's effortless but um it's not going to be I wouldn't say that it's any greater burden than the conditional use permit process that the

2:16:28that the applicants have already engaged in and so I think you could anticipate that if they if they desire to pursue that project seen that they've already applied for the conditional use permit I wouldn't see any reason why they wouldn't also pursue a subdivision if that's what they wanted

2:16:43to do right um so it so that that's that's an interesting situation to me uh in and of itself um I certainly agree that um the existing house is harmonious with the neighborhood in fact it it I mean just looking at the um I I too am speculating it was one of the

2:17:12first houses there or or if there were some other houses like it let's say at the same time period they've been replaced by the houses that in fact are there now I live in a neighborhood myself where there's a com I think one of my next door neighbor the house was built in 1906 and mine was

2:17:301956 so you know you see those kinds of things I think throughout the city and this may well be one of those two but this is the older one it would seem to me so um it's it's hard to come back and then say that it's not harmonious you know I think it is harmonious

2:17:49um and um certainly the idea of wanting to move down into the um the Flatlands in order and not have a lot of stairs and and so forth that I'm hearing is the applicants um reason for wanting to do this project to begin with I think is a condition we'll be seeing increasingly

2:18:16um as our Baby Boomers um start retiring um and there's going to be a huge um in increase in the population in that age group starting about um now actually so I think that that that will become increasingly common um the um so um I I feel for the Neighbors who are very

2:18:49concerned about this project I am not however saying that that is a reason um I haven't been presented with a reason that I can really use to deny this project and uphold the appeal if I said that correctly um so what let me say that let me back up and say this I don't see a reason

2:19:14that we can justify um I'm not sure I'm saying this upholding the appeal I think I said that correctly um because I don't um the findings that that are listed in our packet I think are in fact true so um that then would be a reason to deny the appeal so I guess I'll leave it at that

2:19:45thank you everyone and um I want to thank the the residents of the neighboring Community for taking the time to to come out tonight I know it's um I I'm definitely empathized with your confusion with the noticing um I would support entertaining what councilmember Jones

2:20:05um proposed as a possible waiver given the fact that there was some misunderstandings but I would like to ask a couple of questions of the City attorney given you know the legal ramifications of what decisions we have to uphold we have to apply the law is fairly and equitably equitably as

2:20:28possible in light of this as well as future decisions and um if you could please um clarify what the um the minimum lot size for a second unit is for city of El Cerrito the minimum lot size for a second unit yes or maybe it's um for planning stuff plenty of stuff may know better than I

2:20:50don't believe there is is there a minimum no so basically the way if and I please jump in if I get this wrong but um the basically the way the zoning ordinance is set up is that um in a single-family residential district regardless of lot size um anybody is basically entitled to have

2:21:08a 750 square foot um accessory living unit if they want to exceed the 750 square foot limit then it requires a conditional use permit but then they would even with the accessory unit they would not be allowed to exceed the 50 lot coverage but you don't have to have them so in essence between the

2:21:28two structures you may end up getting some limit on the structures but you don't have a lot size limit to be able to qualify for having an accessory unit it's basically entitled to have one up to 750 square so theoretically if the lot were subdivided both Lots would then

2:21:44would have the right to apply for accessory units for each of them you could potentially build there was a primary residence on each subdivided lot and then additionally have a 700 square foot accessory unit assuming that they could fit that without assuming they

2:22:00could do that without exceeding the 50 lock cover so if they built a less than 2500 square foot primary residence they could probably fit an accessory unit yeah so you could end up I mean in essence you could basically have two lots with two primary units and two

2:22:13secondary units um and if you if you go clarify just if we were to uphold um the appeal tonight does that put the city in a position of legal vulnerability because we're not going with um essentially what is allowed given the the conditional use parameters of allowing us a second unit that's

2:22:37between 750 and 1200 square feet given the the unique constraints of the the lot well again the just to make sure that that everyone's understanding the legal framework correctly um if the if the existing if the if the applicants wanted to to do exactly what they're proposing and the existing

2:22:57residents were 750 square feet or smaller the conditional use permit wouldn't even be required um they'd probably be able to do this um I'm not sure what the what the correct process would be off top of my head if you want to know exactly we can ask the staff to do that but

2:23:12um it's only because the existing structure which is which they're proposing to to treat as the accessory living unit is larger than 750 square feet that a conditional use permit is required to make all of this happen in order to approve the conditional use permit you have to be able to make the

2:23:28findings that are specified in the zoning ordinance based on the evidence that's presented to you if you believe that you cannot make those findings then you would Grant the appeal and ultimate and thereby deny the project there's always legal vulnerability for any land

2:23:42use decision that the city council May this is basically what this would basically be a fact specific analysis that the court would do about whether or not there was sufficient evidence in the record to support your decision that you couldn't make the findings thank you so really at the question is

2:24:00um the test for us is to determine if we are not able to meet those findings to allow the grant of the conditional use permit or well you can speak you could state it a number of ways basically the question is can you is can you find do you find that there is support in the record for

2:24:18um grant for approving the conditional use permit if you find that you can approve the conditional use permit then you would deny the appeal and uphold the decision of the Planning Commission if you believe that the evidence presented would not support the making of the

2:24:30findings then you would Grant the appeal and overturn the decision of the Planning Commission okay thank you if we deny if we accept if we accept the appeal do we have to find have findings on that or can we just basically state it it exceeds the 750 square feet and we

2:25:02don't want to Grant a conditional use permit you should be you should make some statement regarding the evidence that's presented about why you can't make those findings um there isn't a resolution there for you to to adopt but um typically um in order to have um the the most defensible outcome

2:25:23possible it is appropriate and advisable for the council to tie back the decision about not being able to make the findings to evidence that's been presented in the record okay thank you question if you could please speak to the the size for the RS 5 zoning District

2:25:45yes I believe it's 5 000 square feet right and clarification City attorney if I don't think is what you said meant to say but it I believe it is what you actually did say so if they were to reduce the size of the structure to 750 square feet then they would not need a

2:26:05conditional use permit correct I'd probably want to ver basically if they if they could somehow because it would still be in front of the primary so wouldn't they need a conditional use permit for the position it would be if if I may it would be allowed with an

2:26:20administrative use permit so it would be um it's it's a similar process but it's a staff level review and a notice of that decision would be made at a staff level and a notice of the decision would be sent and that decision would be appealable to the to the Planning

2:26:35Commission and then appealable to you so if I heard the applicants to testimony correctly they did say that there were some minor additions or enclosures uh probably similar to some of the structures I've seen in the El Cerrito porches that were screen porches at one point or sun porches at one point

2:26:57turned into internal area being adding to the to the square footage at some point if they were to undo something they said they'd use the word strips in the front and back if they were to undo some of these enclosures and get down to 750 square feet it would only be administrative use

2:27:14permit that's correct due to the location on the lot okay thank you thank you and I think um overall I'd have to say given the the test that we have to to come up with given the evidence that has been submitted and my understanding of the community and visiting the site I think

2:27:39um I I don't have you know this isn't clearly a very unique situation and um given the space and the you know essentially legal property rights that the owner has and the options that they have before them and also given um the testimony tonight by their willingness to work with the to with the

2:28:02neighbors to amend the design I think [Music] um I personally would have to um support the the proponents of the project and and um effectively deny the appeal so that's where I'm headed but I would invite a motion books are ready I'm I actually I want to thank Mr morgensen

2:28:28because I am a firm believer that government is run by those who do show up so I am dragging this out because I am trying to find um I am trying to find some ground here um City attorney or Planning Commission if we denied the appeal this evening and and uh the conditional use permit is is

2:28:52granted that does not prohibit the kaplans from the meeting with the the property owners and coming to some level of agreement that that may change their I mean if we if we Grant the condition to use permit the way the Planning Commission there still could subdivide right I mean

2:29:13this doesn't this doesn't conclude their options this gives them more options um is that correct they would have to pull their permit yeah yes that is correct so it would reaffirm the Planning Commission decision and they'd be allowed to move forward with their project as is if they

2:29:35chose to change their project then it would have to be reevaluated as to whether or not it would need any additional approvals okay I I have a question for the kaplans that the mayor just said something that actually I'm not certain I heard um and I'm not certain that that you

2:29:49know given given the testimony tonight that that you may want to stand behind the statement that the mayor just made but I but I'm going to ask just because um I feel it would be generous of you to to back the mayor's words up um are you did you actually make a

2:30:04commitment that you were going to continue to work with the neighbors to try and get a development in there that would would meet their needs or or is that is that something we we wish we heard come up to the mic thank you we're just in boxes and we can't afford

2:30:28to start in fact that remark was really hit to the Bone because we're 250 000 out for the last five years on that vacant property anyway um so we haven't really considered this and our plans just so you know you just heard me say well now we're going to live in the front you know I mean we're

2:30:46going to use that as office that was last week we realized we don't have enough money even if we sell our property because the amount of money we owe on that property so we're actually sitting here thinking geez subdividing this sounds terrific you know because

2:30:59because we are really underwater on the property so we're trying to do the least we can do and I did hear though is it Grace right I did hear I do live I don't need to take up too much time but do you live on the part that only has the five foot abutment yeah that part does

2:31:18concern me a little bit so I would say that um I mean I can see how that would bother somebody and it's I mean there's no reason we couldn't move it so so I wouldn't see why we couldn't meet with him I mean I I don't think that would be contentious thank you very much for that generous

2:31:37offer I'd like to say yeah I if there's any possibility for the neighbors and the owners to get together come to some agreement here it's going to be a lot better than us um because I am leaning towards denial of the appeal but it isn't saying that there shouldn't

2:32:00maybe be a meeting of the mines and maybe coming up with something that would be agreeable to everybody and if it's a real possibility discussing that uh I don't know if we can do this but uh maybe that we continue the hearing and give the owner and the neighbors a couple weeks or

2:32:19three weeks in which to see if there is a compromise that can be reached it's amenable to everybody the other thing that interests me is the option of stripping down the house if at all possible down to 750 square feet if I heard correctly even the neighbor said that if

2:32:37it was 750 square feet they were okay with that um [Music] so I'm just wondering if there's a way of doing this uh the point point of order uh City attorney we wouldn't continue the hearing we would actually table the motion which although we haven't made a motion

2:32:56I guess my options are my options because I actually like everyone else I haven't had a compelling argument to overturn this but I have heard enough compelling argument that I would move to table the item to a future night but it wouldn't be a continuation of the

2:33:12hearing um well just as a matter of a procedure I guess I would just be I would hesitate to use the word table because in some rules of parliamentary procedure that basically means letting the thing die um if you want to I mean so in this case I in typical California City Council

2:33:32procedures I'd say you were continuing the hearing um so that you would have a chance because ultimately what's in front of you is an appeal that needs to be decided but we've closed the hearing it's still continuing okay okay thank you for that clarification there's no

2:33:45way of uh continuing art our portion of it and not having to go through another series of Public Presentation no I mean you can the the the you it is often the case that a council will continue the hearing and then when they resume their consideration of the item they'll hear from the public again

2:34:09but that isn't necessarily required you have provided the public with with the opportunity to be heard on the matter you've received evidence as long as you did not receive additional evidence but you simply took up the matter again based on the record that was established

2:34:22um you could you could take up your continued consideration of the item at a later time but certainly we would I mean we would have the opportunity to get input from any interaction that was conducted between the applicant and the appellants yes um I would just also note that I don't

2:34:41know that I have it in front of me there is probably I believe there's a time limit for the city council to issue a decision um on appeals that's reached um but I don't so I we can't do what the state government doesn't stop the time no afraid not all right I may be

2:34:58incorrect about that no I'm sure but so and additionally I mean to the extent that um you know issues about um property rights due process have come up tonight I mean there's an expectation that these matters will be adjudicated with some degree of speed so that

2:35:16property owners can move ahead with their plans um so I I just hope that the council will take that into consideration as it deliberates on the matter all right I want it simply to buy a time and it could be that until our next meeting to see if something can be worked out if

2:35:32not uh then I guess we can make a final decision and go but uh I heard some willingness although I I don't know it um some willingness on the part of the owner to to engage or at least consider alternative plans and so I'm just thinking it normally I want to make a decision go on

2:35:56but if there's any chance of compromise on this fine if not we can make a decision and then move on so that's where I'm at with it it's never even sometimes you have a well I'm wondering um council member Jones what you thought the how they would change that would

2:36:18um be a compromise that they could work with the neighbors to see if they for instance can position both structures and one is already stationary so I guess we're talking about that would um that would be agreeable to the adjoining uh neighbors is there a way to cut down

2:36:45the size of the existing house to 750 square feet and then and they can go I mean because I did hear that uh the objection is that it's over 750 square foot well I heard several objections to that I don't know if that's for everybody if they get it down to 750 square feet

2:37:07then it meets the code and we can go forward but uh then I still say the overriding factor is they want that people want to keep that as an open space and I can't sit here and say we have to force an owner to keep that as open space so I did hear that there was some Alternatives that they thought

2:37:30that they could work out so I'm just trying to buy some time if it isn't possible then let's make the decision now uh and I'm not talking if we don't think that there is a possibility of working this out then then we have to make the decision I'd rather make it now

2:37:46than later well I one thing that um I've noticed is that I actually feel like the um the neighbors and the applicant both have actually tried to see the other side and try to think of a way to make it better and um I I used to be on the Planning Commission and I don't remember that

2:38:11happening so that's in to me an unusual situation and it's a very good situation that the neighbors are willing to compromise as is the owner of the property uh and trying to make things better because ultimately uh once all all is said and done they're gonna have to live with

2:38:30each other and um it's certainly not great to live with somebody you don't like so um I I think that's really hopeful and I think that's probably what's behind the comments you're making right now is is that the hope and I I see that if they did talk to each other as one of them

2:38:50said I think it would be an amiable discussion because I think they both um see that both sides see that and and that's a really good thing if so if there's a way we could just sort of um you know stop the process while they do that I you know I don't think we have

2:39:11anything to lose for one thing at least I don't know what it is if if that's true um Can Can we ask the the person who appealed um if if they're willing to and the owner because if they're not then let's just make the decision and move on but um if there is some possibility

2:39:34so I was wondering do you feel that there is a possibility to to kind of work with the owner and see what you could do um I'm trying to think honestly uh what I would say about it I'm perfectly willing to have a discussion but it seems to me like the issue tonight is whether

2:39:54we can build a separate residence in the back or not and I'm feeling like um I'm discussing this with a gun to my head as to whether I can do this or not and so um with all the Good Will in the world you know that's really what we're discussing and know whether we can move

2:40:13this house a little bit and so on which I'm perfectly willing to discuss but it seems to be a fundamental issue um I'm not sure if we can if we have we see enough in common to come to an agreement and certainly willing to discuss it and to discuss the details of

2:40:29placement and so on for The Neighbors may I for me this issue is 750 square feet or 950 square feet the location of the secondary unit it's it's an existing house it's it's in the right place when you drive by it it looks like it's in the right place so this is this is all about 750 you know

2:40:54how are we going to hold the 750 or not and 950 yeah okay it's still a very small house um it and and the house is the right character for its placement on the lot um so it's it's for me it's the 750 and and there's what I've heard is that um that it's you know I I haven't heard enough to say

2:41:21that this 750 is that eroding this or changing going up to 950 is a tremendous erosion of our city city Civic values because this house is in the right place on the property for a small lot the thing is it's on the front of a very big lot um and that's the challenge if this was

2:41:40if this lot was only 100 110 feet deep 130 feet deep we wouldn't be having this discussion um it's because the slot is 200 feet deep and has an attribute that I'm certain the kaplan's paid for when they bought the slot which is the fact is it's a big lot um so I would

2:42:05for me I I'm not certain way I didn't exactly know how I'd vote depends on what the motion is I'm at this point I'm not willing to make the motion except to potentially give them an opportunity to talk I would like to make a motion to continue the meeting to the next council

2:42:25meeting for the sole purpose of seeing if a compromise can't be reached between the neighborhood or I shouldn't say compromise a design that is agreeable to the neighborhood and the owner to leave time but at the end of the day if there is not a compromise reached

2:42:52we're still left with the same decision and appeal and that essentially you know where it's the the cost to the the proponents of the project and it doesn't feel Fair given that given the legal um the the spatial setup of the lot the 10 000 square feet they do have the

2:43:17right to have that additional unit they have up to 1200 variants within with the conditional use permit 750 is the minimum up to 1200 and um frankly the fact that it's existing as is I feel is enough um to justify the the perpetuation as is um for this and basically using the

2:43:44conditional use permit for its purpose um of the unique configuration so I I personally I would I guess I'm not sure what to do at this point if I I don't I guess I'm only proposing that is to give it one final chance but if not if it doesn't say so then let's make a

2:44:04decision tonight and we'll hear a second for council member Jones emotion at this point there's another possibility which is to go ahead and approve the motion that I think we're all heading towards but that make a that ask that the um uh owners speak to the neighbors and try

2:44:29to put in some features that will improve um the livability from the Viewpoint of the neighbors and that would be something like the five foot issue and stuff like that and that would be so that would um actually take the gun away you might say but it would give the um

2:44:52neighbors an opportunity to make some changes that will make it more livable for them and I actually think that both sides really are um able it feels to me like they are would be able to work that way it would be a totally voluntary process that part of it is what I'm thinking so we could do it

2:45:14that way so I heard a second to councilmember Jones motion um at this point is if there's any other discussion I'd ask for a vote on that or if I may just want if we want to go Janet's way we listen to Kate now and I can pull my would you accept an amendment to your or I guess a

2:45:37why don't you just withdraw your motion councilmember Jones and I'll and see if council member Abelson wants to make a new motion okay I will I'll withdraw the motion that's my motion okay well I will make it and see what happens um I move that um let's see that

2:45:55um the appeal be denied and that the council upholds the findings that are listed on page on attachment one page one of which there are three um as part of the motion I would ask that the two parties the owners of the property and the neighbors um get together and discuss ways in which

2:46:28the project could be improved so that the neighbors um are find it more livable such as the distance from the property line I think that's what the issue is there right yeah and then I'll leave it up to the two parties to figure out what anything else might be um

2:47:00yes and I would um rebate the appeal fee of how much two 277 dollars to the applicant a talent rather is there a second I'll second any further discussion on this question so all those in favor of this motion please say aye aye aye uh opposed abstain abstain so motion carries with three

2:47:40um votes one abstention and no opposed so thank you very much for your your time this evening it's it's not an easy decision but um so I I'm sorry we do have we we I appreciate your in sentiment but we we are a public hearing process has concluded um very quick

2:48:16um it's up to me okay some comments or something if you would like to please go ahead and please please come up to the mic too and I'll give you yes I need to go over to this thing this is the kind of neighborhood this is and that's why we're fighting so hard and it's for the

2:48:37captains were either point this out okay please speak loudly very loudly um every neighbor along this way our dear friends we built the fence here and it was so confining that we put a friendship game so that we could still see oh thank you oh so that we could still see the neighbors that's how close

2:49:08we are and that could happen so that's the positive no thank you thank you very much okay with that um I would like to move us to the next item on the agenda which is Council assignments liaison reports I don't have any none for design reward net and I have nothing to report back

2:49:40and the crime prevention committee met and planned the National Night Out event uh for August 2nd thank you uh the jpa for the sports Fields down at Gilman uh the softball field is under construction and should be operational late spring early summer uh so there's slowly finishing up that

2:50:12program there'll be this softball field there still needs to be a baseball field developed of which there's no current funding for and some amenities that have to be completed if we're going to complete the master plan on that that have not been funded as of yet

2:50:31planning uh committee I will say that they took up an issue and oh I don't see Jennifer here uh on a possible subdivision and uh I can't say that it'll be appealed I'm just saying that we that's a possibility it may end up in front of us maybe not but uh we'll see what happens

2:50:55other than that that's it thank you welcome back thank you council member do you have reports for us I do I have only uh only one of my liaison committees has met since we last met and that was the financial Advisory Board uh they went over the investment policy and the

2:51:12finance policy and made some amendments and I believe we'll see that at some point they also reviewed the comprehensive annual financial report and I think that that was actually really helpful I don't know if they'd done that before but the members who were there

2:51:25were very appreciative that they got to take a whole meeting to discuss what was in it and thought that it had sort of great information really really helped them to do their duties in the future I think and uh those are all my reports thank you and myself I went to the

2:51:40Contra Costa mayor's conference where we appointed members to laughco local agency formation commission and appointed um donatson to the seat and um we also had a um appointments to a variety of commissions including the remember that mostly basically reappointments to to folks who have

2:52:07already been in the positions and um and then the human relations commission met last week just prior to the MLK meeting just essentially planning an additional last minute pieces to to carry that out and I will come back with more there's definitely events that they'll be co-sponsoring

2:52:28through the year and I'll come back with those dates but that's it for me so that um I adjourn this council meeting until our next meeting which will be back at its regular time in the first Monday in February