Special Concurrent City Council and Redevelopment Agency Meeting October 19, 2009

0:00:08we'll now convene the concurrent city council and Redevelopment agency meeting for October 19th 2009 and ask for the roll call please I know that council member Chang has um pre-arranged absence council member Jones here council member Lyman here mayor protm Aon here and mayor Potter

0:00:28here and can I ask council member Jones to lead us in the pledge could you join me in the pledge I pledge allegiance the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all we have any staff

0:00:56Communications Council Communications I have just a couple items here um first of all I'd like to announce that an Els Sero resident Don Wilson who teaches at uh penol Valley High School was honored as teacher of the year for the West Kosta County Unified District and uh don is uh

0:01:18graduate at all the elero schools went to Cal Berkeley and has taught at elero and Kennedy before uh going to Penola Valley it's a honor welld deserved and I'm glad to see that an Elso resident got it so thank you thanks the other one is uh last night I I watched

0:01:38the 20th anniversary show on C uh what was it kpix Channel 5 on LMA PRI and and I think it's just a reminder if you need a reminder of why most a lot of cities in the in California are are doing things like the unreinforced masonry ordinance says you just have to watch that it was an hour

0:02:02long it's a great reminder that the buildings that caused the most trouble were not uh enforced uh people lost their lives they they uh chronicled uh one uh incident and Santa Cruz with a coffee shop and uh two of the employees died in that that um Quake so I think

0:02:28it's a good reminder of why we're taking action here in Els Sero but also why several cities have already um been at this for a while so thank you Mr Lyman do you have any announcements no um I did want to acknowledge what a wonderful and busy weekend that we had in El Sero

0:02:46with the tree planting and celebration of arts and the open house at the fire station and U Miss abson is going to give a more indepth report on all those activities some might call it a dog and pony show so I will um start out with the dog part um that is not about this last

0:03:03weekend it's about um Halloween and uh the parks and wreck department and uh we're going to have a Halloween Carnival as I think I've announced before and it won't be on Halloween day it's going to be on uh the day before Friday October 30th from 3il 8:00 p.m. uh at the

0:03:23community at srio Vista Park there's going to I'm not sure yeah community Community Center if Miss Monica still here now I'm not sure where it is Community Center it is at the community center um beginning at 3:30 to 7:30 we'll stop selling tickets and um Carnival will go to 8:00 and the dog

0:03:46parade costume contest will start at 3:45 with registration beginning at 3 pm thank you um and it's a great opportunity and the proceeds from that uh with will go to the Bruce King memorial fund to support building a dog park in elero so I hope that you'll join

0:04:06us for those events and have a great time doing it uh and a safe time um this last Saturday as um mayor Potter said was a very eventful day in El Sero I ran into some people I know from a neighboring City and they said boy you sure are doing a lot in El Sero and that

0:04:25was music to my ears I do have to say but uh one of the things that we did was to have a tree planting in the morning we planted in uh a large quantity of trees I'm not exactly sure how many but perhaps approaching a hundred I think and uh they're planted on the street and

0:04:45they uh the money used for that comes from a grant in the afternoon um from uh noon till two we had an activity uh fair I guess you would call it out here on the pl Plaza of City Hall which I think by the way went very well with the space it was great to have the space to do

0:05:06that and um one of the things that we did at at that event was to um showcase our new containers and this is our new container uh and our Environmental Quality committee came up with this and um initiated a grant uh worked on a grant to help fund these and we're going

0:05:29to be giv giving these away and um what the purpose of these containers is is when when you go to this uh restaurant and like I do you don't eat everything and then they give you a container to put it in and take it home the idea of this is to replace that disposable

0:05:46container with this reusable container um and um and do something good for the environment and enjoy your food it's dishwasher safe it's microwave safe it's not oven safe but anyway if you're interested in finding out how you too can get one of these free containers uh then all you have to do is

0:06:07to contact our environmental services department at 215 435 z um and if you don't remember that number from I saying it I we'll say it again at the end uh it's also on our website um that number so it's 215 4350 and just as a um teaser I'm going to give it out to members of the council

0:06:33who are here and anyone else who's desperate as long as it's supp my minimum Supply last and uh then uh might NE see me next time having a little quiz to see who actually used it in the proper way um we've had a few people who think the the idea is that you take your

0:06:49leftovers from your own home meal but that's not the concept the concept is to uh shop in elero go to a restaurant uh bring in some sales tax and um then uh I don't know if there's I don't know if is if there's anyone else who wants one maybe somebody could uh pass them

0:07:15out thank you um oh and then one of my um announcements is in the bag I'm sorry um so we're going to uh be having another program that our Environmental Quality committee came up with and uh we're it's recognizing our green champions in elero and uh it's a companion piece to

0:07:45the Garden club's um recognition ceremony that they do each year for outstanding Gardens and this will be um recognizing stewards of the uh en environment in um elero and the uh categories are going to be um that you get measured in our uh lights um appliances Windows heating

0:08:10ventilation and air conditioning and water so what if you're interested in applying or want to um uh suggest that somebody else should win this award what you do would do is to rate the pro their property or your property and then turn in this form and then there will be

0:08:27winners announced for the year and this is to you know recognize people who are doing a really good job and to encourage others to do the same thing so um I'm going to pass this also to the council um um so we had uh free Street trees uh we had uh awards for our residents we

0:08:50have containers for when you go um to the store and these are just some of the ideas that our committee has come up with the Environmental Quality committee for encouraging people to reduce their carbon footprint um which um our uh initial study showed was um the significant

0:09:11cause of um car our carbon footprint in Els Sero I think 2% was caused by the city government itself 45% was caused by transportation and the rest was caused by residents in our businesses so if we want to make a change and I think we all do then what we're going to have to do

0:09:29is our Tech techniques like these and other ones um to work on our own uh habits so some other workshops that we have and I promise I'm almost done um the uh Environmental Services Department is going to be having a composting Workshop it's we're going to have a

0:09:49healthy Gardens without toxic chemicals Workshop a garden makeover Workshop um a class on reducing your carbon footprint and um a workshop on healthy homes and I think that information about these workshops is maybe already available on our website if you're interested and um

0:10:10most of these programs are free and um then with that I'll move on to where I've been um so I went to a um focus Forum on the transportation for liable communities program that was um this program is sponsored Ed by uh Association of Bay Area governments but this particular program was put on by

0:10:35the Metropolitan Transportation committee and um it was a really interesting program and um I actually was uh at about that time asked to go and speak on a a subtopic of that at a conference and we'll be speaking at reolution so I'll let you know on uh Wednesday the 14th of October um the

0:10:59Garden Club and family and friends gathered up uh at the bottom of the Memorial Grove and planted a tree in memory of Art schroer and um who was a longtime resident of our city who died uh several years ago and who did uh a lot of things he's on our wall of fame if you look at

0:11:22it when you leave this room and um so um this tree was planted uh in in his memory um there's already one in memory of his wife and some of his ashes were scattered so it was a very uh um fulfilling sort of thing to do in memory of art who is a real contributor to our

0:11:43community so that can that ends my um announcements thank you for those reports um I did remind folks during the primary election and I'm going to make another announcement today to try to promote voter turnout as a result of president Obama's appointment of our

0:12:00congressional representative Ellen taler as the under Secretary of arms control and International Security for the US state department we will be having a special election to elect a new Congress person to the 10th congressional district and that election is on

0:12:16November 3rd 2009 and the polls will open at 700 a.m. and close at 8:00 p.m. and for more information on your polling place or on the candidate state you can go to the County's website at C vote. us or call the county election office at 925 33578 you can also call our count uh

0:12:45city clerk Cheryl moris at 510 215 4305 so again the website is www.c V t. us so with that we've completed um all the staff and Council announcements and we'll move on to item three to hear comments from the public on items not on the agenda Al Miller l Miller [address removed] good evening

0:13:18and Janet there were I guess 124 trees planted oh 124 wow and one individual that lived on Clayton between Lincoln and centr organized his street and from Central Avenue between Clayton and alamor and they planted 37 in that short distance I also wanted to thank the elal

0:13:41Garden Club uh Diana gray particularly for their efforts in facilitating and obtaining and then planting Arts tree uh after the hell of a storm we had Monday we had a beautiful sunshiny day in the hillside Natural Area on Tuesday in which to plant the tree the other thing I wanted to mention and

0:14:02give thanks uh to Melanie minz for her effort uh in coordinating ELO's participation in the event that happened Friday October 9th called beads on a green necklace uh it was in a one-day tour of interested city planners Public Works directors staff Landscape Architects

0:14:25City Council Members County Supervisors and legislators and some reason they let me come too now I'm sure the purpose of this was not to advertise all of the wonderfully environmentally positive things that the city of elero has done in the last four or five years but whatever the purpose of the

0:14:45day was that's the message that came through very strong uh we started right here so they got to see the building uh Melanie explained the uh Environmental factors outside for catching and treating storm water before it runs out into the sewer uh we had a stop up at

0:15:06Point set Park where Baxter Creek was uh restored as a creek some years ago as you know the next stop was down at Baxter Creek gateway project where we saw that uh life might be a ditch but Baxter Creek is no longer and it's a very vibrant spot uh then went into

0:15:26Richmond and ended up down at at uh the Bay Trail where the UC had taken part in the restoration of the old Siege March Marsh down there which is where Baxter Creek goes into the bay uh the storm water catchment and treatment efforts of our San Pablo Avenue street skate project was

0:15:49demonstrated and explained and uh had a lot of people taking notes all day long and it was a good day and I know things like that don't happen easily and knowing Melanie she was in there stirring all away but anyway it was a great day for ELO I was very proud to be

0:16:06a resident of el Sero on that tour so thank you Melanie and thank you everybody that made it happen thank you no other slips okay we don't have any presentations tonight so I'm going to move on to item five adoption of the consent calendar we have before us items

0:16:265 a through 5e I move that we adopt the consent calendar second go ahead removed and doubly seconded all in favor I I oppose the motion carries with four votes and one absent um our next agenda item is item seven policy matters which is a Redevelopment agency item and I'll turn

0:16:53it over to um board chair Jones well thank you uh for those of you who were here last meeting this is a continuation of of uh an item that we had we we did not really conduct any sort of business or uh input in on it due to the late hour so we will be uh starting uh aresh so nobody has really

0:17:18missed anything I'd like to turn it over to staff for staff report then we'll take a public comment and bring it back here thank you thank you chairman Jones members of the agency board um I'm Hildy mile housing project manager for the city of elero and as chairman Jones uh has

0:17:38introduced the item the purpose of tonight's study session is to discuss the um different options and potential for redevelopment of the tradeway property which is 10860 s Pablo Avenue which is the former tradeway furniture store and the property immediately next door to it

0:17:5610848 s Pablo Avenue can you hear me okay all right so make sure I can all right let's turn it on there we go uh so in terms of where we are today um we have closed escro on the site the agency does own the site and staff is returning to agency board to seek direction as to the Future

0:18:27disposition of the site um we're prepared to go forward with a developer solicitation or take other action as appropriate uh pending the uh board's Direction the property was acquired with low and moderate income housing funds uh part of what that means is that the

0:18:47future development of the site needs to include affordable housing or else it would need to repay the housing fund uh the other sort of climate that we're in if you will is um we have experienced the recent state budget takeaway of $2 million from Els Cero's Redevelopment agency um that $2 million

0:19:07will have to be paid to the state over the next two years for uh ER which is called which is the uh educational Revenue augmentation fund the agency has also rescinded its offer to purchase the Fairmont Land from the West County Unified School District in light of the state budget

0:19:27takeaway in order to make the erf payment the agency uh at this point intends to program available Bond proceeds to the tradeway project putting Bond proceeds into the project would have two uh outcomes one it would make housing funds available for the agency to borrow to make the ER payment which

0:19:49is an eligible uh action and it adds potentially flexibility to the tradeway project with respect to housing fund expend limits on senior housing and I will explain that in more detail later in the presentation staff is requesting that the agency board prioritize its goals

0:20:13for the site um and given the current economic climate some but probably not all of these goals are achievable right now um so we're looking at some sort of trade-off in terms of timing or or potentially goals for the site the overarching goal uh or or context if you

0:20:33will uh of the agency's actions are are the fiscal responsibility of the agency in terms of the site the revitalization of the Civic Center Midtown area is both the goal of the agency's five-year implementation plan which is sort of the it is the Redevelopment agency's guiding policy uh

0:20:53document it's also a goal of the city's draft s Pablo Avenue specific plan another goal for the site would be to provide affordable housing again this is part of the 5year implementation plan goals as well as a goal of the housing element of the city's General plan similarly helping meet community

0:21:13housing needs is consistent with both of those plans to support the mixed use development of the city and that area in particular the site is zoned for Transit oriented mixed use um mixed use development would be um more of a goal of the specific plan not necessarily of the Redevelopment

0:21:33agency implementation plan but the site could certainly support that um and incorporate this a Civic use such as a senior center um that is a goal that's mentioned in the Redevelopment agency's 5 five-year implementation plan and of course that's subject to funds being

0:21:54available in terms of time frame for redevelopment of the site we're looking at a range of options and this is all open for discussion we could proceed with a developer solicitation right now immediately hold off until um the state EA takeaway is resolved and there's also litigation around that that

0:22:14that may add Clarity when it's resolved um wait until economic conditions improve or turn around or even potentially sell the property at fair market value and reimburse the housing fund this section of the presentation is intended to provide the agency board with some information about the

0:22:34development potential of the property and answer some of the following questions what kind of development might be possible in the near term looking at two to four years versus the longer term what are the costs of various types of development and what is the feasibility

0:22:50Gap or or the amount of agency subsidy that might be needed to make a project happen and how much City and agency subsidy is needed development feasibility is linked to a number of factors um including the size of the lot and its accessibility our zoning requirements as they relate

0:23:11to density and height and parking requirements Market rents and lease rates construction costs the cost and availability of capital and expected rates of return so as you all are well aware in the current economic climate a lot of these things have taken a hit um

0:23:29so we're I'm trying to factor all those things in as I'm talking about near-term development potential uh staff commissioned a feasibility study in 2008 that looked at sort of a limited range of development options um looking at what might be the most uh feasible in

0:23:49terms of an affordable housing scenario so we looked at um new construction of mixed use development with an affordable senior rental housing um and part of the reason that senior housing was looked at um it's one of the types of development that qualifies for um uh the highest boost in

0:24:10density which affordable housing developments can apply for so we wanted to see what that looked like um so the feasibility study looked at development prototypes containing a mix of affordable housing um and when I say affordable housing so what I'm talking about is not congregate care or assisted

0:24:29living but um individual rental units um with independent living seniors where there would be some sort of community or Services component on the ground floor um then looking at also a a Civic use that would might be incorporated on the ground floor such as a senior center

0:24:48and Retail or office use on the ground floor um the the prototypes ranged from a lower to a higher density with and without the senior Center and the retail component so we could really get a sense of how that affected um the the financing Gap and looking at surface and Podium parking so

0:25:07there's also differences in terms of construction costs for affordable housing the developments um all each of the uses the housing and non-housing uses have to be financed separately um as the sources of funding that are typically available for affordable housing cannot be used on a

0:25:26non-housing component and the analysis assumed that the agency would contribute the land as a subsidy to the project um for each prototype we looked at the total development cost the available financing and the resulting Gap so I'm going to zero in on this table for a while and I apologize that

0:25:46it's rather fine print it's hard to fit it all on here um the we looked at really four prototypes and I just want to give uh the agency board sense of the differences here um the the first prototype prototype a looking at senior housing about 47 units of senior housing so about a three-story

0:26:10project with a little bit of retail on the ground floor about 5,000 square fet um that's not a lot um just to give you a a sense for comparison the Hatland center for the blind the project with rcd that was recently um approved um that is 50 I'm forgetting here 58 units of

0:26:34housing with about 4600 square F feet of non of commercial space which will house the hland center just so just to give you a rough sense of comparison um and then the parking would be a combination of surface and street parking so the estimated development costs were around 21.7 million and this

0:26:53is all sort of order of magnitude costs to give you a relative sense the um resulting feasibility Gap so for example the the residential feasibility Gap is is the total development cost 19.6 million for the residential portion less what could reasonably be expected

0:27:13in terms of the financing that a developer could attract with the resulting gap of 4 A5 million similarly the 5,000 ft commercial component has a cost of about 2.1 million it's not expected to attract any subsidy because it isn't eligible to apply for any so you've got a total gap

0:27:31of 6.6 million if you subtract out the agency's land contribution and a developer Equity contribution you get a remaining feasibility gap of about 1.5 million and as you look across here um prototype B is similar number of units it's 52 units but it has the 15,000 foot

0:27:55Senior Center the cost of the senior center 5.7 Million results in that total feasibility Gap being quite large 9.1 million and the amount of uh agency subsidy and sponsor Equity isn't enough to sort of make up that difference so you've got quite a large financing gap

0:28:17of about 4.1 million um so as the the trend I think here as you can see is that the um and I'm going to go back here the Prototype with the smallest feasibility Gap is essentially is a residential only um development with three to four stories of residential units surface parking so

0:28:42you're not adding the additional cost of Podium parking and no retail or Senior Center you're getting a larger feasibility Gap as you add the a non-housing space as you add a Civic use or or a retail use and this is um a massing study it's it's not meant to be a pretty

0:29:06architectural rendering but it just gives you a sense of how a three to four story project with a senior center might fit on the on the uh site so there's a combination of surface parking and Podium parking and then a roof Garden so a higher density s of the lessons we were taking from the

0:29:27feasibility study is that a higher density product um is probably the most feasible at this point in time um the financing Gap increases as the square footage of the non-housing use and the parking needs increase um on the mixed use and um that financing Gap is going to remain large

0:29:49unless another source of funding can be found or a bankable tenant can be found the affordable rental housing um that's most feasible is if maximum densities can be obtained um under our Uh current zoning code and general plan that would be a senior or disabled um housing with Services

0:30:18provided um and again uh a density bonus like that was achieved for the Hatland project just to give again a point of comparison um in keeping with a specific plan Vision um even a residential only project would still Implement a strategy of intensifying uses at Midtown and

0:30:38building a potential customer base to support future retail so looking at the potential for mixed use development in the near- term it's a little less certain um the retail and office demand is not currently very strong at Midtown uh but there may be a possibility ility of some neighborhood

0:30:58serving retail or a social services tenant that would be consistent with the housing above it and a a developer solicitation could certainly specify a preference for proposals that had a mixed use component that had some sort of commercial tenant or Flex space which

0:31:14would be um space that could at a future date be built out as retailer office space um with the understanding that this should not increase the requested subsidy to the agency um and I think that's um critical because I don't think we're going to see spec retail or spec office space at this

0:31:36important time in this market uh this section of the presentation is intended to provide agency board with some information and background regarding elser's housing needs the governing policy documents as it relates to housing for the city are the housing element of the city's

0:31:54General plan and the redate development agency 5-year implementation plan the housing element contains what are known as the Regional Housing needs allocation goals and these goals are the are the goals for new housing creation for each jurisdiction in the region um

0:32:13our goals for the current period which are the bottom number the Regional Housing needs allocation for 2007 through 2014 they're quite ambitious compared to the last period goals um and in this economic climate it's anyone's guess as to whether that much development will actually occur in this

0:32:35period of time but even so uh we can do what we can in terms of uh meeting the the extremely low very low and low and moderate goals the extremely low category is a new one for this period of time the the um State added that category and what so that is very low is Folks at 50% of area meeting

0:33:00income or below extremely low would be Folks at 30% of area meeting income or below um and the 28 units that you see there under very low are the Hatland Center units that are pending Construction in terms of the Redevelopment agency and its obligations uh the Redevelopment agency has a 15%

0:33:30inclusionary requirement over the life of the of the um Redevelopment project area to create affordable housing that is um 15% of the total uh new housing stock that's created in the project area uh the agency is doing well in achieving that we're I think we're at about a

0:33:51little over 177% of the new units are uh affordable in terms of who they they actually serve um the there are about between 10,000 and 11,000 housing units in the city of those there are 226 that are restricted as affordable by the agency so who do those serve about 77%

0:34:18serve very low income folks only about 2% serve low 21% moderate terms of the population that lives there the majority uh serve a senior population about 54% special needs accounts for about 15% and that's including the Hatland units which are still pending and about 31%

0:34:40for multif family and again that includes um 48 units the aloney gardens is the hland center project so those are still pending construction there are also some constraints in terms of limits on the use of Redevelopment agency housing funds the agency can only spend 43% of

0:35:03its housing fund on age restricted senior housing that's a a 10-year compliance goal so every 10 years um we have to we can only spend 43% of the money in that 10 years so the period that we're in ends in 201314 we have no spending limitation on Special Needs family or other non-age

0:35:26restricted housing and then there's also an income targeting restriction we have to spend at least 40% of the housing fund on on creating low-income housing and no more than 34% on Modern income and those percentages come from um our our socioeconomic data so it's in

0:35:46proportion to the income stats for our population so pending tonight's Direction staff will return to the agency board with a developer solicitation package for the tradeway site if that's the direction we want to go the agency has hired a consultant to assist with the developer solicitation

0:36:08selection and negotiation process and will proceed with that process or take other action depending tonight if we proceed with developer selection that process would include uh issuance of our request for proposals and developer qualifications and review of selection of a top rank and second

0:36:27ranked developer the agency and the top ranked developer would enter into an exclusive negotiating rights agreement uh to negotiate a development and disposition agreement uh and the agency would deserve the right to uh reject all responses or selecting the developer if

0:36:44they didn't feel like they got an adequate response in terms of proposed selection criteria we' be looking at track record for completing similar projects ability and experience and obtaining financing and overall Financial strength desirability of the land use

0:37:00plan and quality of proposed project and feasibility of the the proposed financing plan including the a the developers ability to obtain equity and debt financing and the amount of subsidy requested um other issues that aren't directly related to um the the Redevelopment of the site or these are

0:37:23sort of shorter term issues is um demolition of the structures that the agency proceeds with development um there are some different options here and so I just wanted to present a little more information um it is possible that the agency could lead demolition in the

0:37:41near term however we don't currently have the funds available to proceed with that but we're we're looking at uh some different options including looking at some of the um stimulus funds that might fund uh sort of a green jobs training program uh to deconstruct the site a

0:38:00developer-led demolition would be um very very uh expeditious in terms of putting that in the developer solicitation but it would probably be several years out um as the project wouldn't be ready to break ground for several years even if we issued a solicitation very quickly uh demolition

0:38:21would require sqa review under the California Environmental Quality act uh and there is the potential for some deconstruction some recycling of building materials to be reused um but it tends to add to the cost as compared to sort of quote unquote straight up demolition um I'm also uh staff has also

0:38:43looked at some interim uses for the site and looking into the potential um of leasing out the site as a way to help defay the carrying costs and potentially contribute to to uh the costs of uh demolition or deconstruction of the site so that leaves us with um the the

0:39:07sort of uh policy questions before us tonight which staff is asking for your direction um I've prepared a very simple Matrix to outline what I think the central questions are and I will leave it to the agency board for discussion and I'm available if there's any

0:39:25questions thank you thank you before staff leaves the podium we have questions okay I go ahead oh go ahead I'm sorry thank you um let's see I have several questions um so on the um chart on page 11 um you show the different um Financial the analysis of the different

0:39:51Alternatives uh and the bottom line the Gap um what I was but what what I think you're not showing if I'm unless I'm not seeing it is um a standalone senior housing uh for stories right the Standalone prototype is would be the Prototype C that says three stories that

0:40:18says three stories we had to sort of eventually limit the number of prototypes because it it expands the budget each time we want to look at a prototype um so I think this is meant more to infer sort of the ballpark of what the feasibility Gap would be rather than to

0:40:39but but we didn't look we didn't specifically look at a four-story senior only um project what I'm curious about is what the Gap would be if it were four Stories versus three stories I have a related question I was wondering if it's the four stories that triggers the need

0:40:57for the podium parking which drives the cost up the and this there's a couple there's a couple different ways to to look at it or to slice it the uh as a affordable housing under the state density density bonus law can also um qualify for a number of concessions

0:41:20and those are typically around parking requirements open space and height limits so a four-story project would depend on what sort of parking ratio we wanted to shoot for it's possible that we it would be possible to surface park it I'm not sure what that parking ratio would then

0:41:43be um well I was just I mean getting back to my original question without making those are all variable different variables right but if you if the only variable were between three and four stories I'm just just wondering what that does to the Fe the feasibility Gap

0:42:01if they if they were to go to Podium parking which I'm not positive going to four stories would require it would but if it did it would probably increase the feasibility Gap I think part of the intention in commissioning the study was to see if we're in the ballpark so that

0:42:17if we were to go forward in issuing a developer solicitation would we have some um basis of knowled in which to expect that we were go asking developers to respond to a feasible set of goals and then here's here's another question um I I think you were here when I did my little dog and

0:42:40pony show as it were about the environmental uh things but what if we um said that we would like this project to be um an an example of uh going the right direction and so doing some of the things in it such as for example um reducing the amount of parking and If This Were senior housing

0:43:04then I would think on Theory the average number of parking spaces per unit would be less anyway but to sort of um present this to the um renting public as a project where in fact we want to attract people who in fact don't D either don't drive cars at all or don't drive as many

0:43:27cars or whatever the criteria is that we uh pick just like the the suggestion of the green the green roof you know is is a really good one I think but I'm just wondering if we could build some of that into this project theoretically and um and then reduce the costs that Gap um even further by doing

0:43:53some of those things um I have two two responses we can part of what this developer solicitation would state is our current zoning requirements a request for a concession to say provide less parking for example would be a decision of the Planning Commission as part of the entitlement

0:44:19process so I I I'm I'm limited and I'm not sure sort of how we incent incentivize it exactly um we could certainly um encourage uh uh projects that use parking judiciously and often developments um submit parking studies uh as part of their uh application for entitlements but I think the Assumption

0:44:49in terms of presenting a developer solicitation is that the developer needs to operate within our current uh zoning code so we and but we could certainly for example on the environmental side we could say um we could incentivise if the project wanted to incorporate green features whether it

0:45:07be lead certification or some other um standard for example well I'm specifically thinking about the parking because it is on a corridor that has an immense amount of um Transit available right just by walking outside the front door um um there's two buses each

0:45:27Direction every um between 12 and 15 minutes um and that's it's really quite rich in transit so that you can get to where you need to go really fast it's also if senior housing a um population that um theoretically is not driving as much uh may not may not need and I'm

0:45:53sure doesn't need in as a as a as a group not speaking individually but as a group they don't need as many um cars and there they also they alternative ways of looking at cars like car sharing and you know there's a variety of tools that that could be there but um to say that

0:46:10um we sort of go against the zoning ordinance um and I'm not sure how the specific plan that we're working on would feed into all of that and if it would change it even but I guess I'm just thinking that we ought to um you know it's in be interesting to me to see

0:46:27some of those um more um I mean I I can um say that there is some incentive to the affordable housing development Community if you would there's there's a market incentive there to minimize their parking costs but they're balancing that with what they know about the demand for the that

0:46:53their residents will likely have for development and their residents aren't that different from anybody else in terms of what they expect in terms of parking so I think that there's some some um uh desire to let the market sort of drive that in the sense of seeing what

0:47:15the affordable housing community might propose in terms of proposals to a solicitation but we could somehow incentivize reduced parking that might be um one approach we we can't what I don't want to do is is uh step on sort of the entitlements process because that that

0:47:33wouldn't be something um the next question I had had to do with the um the way affordable housing is financed um at least what we sell with the Hatland Center and what I remember of that project is that um in order to get the financing that came from other sources the first piece they

0:47:54needed to get was our piece and what I'm wondering is I'm assuming this would be the same if this is if we assume this is an affordable housing project that yeah they're going to be going after the same kinds of funding maybe not specifically the same Source but the same types of uh

0:48:14funding and uh what I'm wondering in that example is if is the uh our contributing the land enough for our part of that do you think or does it or would we have to contribute more um more like cash for example that's that's an excellent question that's partly why we

0:48:36commissioned the feasibility study um what this would seem to indicate and and again this was commissioned over a year ago and the Market's done a lot of things since then um but we think we're in the ballpark in terms of a feasible project just with the land subsidy um to the and part of what I'm

0:49:02also trying to show is to the extent that we have other goals for the site that cost money for example having retail or having a senior center that adds cost to a development so trying to find that balancing point of what might be feasible in today's market given if

0:49:21all we want to contribute to the project is the land subsidy what is feasible so I think what we're what we're what the feasibility study is showing is that if that's sort of the limit of how much we can contribute to the project right now it looks like a housing ownly

0:49:38project is is in the ballpark and worth sort of soliciting to the larger development Market thank you then um I I wasn't quite positive how this works but could we have housing that's not affordable housing in in this project and have it without um refinancing the land the so

0:50:03theoretically in terms of the agency's contribution of housing funds in the project the proportion the amount of housing funds has to be in relation have to has to have an economic relationship to how much affordable housing is is actually being provided um you have there's what's

0:50:21called a 3344 analysis where you're actually looking at how much you're rating down the value of the land given how much affordability you're you're putting in the project so you for example if you only had 5% affordability in the project but wanted to contribute the land that would

0:50:40probably not be warranted um what that exact mixing point is would depend on what the developers proposing in terms of the overall project that theoretically you could have a mixed income project with market rate great housing in it and still leave in your housing subsidy

0:50:58theoretically in this market I would say that's probably you're probably not going to see any proposals for that scenario okay thank you I'm almost done um then my next question is if um a a unit um I don't know how to say this correctly but if somebody were um both a

0:51:19SE if a tenant in this project we're both a senior and disabled how does they get counted counted in what sense by by you can the thing the one thing I'm wondering about is there's a limit on seniors um what matters is is how any um the Redevelopment agency would have an affordability uh

0:51:46restriction on the property that would be recorded against it and that affordability require restriction that agreement would actually State whether whether it was a senior or a disabled or what the units were restricted as in addition the developer would be going

0:52:03after other funding that would be um targeted to serve that income group that or that population group but it was senior or disabled or multif family and so there would also be those restrictions as placed against the property so what matters is not whether the tenant that's actually occupying the

0:52:23unit is senior or disabled or both but how that affordability restriction is recorded against the property and then that in turn determines the eligibility of the tenants does that answer your question I'm not sure that it does I'm just wondering if um I I'm just concerned about the limit

0:52:45on seniors in the project and um because I know that in in in California there's supposed to be an enormous uh increase in the number of seniors in our state for example and I know that in elero in particular we have a very high number of seniors I know at one point in recent history don't know

0:53:12if it's still true we had U more seniors um per in per population unit than any other city in the county um so what I'm wondering about is this may be more difficult for us to meet than another um city so I'm just wondering if if some of the units were filled by people who were both if we

0:53:37have to count them as seniors we could just count them only as disabled and then get uh more people served that way it's kind of what I'm really wondering I guess what I would say is that the sources of funding that a developer a developer would be structuring the

0:53:54project either is all senior or or some other combination of multif family and disabled senior is hard to the funding source is hard to combine with other sources so a project that was senior would tend to be senior only okay uh a project that served disabled could be more of a blend of

0:54:19family and disabled housing depending on the population that it served okay thank you that's that's those are my questions great sure I've got a few um on one of the early slides that you proposed selling the property and in this market it would likely be a a loss

0:54:42fair market value today appraising out lower than what it was when we purchased it and that's just the nature of the delay in the economy catching up with or the appraisals catching up with the economy um if we did this is the um agency would be short who makes up that

0:55:01difference is there is there a need to make up that difference or that differences washed away my understanding there's no need to make up that difference you you would be there would be a loss a net loss most likely if if we sold in today's market but the difference between what we purchased it

0:55:19for and what we would sell it for that that difference would not have to be made somehow the the housing fund would not be have to be made whole okay also on slide 11 um I I was looking at the comparison of prototype B and C and left a little confused um it appears that the it's not clear on here

0:55:44so I had to do some math but it clear it appears that the funding that's available out there is about $323,000 per unit and that's where you're coming up with say the difference between the residential total development cost and the residential feasibility Gap um appears that that's

0:56:07the formula that they're that they're using when you look at prototype B and prototype C they're both 52 units um however b as a result of I guess the senior center the development costs are less um and therefore the residential feasibility Gap is less 3.4 million

0:56:29versus 5.4 million um when in reality the subsidy the $323,000 per unit is the same and that's why those two gaps are different um it I guess my question is why would the development cost be different as a result of the it's the same number of units part of it is the parking because

0:56:54there's podium there's there's more parking total in in Prototype B and there is a whole detailed proforma behind this that I'd be happy to share um so the so in in essence the senior center is carrying the cost of the parking the the costs of the parking are prata shared between the residential and

0:57:15any other use so the senior center isn't sh isn't isn't sharing a disproportionate amount but it generates more parking need than 5,000 ft of retail or whatnot does that it it the formula isn't that's what the formula is based on in ter it's it's a Prat share of

0:57:38those costs okay and that's why it Alters that per unit amount um is in in a later slide you or actually in this slide it's fine we talk about senior housing across the board through all of these these these different uh pra or um prototypes is low in moderate housing

0:58:01can it be substituted I mean can these be 47 units of low and moderate housing for Prototype a and 52 units for B and C um more or less there are some differences and let me just give you a little hint of what that would be part of the reason I held it as senior across

0:58:19the board and so that you could see what was happening in ter when we varied sort of other things um but for example taking the Hatland Center rcd project it's a similar density um the unit even though there are a similar number of units in the Hatland project those units tend to be

0:58:40one two and three bedroom units there's there's the units are bigger on average than you would see in a senior development so you need a little more square footage maybe a little more height to get the same number of units in a multif family devel velopment than

0:58:55you would in a senior development so your development costs on a per square foot wouldn't be any more but they would be more per unit because your units are larger is the but this but there is also subsidy that somewhat takes that into account that was my question thank you

0:59:13um so the gaps would the Gap analysis that's the bottom of this chart would be approximately the same proportion across the columns correct um the let me just State one more thing that the parking also enters into this equation I think they the prevailing wisdom if you will in

0:59:38terms of parking needs for different special needs populations is depending on the disability disabled populations would tend to have the least amount of parking needed um senior housing is a range actually the demand is sometimes one for one um because folks want a

0:59:59parking space they want to preserve their Mobility when they move into a unit they may age in place and no longer drive but in terms of what they what developer builds that's sometimes what we see and then multif family would probably be a similar parking ratio at

1:00:15least one space per unit but there is some variability there and there's a a willingness it seems on the part of the development Community to reduce those parking um ratios in other words provide less parking but that again is is uh needs to be balanced with what the

1:00:34community thinks is is reasonable on slide 19 you talk about spending limits um and if I heard you correctly these are exactly that they're spending limits but they do not necessarily limit the number of units just the spending so if you go back to slide 18 where you're counting our

1:00:54percentage um previous slide where you're counting our percentages of units in the city this is done by number of doors not necessarily by expenditure correct um so when you say that we have spending limits of uh 43% on senior and 40% on lwi income and and no more than

1:01:1834% on moderate those are dollar investment features and not units so the this chart that shows us the different participation of units in the city um you know we could we could push all of our money towards senior and it still may not meet our spending you know

1:01:46spending cap necessarily let me the the the the expenditure limits that that the 43% in this case are what slide was that 18 19 thank you um are in 10year it's over a 10year period of time so it depends how much uh tax revenue tax increment Revenue there is obviously during that

1:02:15period of time and what we spend it on so the table that shows sort of how much uh how many units and who who they serve uh is is a is a historical view the snapshot of sort of what we and I can prepare that table um that shows what our 43% would get us that snapshot is from January 1st 2002

1:02:45through 20134 we've spent money on about three and a half million on the Hatland Center and $350,000 on a loan towards the Idaho Apartments so that's what we've spent towards non-age restricted housing and the the law is written so so if I'm understand what you

1:03:10just said that since 2002 we've spent nothing on age restricted housing at this point correct okay even though there may have been age restricted uh units constructed they weren't years they weren't funded the agency did not participate in that work the agency did but because this

1:03:31requirement basically it was established in January 1st 2002 so anything that happened before that we sort of Don't Count great thank you um this is this is a question that I don't know but and it's just what is the distance between 10860 and the Elso Del Norte location are we actually in a

1:03:56location that would qual I mean I understand you said it was Transit oriented development in the specific plan but I'm just curious what the distance was I don't know off the top of my head it's currently zoned Toom as is the Hatland Center sort of this Midtown node uh but I do not know

1:04:13the distance from Del Norte top of my head um on one of the slides you talk about the demolition cost and near the end and is there an estimate of the cost already put in place and as you think about the answer to that question you said there's a potential increase in the

1:04:31cost if we recycle and go green which is I think something we certainly want to know what that cost is um is there an estimate for the cost of doing it with recycling involved there's a rough estimate um I have not done a formal uh solicitation of proposals so I don't have a

1:04:53competitive sense uh I can give you a ballpark for demolition costs if that's helpful somewhere between 270 and $350,000 on top of that there would be hazardous materials abatement so add another 60 to $75,000 that would need to be done whether it was done quote unquote

1:05:15Greenly or not um any this project would be prevailing wage so that labor all needs to be prevailing at prevailing wage rates um deconstruction um I'm not sure how much exactly that would add I have some quotes but they're they're not comparing Apples to Apples across the board but I

1:05:41would expect to add at least $60,000 on top of the demolition estimate and on the last slide I think you talked about uh interim uses actually it wasn't on the slide but you anticipated one of my questions um one of my questions was is the building safe enough for an interim use and then you

1:06:01said that you've considered interim uses so I was wondering if you could expand on what interim users might um be able to offset some of our carrying costs um the discussions I've had have been very um informal or conceptual uh I think that there are certain uses that would

1:06:23be I don't there would be certain uses that would be appropriate given the current state of the building one of those might be something that's consistent with what has gone there before namely sort of selling furniture or Building Material type um uh business Home Improvement

1:06:44type uh something that might um also dispose of the remaining inventory that's that's still there um part of the um uh challenge if you will or or one of the factors in attracting uh an interim user is they need to know how long is that interim period going to be so one

1:07:10of the um questions in terms of of interim lease is well are we on a trajectory to develop this ASAP or are we on a trajectory to hold it and then proceed because if we're working with a two-year versus a fiveyear or something lease term that also changes what the

1:07:29market might be could be the driest Christmas tree farm in the city so if I might interrupt I I uh checked my iPhone and it's 08 miles thank you thank you what to Del Norte from Del Norte part from from the tradeway site to the Del Norte part here so it's just next

1:07:49door so 085 thank you I just have two quick questions um it appears that we're contemplating a range of uses at the site and and maybe this is an opportunity to build the senior center that we've been wanting to build we've been talking about it for some time and I was wondering if you can

1:08:09tell me the square footage of the existing Senior Center and where we have it in the capital Improvement plan uh at this point I am not sure of the existing square footage of the the existing Senior Center I believe it's around 7,000 ft the capital Improvement plan it's in

1:08:33there there are no funds available at this point if that was the we were expecting to issue a bond which then the market collapsed so but I guess that I just bring it up because it we will be being asked tonight to consider should we wait should we proceed and if we

1:08:53should proceed seed what kind of mix of uses and because um this presents an opportunity it's linking together both our affordable housing obligations with the idea that we might also be able to build a bigger more modern and perhaps better located Senior Center so that was

1:09:10um why I was asking those questions I I realize we don't have funds stashed away to make that project happen um my other question and I don't know there's a lot of variabil variables that would influence the answer maybe Mary knows um an estimate over 20e period what 5,000

1:09:28square ft of retail would bring in in sales tax as another um Revenue stream that we could be generating if we decide to go to a mix use it it would depend on the use i i i Laura and I are probably going the same direction um it it would very much depend on what is the operation in

1:09:57that space um if it's a social services type organization such as hatlin they would be generating absolutely no sales tax um that is a likely scenario so that's a retail use that would be like uh that's a Comm it's a commercial use that's acceptable under the the transit oriented mixed use

1:10:19development what the in what a developer might propose and we could incentivize is that the zoning requires that there be some nonresidential commercial use on the ground floor it doesn't specify that it has to be retail or office um and the developer working with

1:10:42affordable housing resources they can't front that money so they're going to either find a tenant that has a guarantee that's a bankable tenant in other words they're they're they're not going to build on spec they're going to actually find a tenant and know that they have a tenant that

1:10:59can pay the rent so the assumptions that goes into page 11 isn't necessarily retail it's just a use that would fit with the zoning correct so then is alternative c not compliant with the zoning prototype C would assume that the ground floor space the zoning presumes that you

1:11:22cannot have residential unit on the ground floor the ground floor could be completely devoted to community rooms and offices of the the housing development that would well I'm confused about alternative C and the numbers that go with that because it doesn't indicate it

1:11:42indicates only the housing unit so I don't see where there's anything on the first floor alternative C is housing only and affordable housing development just like an apartment building would on the ground floor have reception area the entrance and any space for property

1:12:09management those types of functions those are considered part of the residential those can be funded through the affordable housing funds so they're part of the residential use on the financial side and this is perhaps where I could have been clear in presenting

1:12:24this but in terms of meeting the zoning that's that's a non-residential use on the ground floor it isn't active commercial space in the sense of um you know a storefront but it's it would meet the requirements of the zoning as far as as I understand would would that mean

1:12:45that only the street front part would be those uses and housing units could be behind it that's much which is is not here from talking with our planning manager my understanding is that's correct that the requirement is that you cannot have residential units ground

1:13:02floor s Pablo Frontage okay thank you thank you thank you very much okay I think it's time for uh public comment on this Tom panis good evening chairman Jones members of the board and staff my name is Tom panis and I live at [address removed] Els Sero I'm here this evening to reate to

1:13:44reiterate comments of the Elso Historical Society regarding the former contracosta florist and later Chamber of Commerce Historic Site about a year AG ago a historic resources report was prepared for this property this report evaluated structures located on the site

1:14:00as if the site's primary significance was is one of AR architectural significance the historical society believes that the analysis and the subject report was both misguided and incomplete while the architectural features of this site are interesting the far more significant component of

1:14:17the site's historic significance lies in its cultural significance aside from the the obvious distinctions that sometimes exist between architectural and cultural significance of a historic resource the Historical Society maintains the cultural significance of this property

1:14:33definitely warrants research findings and Analysis not present in the historic resources report presented uh prepared for the agency last year the mayor and some members of the staff received a letter several months ago from the Historical Society regarding this subject I've attached

1:14:50that to the material I asked the clerk to distribute speaking on behalf of the Historical Society I want to make sure that you the members of the Redevelopment agency's board understand that the Historical Society considers the failure of last year's historic resources report to

1:15:05seriously consider the cultural significance of the project of the subject property to be just one of the reports several deficiencies the attached correspondence and it's in your packet there from the National Park Service our nation's Authority on historic resources

1:15:21indicates the Park Service also Minds last year's historic resources report inadequate and in fact suggest the site could be eligible for the national register accordingly the historical society is strongly of the opinion that relying on the conclusions of last

1:15:37year's report regarding possible historic significance of this site would not be in the agency's best interests the Historical Society does not object to a proper adaptive use of this historic site so long as the new use and any improvements to the site pay appropriate respect to its historic to

1:15:55its historic integrity and to its importance to the cultural fabric of our community the Historical Society the National Park Service and others believe that reuse of the subject property definitely is feasible and therefore should be pursued consistent with man

1:16:11with the best management practices in historic preservation thank you very much thank you Tom uh before you leave any questions thank you very much El Al Miller Al Miller [address removed] uh if staff were still here I would ask her to put page 18 back up but if you just

1:16:39visualize that was the one that showed very low low and moderate when you're breaking down the income with that as an introduction uh like many people in the city I partip participated in the community uh input uh programs that City previous City councils have started they

1:17:00go under names such as neighbor to neighbor or project listen and the most recent one was committee ended up being called the committee of the whole that's not what it was intended to be but that's what it ended up my experience is and that in all of those discussions when it came to quote

1:17:19affordable housing most of the people people that were involved really didn't know what affordable housing were or was and they tended to have a negative impression on it thinking that it was for the very low income uh the poor levels of our economic Stratus but when we had staff reposition

1:17:42this discussion with the salary level of very low low and moderate it was easy for them to see that the people were talking about our new teachers new firefighters new policemen the people that everybody would want to live in their neighborhood rather than pardon

1:18:02the expression that people refer to kind of like as those other people that we don't want in our neighborhood so my suggestion is is that in any of your Redevelopment agency discussions addressing affordable housing that if you could it would be a good lesson for

1:18:20everybody trying to follow your discussion if you could instead of just the narrative name show the salary Brank and somewhere in the discussion connect that salary range with what new city staff hires what new teachers and what new Public Safety PE uh hires make I

1:18:39think it' make a big difference in the acceptance of these affordable housing projects thank you thank you next speaker no other speaker lips okay anybody else want to speak before we get on with c Council I mean uh agency board discussion I'm sorry sure Acoustics are good but not

1:19:05that good I'm sorry if you could give those uh income ranges yeah I have the income ranges um uh moderate income and this is by for a household of four moderate income would be uh household income of 107,000 annually 107 annually 7,000 for family for for the whole family

1:19:25okay thank you uh low income would be 66,000 a year for family of four very low income would be a household a family for making 44 about $45,000 a year and extremely low would be a family of four making $27,000 a year thank you question question oh go ahead um what if it's a smaller family

1:19:51those are adjusted I actually have a whole table so if it's a smaller family the qualifying income would also be for example we've been talking a lot about seniors so probably typically there would be one or two people so I'm just curious what that does to that do you

1:20:08have sorrya it changes quite a bit but I don't have it in my head sorry but it is but it is based and it is adjusted on household could we maybe uh get it in a um packet absolutely I can send it out in a weekly thank you thank you okay why don't we bring it back um

1:20:28we'll start discussion let's start with Greg okay well um I I'm not um too wild about selling the property at this point because it is I think an excellent opportunity for us to make a statement about what we're looking for here in Midtown um so I'm I'm not too enthusi enthusiastic about

1:20:50selling the property at this point um I I do wish we had funds to do some of the site preparation work like demolition especially in a in a e uh environmentally sensitive manner but I understand we don't have that money so I am uh interested in what uses we can put

1:21:10in there for a year or two years until the economy starts coming back so that we can um get some understanding about closing the feasibility Gap uh through better economy uh I would like to see a Civic use in the structure uh being adjacent to City Hall uh its ability to

1:21:38um I mean council member Aon talked about the plaza being a wonderful place for us to meet uh this last weekend that having another structure that adjacent that close to City Hall that had provided different um certain different uses uh potentially is is very valuable and so I I'm not um

1:22:03I'm not ready to give up the mixed use uh aspect of the of the project at this time um so those are those are sort of the overarching themes I know that you've got some guidance for us to consider um it certainly should go forward with affordable housing as um I

1:22:24think uh one of our public speakers Mr Miller uh just pointed out and staff read off affordable housing really is for our our Workforce um and it would be wonderful to have affordable housing here um I think I've touched on most of the things that you're looking for at this

1:22:45point um I'll let others continue okay um I'm just going to start off with a comment on um what was just said about um selling and and timing of when to do a project and um I spend a lot of time out in Pleasant Hill because it's where the Transportation Authority is and also

1:23:08I do a lot of um PTA workout that way um anyway what I'm noticing is they're building a new project at the uh Pleasant Hill BART station and um it's going really fast hu huge project and um my understanding is that they've they're getting really good prices on everything so if we could find

1:23:30a developer now and that's an if um then my guess is we could build it um this is a good time to do things just like it was this this was a good time to do our street work because there's a lot of availability of uh Workforce and um materials are are seem to be a good price right right now so

1:23:53there are some advantages if we could I think of doing that um so I'm I'm not totally opposed to the idea of looking because if we could find somebody it might really be a good time to do it we could actually find somebody now if we couldn't find somebody then that will

1:24:08take care of it all by itself um it looks to me like um the scenario that we were shown um points to um um housing rather than another type of use and um when I look around just even down the block from here and this is in the same block as this project um that I

1:24:35see um some retail ground floor retail that's never been occupied M um and when I talk to other people um about projects in other areas it's a common theme people are starting to wonder in in the circles I travel in whe whether or not mixed use allinone project is really

1:24:55actually a good idea if this model is really working um and I certainly have concern share those concerns that maybe this isn't quite the way to do it um I think we've heard that there are some issues with the way uh the sizing of it you know there there are just simple

1:25:13issues that um maybe this isn't exactly the best way to do it um it it might even be that and I don't know this is true or not but it might be that having um a building that has all uh commercial retail in it next to a housing um building would be a better way to do it uh maybe it's one in one

1:25:37block one in the next block I don't really know those answers but what I do know is the way we're doing it isn't really working as well as we thought it would and um so it doesn't enthrall me with the idea of building more of it like that now housing anytime we've

1:25:54built housing around here it just goes like hot cakes so that tells me that that's a winner and um that it's a good thing to concentrate on which corresponds with the chart um and using let's see page 11 I think that is where to go in these examples that were shown it

1:26:21had the minimum level of feasibility Gap 300 versus the next closest was 1.5 million all the way up to 4.1 million so there was a big difference there and um that corresponds um to having the you know not having that uh mixed use in the same building so it makes me want to

1:26:45think about reinking well I think I've already already was thinking that but it makes me um it supports my um desire to want to rethink that um certainly built in the way that it's been built recently which is really small Stores um and it may have something to do with the shape of them

1:27:09and um I've just seen things that you know they haven't really worked as well as I thought they would so um anyway I personally would like it revitalized sooner rather than later if we can find financing so I think it all uh goes back to the financing and um this may or may not be

1:27:29the best place to build a senior center um if the portala site opens up if they move portala and we have the opportunity to buy the lower Playfield it may be that we want to consider acquiring that site for um Pro the provision of uh tomorrow's seniors services um and they

1:27:53may not look like today's Senior Services um a lot of people who are um the Baby Boomers in particular what I'm hearing is first of all they don't seem to think they're ever going to be classified as a senior citizen they think they're just going to kind of Roll

1:28:08Along and um I think even the surveys that we did um showed that um they weren't really interested in the same services so it might be that we would have some buildings that provided services that that um benefited seniors but that also benefited other people and

1:28:26that might be just what the seniors wanted and it might be a combination it might be that one hour you would use one thing another hour you would do another thing and you you know the rooms would be flexible that way so um you know that's another if to me um see what else haven't I answered I'm

1:28:46looking at the questions um in in terms of the age group I'm you know I think it is leaning towards seniors because we do have this increase in population that we do need to serve and we certainly do have the capacity it would appear within the numbers of housing units already produced which so

1:29:07we have zero in the period that counts um and um so we have plenty of ability to do it right now it's in a great place for seniors who do not drive and that's the thing as as that uh I know from from some of the other stuff that I do in transportation that as senior age they um you know their

1:29:29driving becomes less and it you know it can often go you know goes down to zero and they don't need as many cars and uh what they do need is good Transit and this is a great location for that and um I would hope it would attract people who see it that way and I already know a

1:29:48number of people who have moved into um the project at at the other end of the um block um I always forget the name of it I call it El Millan number it's uh Royale no oh sorry the Town Center thank you um and um and they moved there because of the of the transit they moved

1:30:11there and they were seniors they moved there because it was a place where that they didn't have to depend on their car that W weren't in the hills with the steps and so forth so it's a great place for seniors to live uh that way and it doesn't mean that they're not still

1:30:27active they can still be quite active and can go all over the place they can do all kinds of things what I'm a little bit disappointed about and I suppose it's you know it's just something we've I'm curious if there's anything we can do about it and what we would have to

1:30:41change to do it so that uh we can be more flexing flexible about things like parking and more Innovative about environmental features uh incorporating th incorporating those into this building um and um so I would like to see us do that that to me is a priority

1:31:02thank you thank you mayor no I agree with u Mr Li and that I don't think it's a good time to consider selling the property and so that leaves us with the question of whether we proceed now or we wait and um I just wanted to make a few comments about um board member able s's comments

1:31:23on these issues of planning and entitlements which I think really need to be worked out at a different phase in this process and some of the ideas might require a general plan Amendment which I understand is something that is being looked at as a separate um decision so

1:31:38to focus in again on today's uh request that we talk about whether we want to proceed now or wait um I have a couple of concerns the first one is the couple of project s that we've worked on in The Last 5 Years that have not moved forward for various reasons and they've been predominantly housing

1:31:57projects and mix use projects and they include the Creekside project um the Olsen mixed use project at Del Norte our struggles to find a mixed use project at Target and the fact that we have the Hatland project that still is in the very early stages of entitlement and

1:32:14construction so I am just wondering if this really is the right time to take on another major project um and then I started thinking about all the uncertainties that we have ahead that make it difficult for us to plan and to come up with this decision right at this

1:32:30juncture and you know the obvious big one is the economy but there's also questions about the future of our general fund and what kind of adjustments we're going to be making in our next budget cycle um with and and with regarding our vacancies and our staffing levels for all the programs of

1:32:47the city the other is the future of any Library Bond measure or stimulus package money that may in the future come to our city that would allow us to move forward with the senior center and then finally the extreme uncertainty of the ER shift that's now in litigation makes me really

1:33:05concerned about coming to this point um right now but having said that I do I do think that this is a good location for a senior center I think that having a senior center accessible on s paabo Avenue for the bus lines and closer to a BART station and with a flatter terrain

1:33:24is probably and in proximity to City Hall place and fire is probably an ideal location so I mean in a perfect world I would like to see a senior center and and a mix that would support senior housing um at the site I'm just not sure that now's the time for us to move

1:33:41forward and and again maybe it's possible to initiate it now and make assumptions that are flexible enough that we might be able to gain information now that would inform decisions later but those are my thoughts thank you uh there seems to be my comments here but before uh so far

1:34:03we've talked about uh issues that uh would that would come forward on this project for instance what there are different concepts available to us so which which ones which which way do we go on that uh should we have a senior center there or not uh is retail mix use really needed

1:34:26or um appropo at this point I think several of you uh uh had mentioned that um seem to people seem to like the senior housing issue and then uh whether we go forward now or not so I I think then in that kind of generally uh what I'd like to put forward in this discussion it covers um most of that um

1:34:53the the authority is set up to spend money on development we bought the site with housing money therefore um unless we want to pay it back we're pretty well locked into housing so I think that question is fairly well answered it actually answered itself um it it's been over a year on

1:35:13this and uh I guess I'm on the side that I'd like to go forward now to see what type of developer we could get we can always set in the uh criteria that if we don't like what's coming forward we could always delay or if there is um something that suddenly happens that we feel we

1:35:33shouldn't go forward with this we could always stop the process um so I don't think that there's too in the in the request for proposals part of it I don't think um there's a barrier there from from stepping back and saying hey we got to look at it again um the the one reason one of the big

1:35:54reason why I think we should go forward now is this is a long process um if we were to break ground tomorrow it would take probably anywhere from a year to 16 months to construct roughly is the way I look at it if we were to approve tonight and go forward tomorrow it take an uh before

1:36:16construction could even start it would take about a year for entitlements and then planning um then you know the developer making sure that all the funding is is ready to go on that so uh I think the two to four year cycle for the near term is is correct I think

1:36:33staff had indicated that that's what they consider near term two to four years um so I I think the sooner we get started on this the better we don't want to bank the land I think we've had a number of projects like the mayor has said that has not come forward we've

1:36:49probably learned on that and uh I agree we shouldn't go forward if we have those types of roadblocks um looking at us right uh as we go forward uh one thing senior housing is needed and and the Shirley Manor is an example of why there is a market even now for senior housing they

1:37:10have a waiting list and have had a waiting list for a long time I don't see this project being in competition with a surely manner as much as enhancing uh the type of housing that they have U there's some of us that are uh By the time this project is going might

1:37:28need that senior housing so it it might be a good time um the I I think the other reason why um I was encourag that there are developers interested in going forward down at the San Jose uh League of California City's convention that uh some of us attended I actually talked to

1:37:48a developer who has developed uh this type of housing affordable housing in San Pablo and valo among others they're they're Statewide they're all over I asked them Point Blank if they're currently looking and funding and building projects and they said yes um especially when I told them

1:38:09that there was a proposal that we might need some additional senior housing in town um they said that that's the type of project they're looking at and I passed that on to staff but um so it seemed like to me there are developers that would at least consider hopefully consider our our

1:38:29site um the senior center I I originally was real excited uh when this first came up a couple years ago that looking at maybe something like this and and we could do the senior center but even back then I knew that and would like that the senior housing would have to be some and my

1:38:48excuse me the senior center in my opinion would have to be a separate uh facility either um maybe within the same footprint but the design so that it looks like and actually functions at as as its own building and then when I talked with staff um at at the senior

1:39:11center they had indicated that they have seen projects where senior centers and senior housing are one and the same and they don't work for the community they certainly work for the housing project but they don't work for the community so I would think um that anything we do as

1:39:30far as Senior Center would have to have its its own identity it its own building and the hos uh Business Center is set up like that one footprint but it looks like three different buildings so I I kind of thought maybe that uh could work but it looks like it may not be big

1:39:49enough for all that and and uh so I would say unless the senior housing could be its own and there's room for that plus whatever units we need in senior housing uh that maybe that's not going to be possible um of course this project uh as everybody stated will meet our our state

1:40:13requirements for uh towards affordable housing I would like though to uh mention something about the actual con uh the recruitment itself or the uh for a developer I really think that we should have a request for qualifications and leave the proposals out um my my experience in this type of

1:40:39thing is overall it saves time and and money and when you bring on a developer earlier in the conceptual stage um you're act actually acting as a team or there's that greater possibility of doing that uh but also um just hearing again tonight the different concepts I mean

1:41:01we're not really I don't think we're really uh we really know an exact direction to take off on uh therefore if we ask for proposals at this point from all developers we're going to get a midd of proposals and we'll be at the same point here one will say yeah let's do

1:41:21mixed use with that another will say no it's got to be housing and um I just think that um it would be better if we go out for qualifications and pick a qualified developer and of course we we can obviously need to drop the criteria but one of the large criteria is how deep are your pockets

1:41:43and can you go now uh and I think we've learned that at Creekside as well as maybe Mayfair um that we better check that out uh real good before we go forward uh then we could sit down with the developer or the project can and begin to develop these Concepts and we would

1:42:05have one person we're working with that could really pencil out some of these um ideas a and hopefully we could come together on uh a project that makes sense both to the developer and to the city so that's kind of the way I'm looking at it I I do like the type the

1:42:24model type c but um those are my comments on this I'd like to clarify one of my comments because I'm not certain how it fits in with the comments that followed mine um when I said i' would like a Civic use I guess what I'm thinking in whether it's a uh Workforce housing project

1:42:46affordable housing project or a senior housing I do believe that there needs to be as part of of that um structure an area and maybe it's only 2 to 3,000 square ft that provides services um to the community and ideally to the targeted Community that's in the in the structure so whether it's senior

1:43:06housing because there are when I um as part of the senior center uh rebuild process went and interviewed the senior seniors there's a whole um parcel of services that we provide that are are are basic beautification basic health basic um Financial Services uh that that

1:43:30are services that are being provided to that to that uh Community the senior community that aren't necessarily an active senior uh component and so when there there's discussion about whether or not to put a senior center here there are certain services that the senior

1:43:47community needs that that's what I'm looking for is that Civic use um so let's say it's you know a room where you could do basic medical procedures like toenail clipping or uh beautification in an earthquake that same room could be used by the community as a triage Center by the fire

1:44:08department that's here in the same neighborhood so that's the type of Civic use space that I'm looking for in that ground floor um and that space could be used in moderate housing for education or Reemployment or other types of services if it's you know Workforce

1:44:25moderate housing type daycare something like that um service so I'm that's the type of Civic use that I'm looking for in the struct structure um uh agency member Jones your idea of picking a a developer that we then work with is very intriguing because then we don't have to give guidance between

1:44:47affordable housing and senior housing tonight correct um we we don't have to necessarily give guidance between all residential or residential with commercial involved um so it's very intriguing and and does um have lots of merits in my mind great okay where do we

1:45:08actually Where Do We Go From Here staff has asked for direction uh I don't think we're ready to give a real definitive Direction but I think we can go forward and May and maybe decide on how a request whether we want to go out for request for now or wait or whether and

1:45:23if if we go out now what type of uh proposal or requests are we looking for yeah just to build on agency member aon's comment now is the best time to build so if we can build in the next year this this is certainly the time we want to be building so um I don't think

1:45:41my comments were intended to delay a solicitation um but certainly 08 miles from Bart is is something that we should be looking at and we should not be excluding mixed use if that's what someone tells us is a potential viable use of it correct good any comments uh on where we head or

1:46:04conclude how we conclude this am I hearing that you're saying that you're comfortable going out for a request for qualifications for a mixed juice project and to see what kind of ideas come forward or I was a little bit confused about might what I was suggesting is

1:46:22that we go out for qu requests for qualifications on developers and then we pick a developer and then and then we start the conversation with them which would involve I'm sure uh a variety of uh input mechanisms on which project on on what concept we should go forward with

1:46:42and I think if we have a developer on as we go on they can analyze the economics of it and the feasibility of it and um how much money or if there is a need to put in a contribution from the agency besides land so um it's things like that but we could do that with one person not

1:47:05five or six or two three what whoever we get proposals from well the there are a couple things on that one is some developers specialize in one particular type of project and others de another so if we go out for developers without even knowing what kind of project we want to

1:47:29do um that would exclude the specialty we need an affordable heal it seems like we need to we need to say something about what it is we want because we need to have the right um specialty in terms of developers looking at the project if we um if we decide later that we wanted

1:47:49to go um for all housing and yet we've attracted a developer that doesn't do housing for example that wouldn't be a good mix so we need to there's there's you know there's um I think we need to have some sense of what we want to do I'm not hearing anybody saying we don't want

1:48:10housing I think we're required to do an affordable housing project that under our zoning that we need to have a mix use component and if we want to change that we I think need to postpone and do a general plan Amendment before we can move forward with Direction that's

1:48:26counter to our our policy document well what I would be really interested in doing following up on what you're saying is to um look at what changes we might have to make in um in the general plan or wherever in order to um make um changes to the type of projects that we do in this project and

1:48:53maybe others um that would produce projects that are more I'll use terms like Innovative um environmentally friendly thing you know whatever we could probably develop a whole list of criteria for that um and um what would it take to do that to do what process what change and what rules that of the

1:49:17city that we have would we have to make in order to make that work I would be that would that I think would be interesting as long as we could afford to pay for that process I understand go ahead just city manager and I are both sitting here thinking debating who's

1:49:36going to jump in um with just as a reminder to the board that the city is in the process of working its way through uh San Pablo area specific plan that really is addressing a lot of these issues and will provide the council you sitting as the the council with an

1:49:50opportunity to make a lot of these kinds of decisions about what the shape of um development along uh San Pablo should look like and as a part of that while you wouldn't want to adopt General regulations based on um The council's View on what to do with the property next door you will have an

1:50:11opportunity as you're going through it to say well you know it needs to be mixed use on San Pablo with a combination of residential and commercial but if it has some these components than it could be only residential or it could be only commercial or this is an opportunity for

1:50:26you to carve out some exceptions for that not just for this project but for other types of projects that may come along that would fit so you know don't lose sight of the fact that that you're not completely constrained in um deciding how you want to develop the

1:50:41agency's property by the existing regulations that you will actually have an opportunity sitting as the council to um develop new regulations for for property like the one that that the agency is looking to redevelop Mr Woodruff does does that Bode does that support um chair

1:50:59Jones's um director Jones's uh position of potentially going out on qualifications we say we're selecting qualifications for a developer of a affordable housing project with services and a using a weather term likely chance of mixed use well I would say that that

1:51:21you as the agency board would want to define the type of project that you would like to see with an understanding that since the specific plan is a legislative document that you when you take off your agency hats and put on your city council hats will have an opportunity to actually

1:51:38determine what the outcome is if that makes sense and so I guess affordable affordable housing includes senior housing yes affordable housing with Services is a is a type of project that hatlin is doing so that's a very clear Direction affordable housing with a

1:51:56strong chance of mixed use is that enough of a scope for us to select qualific based on qualifications I believe it is as long as we're clear that any mixed use component has to finance itself we have to be clear that that is that mixed use component something that the developers

1:52:19responsible for all I was trying to say is I'm not comfortable going out for uh qualifications for housing only um solicitation when we way may well in fact end up with a re an office use or retail use so we might as well cast The Net broad enough that when we bring them

1:52:37in we have more um choices I yeah I think in my opinion we we could make it'll be clear when the proposals come in those that are interested in their qualifications um we may I don't know that it would restrict us to eventually getting to a specialty I mean somebody could come in who's a

1:53:07specialist on senior housing just develop senior housing and if they're a good developer maybe we work with them also U agreements can be structured so that at any um there may be a time where the developer in the city then don't see eye to eye on it and there there can be

1:53:24an ex an escape time where you can say gez you know it was great but it doesn't look like we match up and then we could go to our second choice but um I'm with I'm with the mayor on this one I I don't know that we should Define ourselves so narrow right now um I I I don't know

1:53:45where our advantage is on that well well I think we have to discern I think we do have to make some decision about whether it's going to be affordable housing or market rate housing so that actually those are completely different developers so I actually do think we

1:54:02have to make that kind of guidance that's not a problem but I thought we have to go affordable that's what we bought this is housing fund yeah so we have to go affordable housing on this if if we marketed it I mean correct me if I'm wrong but if we could Market the

1:54:18property and pay back of the um the the agency if we can't if somebody came forward and said we want to build all market rate here and we're willing to pay you this much money we could pay back the the housing fund I don't I don't really support that because the whole intention acquiring

1:54:37the property was to build the affordable housing and to meet to make progress towards the abag housing goals and to fulfill our fiveyear um housing element you're you're only supporting what I'm saying which is I think we have to design would want to to try and select

1:54:51developers that are knowledgeable about affordable housing yeah I think that's what we had suggested affordable housing with mixed use consistent with the requirements of Redevelopment law in our planning documents right I would be comfortable if we said possible mixed

1:55:07use um the mixed use component has been quite a failure well the thing is if we go out to bid and that's I mean go out for the qualifications then that in order to select we need a criteria that's consistent I think Scott has can I try take a shot um but what what I heard and I guess what I would

1:55:33suggest is we would go out for request for qualifications for an affordable housing complex uh project with a senior Focus that has flexibility on the ground floor uh as much as as much as we can Define that could be Flex space that would ultimately could be designed

1:55:55depending on where the market is but I want to stress what Hildy said you know the affordable housing developer is not going to eat that um eat that cost so if if there's a retail market and they want they want to have a retail component in it that would be you would factor in

1:56:12lease Revenue but what I'm hearing is there would be when when we say mixed use component it could be depending on the economics a senior center part of a senior center it could be a medical supply store that supports the housing above it could be a social service use that supports the

1:56:32housing or other things but you try to design the ground floor with some amount of flexibility that could be you know anything from condominium IED to leased back um but the consistent theme I'm I was hearing and trying to pull together was afford senior housing affordable uh

1:56:49go now rather than wait um and do the best we can to have something in addition on the ground floor and if ultimately that just doesn't pencil that'll be a decision the board will get to make and say do you still want to go together but that also is going to have

1:57:07to go along with whatever comes out of the specific plan process which may or may not be consistent with a residential only uh project is that well I heard correct me if if I'm wrong uh during your question and answer period you defined mixed use as the bottom floor

1:57:26being non-residential correct still here um so that gives us a lot of flexibility there's a lot of flexibility and and again the specific plan process happening in the middle of this does add there there is some rationale that developer is going to want the certainty

1:57:50of what is the specific plan going to say because by the time the developer comes up for entitlements that will be what is in effect I was just going to say that again you're it's not set in stone yet what mixed use means because the specific plan is going to actually

1:58:06alter that and for example um you know the that it could be written in a way that would say you know it needs to include um commercial unless um you know it's a it's a a senior it includes senior housing plus afford level of affordability in which case we'd excuse

1:58:23the requirement for including a commercial component and instead something else could be done on the ground floor I mean that's that's the kind of thing that you can do to design not just the specific plan not just for this project but to sort of ensure that all the development that occurs within

1:58:37the specific plan area is consistent with what the council wants to see okay so let me suggest we can go out we can put disclaimers like everybody else does in their agreements about the possibility of the criteria changing a little bit but I think um the specific

1:58:55plan was supposed to start hitting our our radar at the end of the month no I mean end of the year excuse me November it'll be here next month for Council study session study session right so I I anticipate a decision somewhere between January and March of next year uh of

1:59:15acceptance if the specific plan is approved approved I'm I'm assuming it's going to be somewhere between January and March and I really don't think the uh working through a a uh a request for qualifications and then working with a developer that the developer is going to

1:59:35have a plan ready to go for consideration before the specific plan is over we could take a look at what the specific plan is and ask the developer to make any adjustments to meet that plan um so I I don't know that there's a danger going forward now and just so long as we

1:59:55let the developer know that we have the uh the general plan in place now we may have there may be a specific plan coming that might alter things a little bit so I don't know how you feel about that but I I don't I feel comfortable going forward with something like that I I

2:00:14don't want to delay here's the thing we have a lot of project have had a lot of projects in town that we've said well let's wait for this let's wait for this let's wait for this and and it drags I think if we get going we will force the issue we will we will be able to come up

2:00:31with a final solution rather than waiting for a final solution I if we're serious about this I say we get going so I would I guess have you take a straw poll if you've got consensus on with regards to going out for an RFQ or if we're going out for a project because I think want to go out

2:00:49now given that the specific plan is still up in the air I could support going out for an RFQ with affordable housing with a senior focus and flexibility on the ground floor that was stated it seems to summarize the um wishes of the board as well as allow room for the eventual approval of the

2:01:07sampao Avenue plan agreed looks like that's your direction anything else before we go on I'll turn it back to the mayor okay we're now on item 7B and we'll have a staff report from the finance director Mary Dodge on the proposition onea securitization program good evening Madame mayor

2:01:32members of the council I'm Mary Dodge the administrative Services director and I'm here tonight recommending Council adopt a resolution and the required documents to participate in the proposition 1A securization program in this program California communities I

2:01:49joint Powers Authority will purchase the cities receiv receivable from the state of California due to the borrowing of 8% or $668,000 of property tax this will be at no cost to the city for some background on this issue I'm sure you're all aware proposition 1A was

2:02:08passed by the voters in 2004 for the purpose of protecting local revenues and could only be suspended due to a fiscal emergency declared by the governor and then two3 vote by the legislature in July of 2009 prop 1A was suspended as part of the 910 budget in the one action being the

2:02:31borrowing of 8% of local government property taxes and for ELO this amounts to a receivable from the staff state of approximately 668,000 the state will be required to repay this by June 30th 2012 2013 at a rate of 2% in order to help local governments maintain their cash flow and reduce the

2:02:54risk of not collecting funds from the state California communities a jpa has developed this program where they will buy the receivables from local governments that choose to participate and sell the bonds at an amount to pay the local government property tax and

2:03:11recover the cost of the bond issued this means we would receive their funds at the same time on schedule and at the ex ex act amount we would have had before suspension of prop 1A as of October 13th 2009 approximately 1100 agencies have enrolled in this program the number is comprised of 57

2:03:32counties 352 cities in 707 Special Districts jez so some good news at this time at the time your packets were printed uh we were still waiting for Senate Bill 67 to be passed by the legislature it uh it was passed unanimously on October 15th and is on the governor's desk right now the

2:03:53purpose of prop of s67 is to clean up the language related to the prop 1A suspension and allow for this bond issue to take place we are anticipating the signing of the bill any day uh in order to participate in this program a fully executed purchase and sale agreement and Council resolution

2:04:12must be submitted to the transaction Council oric Sutliff by November 6th and the bond closes is estimated to be on November 19th we would receive our funds as we would have if they were distributed by the county on January 15th and on May 3rd the pricing of the bonds will be

2:04:31interesting to watch there has been some skepticism voiced on the ability of these bonds to sell but with the number of participants there also seems to be a certain amount of confidence if the bonds do not sell the city will be out no funds and would still have some level

2:04:48of risk the same same reel level of risk they had on the receivable from the state there is no cost to participate even if the bonds do not sell so with that I would ask the council to consider my recommendation to approve the resolution and the agreement and we'll be happy to answer any

2:05:08questions um M DOD although the financial Advisory Board did not make any um recommendations or actions on this they did discuss it at point and I was wondering if you would uh elaborate on their discussion to the best of your memory it was uh brought up uh by myself

2:05:27as just a staff report at the most recent Fab meeting because the timing of this having it have to go to or carington by the 6th we were not really able to fully agendize the thing they have been aware all along about prop 1A we have discussed before the concept of

2:05:45securing this loan and since there is relative really no risk to the city with the program and there is more risk without it uh they had discussed it as a reasonable program right my my memory is that in our July meeting we did discuss it and I think we even calculated out

2:06:02what 2% was and you know it's some small amount of money to eliminate the risk of the state not paying us back there was General consensus that it was worth your researching um and that was in the July time frame so I I although the financial Advisory Board did not take an action to to review or

2:06:22support or or anything like that I believe that um there was some general support of the idea I also believe that the 2% uh that the state finally determined was that was going to be the rate of interest on this didn't happen until uh after our July meeting and I'm

2:06:40I'm afraid that at the time I had considered it the maximum that it could pay out was 6% so we were all considering the fact that we could be making a potential 6% on the $668,000 then the state came back and put it at a 2% which we discussed uh at the other meeting right now 2% is

2:07:00probably uh average earings in our portfolio on a on a good day thank you so um in summation what would be the downside of doing this conceivably in any way shape or form um if we choose to go with the program um there is no cost to enroll if we no but what are the

2:07:23negatives just just the negatives uh there there really is uh no risk we we lose the earning of 2% on our money over the two the three years or whatever it is it's very small amount of money if I can't if if the investment program does not earn more than 2% in um

2:07:43the next three years we would have lost the difference between that earnings and the 2% we would have got from the the state and and right now 2% is about but I believe within the next few years our rates will be definitely higher than 2% so I have another question um this is

2:07:58the one a that um for that was save the cities from the state taking over our funds as I remember um they the um the conditions of that measure were that the state can only borrow twice in 10 years and they can't borrow the second time unless they paid off the first time how does that fit in with

2:08:23this um if if at all well essentially the state would still have the same requirements once we have sold our receivable it's just basically we're discounting a note only we are doing it at uh 100 cents on the dollar but is that using up one of their borrowings absolutely good they they've still done

2:08:42the borrowing it still has to be repaid and it has to be repaid within three years thank you Mr Jones yes all I said I really think we the only issue here is whether we get our money now or do we wait and make 2% which is what 138 or something along those lines really I I personally I think

2:09:03that's the only issue thank you may I make a motion yes please I move that uh we adopt a resolution approving the form of and authorizing the exe e execution and delivery of a purchase and sale agreement and related documents with respect to the sale of the sellers or the cities proposition 1A

2:09:26receivable from the state and directing and authorizing certain other actions in connection therewith second it's been moved and seconded all in favor I I oppose motion carries with the four presents and we now have item 7 C which is a contract for emergency work across

2:09:48cross and under St John's Church property and we'll have a staff report okay thank you I think we're up and running um I'm Jerry Bradshaw Public Works director um this is is um an item um about a failed storm drain and up on the screen I have a a snapshot of our storm drain

2:10:28Maps um just to orient Orient you this is San paabo Avenue running North and South this is Kerney Street back behind the um St John's Church complex which is in this area right here um the storm draining question is this shown through here this is a map drawn in the 70s and

2:10:47then r revised in the80s where it shows a detour put in and then a note that says it was put back in its original configuration some 25 30 years ago if I slide in the aerial drawings underneath the storm drain system you see the St John's complex which runs clear up off the picture here uh next

2:11:13door is this uh strip shopping center and the stern r pipe runs right along behind the strip shopping center and right past this wall here of this two-story residential structure in the St John's parcel um again oops sorry to make you dizzy there uh the current collapse is right

2:11:42in this area here it's about a 10t section of it and this is about a 100t length that is all of the identical construction to the part that collapsed this is a photograph taking taken a few weeks ago um originally was thought to be an irrigation leak or problem and someone started digging

2:12:07through the yard and the yard collapsed into the storm drain uh from what we could tell at the time this grade out area is approximately where this 4T wide storm drain structure ran through there the side of the structure fell in and the dirt washed into the storm drain

2:12:26there this is looking East towards Kerney if you turn around look the other way this is the same scene looking towards San Pabo Avenue out there through that carport area and then if you go out on S Pabo Avenue that the storm rain structure travels out underneath the um the the

2:12:46state rideway this portion out here is not damaged it's a completely different type of construction and is not at risk at this point this is a picture from the inside of the Box covert this thing is 4T wide about 5T tall it has a domed top to it but of course you notice right away

2:13:06there's a piece of the sidew wall missing and this side is broken and leaning badly and a chunk of it has already fallen in I've never seen a failure you're quite like this usually box coverts are pretty inert structures um it's hard to say how this was built in order for it

2:13:25to fail this way but it is what we're have in front of us at this point this is another picture from inside the Box covert the fail section is Downstream about 30 40 ft but you can see here where it hasn't failed that there is a conspicuous construction joint along

2:13:43these side walls which is uh lines up exactly where where that one section f fell out uh just one more example of some um inferior construction back in the day this incidentally is where the Dome top to the Box covert what you're seeing here is the 48 in concrete pipe that was

2:14:04installed some 25 years ago when they replaced a portion of that and this is a picture you don't have in your packet this is one I actually took this morning and what this shows is that the alignment of the Box covert doesn't run beside the structure it actually runs directly under the

2:14:21foundations of that structure uh that was kind of a surprise to us when we actually um started Excavating opening this up to see what we had something else we noticed is that in the failed section there was no bottom to this box CT and where that went we can only

2:14:38speculate but over the years it has um crumbled out and probably sunk down into cavities as the water washed around the outside of the pipe so um what you see here is uh on Thursday after I put together your packet um we we we found the alignment of this pipe we realized we weren't

2:14:58going to be able to uh remove this section of box covert in this last 40 ft of travel out to San paabo Avenue without some major work on the structure so we um did some checking around we were actually able to find a type of pipe that would be large enough to handle the capacity of water we have

2:15:17coming down the storm drain yet would fit inside of that box covert uh we had some of this 48 in on hand the corrugated um highdensity polyethylene pipe but we're able to procure another section to slide in underneath that so since we had this open up ready to go I

2:15:35and we had the rain forecast for today I gave the go ahead Friday or Thursday to go ahead and install this section of pipe since it was already opened up just to explore what we had so this is what I found this morning when we came in um the section of pipe so we're actually

2:15:51quite a ways along in the repair there's still a lot of work to do filling in the sections patching everything together it does carry water at this point but it still has a lot of work and not to mention the restoration of their their Courtyard area there that's uh a tour of the physical

2:16:09situation out there uh what we're asking tonight is to uh make findings that indicate um that there is considerable risk un it's kind of unknown at this point exactly how much risk is is involved but this twostory structure um you can't quite see it but there is a a

2:16:30second story Above This carport um could be um at some considerable risk at this point and as we evaluated what we thought the the design and the the requirements to put this into a biddable state and send it out to bid could take as much as 10 weeks when you include advertising time

2:16:52uh considering bids bring it to council for a Ward and U get the contract signed and get the contractor actually going probably about a 10- we period if we really hustle and we felt like with winter coming on it really was not prudent to to wait that long and in

2:17:08addition the the the peculiarities of this box covert underneath the foundation of this structure I think lended itself really to a collaborative design effort to try and figure out um what the elements were what uh types of solutions there were not just engineering but also contractors who

2:17:26knew how to get that stuff done so we did Pitch in with a collaborate effort as we got going and as you see we were able to come up with I think a fairly reasonable solution the work we've done so far is under the authority that the city manager has to um set work um a

2:17:43foot without bidding up to a $30,000 limit so we probably spent most of that that by now just getting this excavated um the the legal issues here um there is and I won't do it justice I can certainly turn over to the City attorney but there is uh room in the law

2:18:01to make findings and to wave competitive bidding when it's in the best interest of the city to do so um there's a lot of more technical aspects to that but I'll leave it at that this point I think you pretty well demonstrated that uh nature of this emergency especially as we enter

2:18:20into the beginning of the raining season I think Mr Lyman has a comment I I have a couple of concerns actually um the term the technical term for what you're proposing is slip lining the existing uh box Culvert with a with probably a um different type of like a highdensity

2:18:37polyethylene pipe that's smooth walled into instead of corrugated um however I am concerned you know looking at this this Photograph that's up there is a foundation on the box and my concern is the structural Integrity of the Box even with the slip lined pipe in it um are you going to be

2:18:59backfilling the annulus with additional concrete or um or do we have some recourse against the building owner for building on top of the pipe because I am concerned that this structure is going to see settling over time time if we aren't addressing this an unusual

2:19:21structural nature that the box has to carry as a result of their building um we are planning to U fill that gap between the slip line pipe and the original box with concrete and that will only strengthen what is already there and the shape of the pipe circular is the strongest shape there is you feel

2:19:41that Gap the the box cover becomes fairly inert although it does enhance the structure of the pipe high density polyethylene pipe is actually quite strong itself when you Cal out the loading of a two story structure is really not that heavy um it would it works fine with this especially with a

2:20:01concrete shroud around it encased in this box cover so we're quite comfortable that it does only enhance what's out there today um as far as the legal issues of of who's first who did what there we don't we don't find a of all that at this point and um can you tell us is the um you your testimony was

2:20:24that the invert the concrete invert of the portion that you've currently replaced with the corrugated high density polyethylene was missing is that true of the section that's underneath this the building Foundation as well no that that bottom is still there the

2:20:39bottom was missing primarily where the walls fell in and that may have been why the wells walls fell in as that bottom went away um we did remove it back Upstream to where it joins the 48 inch pipe that's relatively new so we're able to smooth out the flow line so that

2:20:55would ride up on top of the floor you know as much as the wall thickness of the pipe so hydraulically it works but but your your earlier photograph shows the a very irregular cold what looks like a cold joint in the sidew wall of the Box Culvert which of course is going

2:21:11to lead to a structural deficiency so it's pretty evident that in this given condition that there is um a high risk to building damage as a result of the current box Culvert in its current state so um I definitely think we should be moving forward to protect our um our

2:21:36structures I think Mr woodr had something to add on the legal aspects I'll keep it brief I was just going to add that that I mean given the time frame that was available to us we certainly weren't able to establish I think there's a there's a paragraph in your staff report that even outlines the

2:21:50the the lack of information that we have about this what we were able to identify is that it is public storm drain water that's passing through this beyond that and we were able to dig up some of the history of repairs not in this area but but but but adjacent to it and and given

2:22:05that you know we've decided that the city should proceed to make the repairs um there may be you know diminishing returns and doing research my experience in these kinds of situations is past a certain point they're just aren't documents available and so whether or

2:22:19not um the owners of whether or not the church building is is you know violating a city easement or who was in first and those kinds of questions we we may be able to resolve but we may not be to any in in a way that's economically that makes economic sense but I'll certainly

2:22:34work with the public works director on trying to see what we can find out about that okay what I just want to clarify where the break is where the uh where the Box Culvert is yeah is it right where the building is or is it off is the 10 foot section away from the building the 10-ft

2:22:58section is approximately where you see this gravel that was dumped over the pipe that's the approximate location of where the failure was okay and you had indicated though that there's 100 foot that you felt needed strengthening or or repaired is that underneath part of that

2:23:15100 ft underneath the building yes what you're looking at is about 50 ft of pipe there's a little bit at my feet too 50 ft of of open pipe and then about 40 to 45 ft of of box covert that is still currently intact that we could use as a shell to slip line through so that's the

2:23:34approximate 100 ft will be cured at the end of this process and we've had Engineers look at this if we put in the we put in what we want to put in plus concrete around it they're satisfied that that'll Shore up the footings underneath and and we won't have damage to the existing structure

2:23:58it's it's difficult to say with certainty certainly what we're doing won't won't degrade what's out there and it will enhance what's out there um I do believe we haven't U you know there's really no way to be certain what the strength of the Box covert is at this

2:24:13point but I do believe that with the pipe and the surrounding structure around it that it should easily hold up the weight of that building okay so we um we're being asked to make a decision about going forward with emergency repairs on this situation which seems fairly urgent and

2:24:33um we also are being asked to do that without a competitive bid so I'm wondering if there's a motion move to adopt a resolution adopting findings authorizing the negotiation and execution of a contract in the amount not to exceed $200,000 and uh appropriating necessary

2:24:57funds for emergency work to repair a potentially dangerous storm drain system across and under the St John's Church property at uh 11140 San Pablo Avenue the resolution must also that uh it should be stated that the resolution must be approved by four fifths vote of the city council so

2:25:20it would have to be a unanimous vote tonight okay okay there's been a motion second and it's been seconded all in favor I I opposed do you need a roll call vote okay it is approved with the four votes necessary for passage thank you and finally tonight we have item

2:25:40eight the council Le is on reports so traditionally we start with Mr Lyman Let's Do It um I have two to report on on the October 13th Financial Advisory board meeting um the financial Advisory Board uh considered and recommended uh new language for the financial Advisory

2:25:58Board uh resolution and so they that is something that they will be um bringing forward when it's convenient um but they will be uh operating under a minor modifications to their current U direction from Council um and they have made very good progress on the reserve policy uh criteria for a

2:26:21reserve policy that uh was requested in the June uh budget setting on October 14th the crime prevention committee met um and their uh meeting focused on discussing the goals and scope of the crime prevention committee and they initiated excellent dialogue between the

2:26:40crime prevention committee members uh City staff and the police department in supporting of programs and events uh so they're now looking at um their charge as programs and events and the events that they're focusing on uh for example our 4th of July bicycle safety day Tri

2:26:59safety day and um the Beloved National Night Out but some of the programs that they really would like to focus on um includes the neighborhood watch and the um home security uh uh inspections so uh that's um what they they're going to focus on those two programs uh and with

2:27:22continued interest in the events um I will take this opportunity if for those who are still watching to remind you that we are still looking for members of the U crime for the crime prevention committee so if you're interested in joining us please U send it go to our

2:27:39website pull down the application and U send your application in thank you thank you thank you um the um I mentioned earlier some of the activities of the Environmental Quality committee at our uh last meeting um a lot of work was done preparing for and Reporting out

2:28:02about how that event would go so there was a lot of organizational work that was done to make Saturday's event happen and um so a lot of discussion was around that the other thing is there is uh we're working on an environmental movie series um and um that should result in a

2:28:24um movie in the in sometime this fall and um let's see I think that's oh the other thing is that um the climate action planning and Outreach committee um also met and that will that committee will be working on our climate action plan um and you may have noticed from I think

2:28:49it was our um the bulletin that went out that uh we will be doing public Outreach as a city um with the community over the next year about the climate action plan so they'll be working on that just a couple things uh the Planning Commission did not meet in September so I don't have a uh a report

2:29:14but we are meeting this week actually this week so hopefully uh there'll be something to report on Planning Commission and the uh joint Powers Authority for the Gilman Street Sports Complex will be meeting also this week and we hope hope that there's some progress on the issue and concern that

2:29:34uh council member ablon or protim ablon brought up last uh meeting about parking just briefly I want to acknowledge the arts and culture commission for their involvement in the various activities um this weekend especially the reception for the black and white photographs that are at City

2:29:53Hall um I also wanted to let the council know that the human relations commission had not met for the for at least six months in the first half of the year and they eventually um were able to gain three members and had met three times and I recently received the resignation

2:30:11of one of the newest members to that committee so I would like to ask um for staff to develop a status report for us and report back to the council in the near future on recruitment for the human relations commission a review of the existing structure and possible

2:30:30alternatives for the future so that we're able to maintain our programming related to the human relations commission particularly the Martin Luther King Parade which is going to be in January in the face of the lack of Quorum for that body so um just want to let you guys know that we

2:30:48really have been struggling to bring the community together and I wanted to mention to folks who might be still watching that when you do go to our website and you're interested in Boards of commissions you need to go first to the government and click there and then

2:31:01you'll get an option to click on boards and commissions and from there you'll have a description of all the boards and commission and the application so um that's just one of the aspects of the website to help navigate through that so that concludes the um sta uh Council

2:31:17Leia's own reports and with that uh we will adjourn to our next regularly scheduled meeting which will be on November 2nd